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Offering Starter loans up to 250mill each collateralized
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Werner Ross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-11-24 16:03:15 UTC
Hi all,

Im quite new to the game, but I have always played economic/simulation and strategy games. I have bought a few plex's (RL cash) and im looking to become a bank in the future when I build up some repore and a large personal capital to finance the bank without having the need for investors although I will not rule out that I will never allow investors into the bank.

If you want a starter loan contact me through the in-game Mail (faster response if you do).

I then will send you a list of possible ''products'' with the different interest rates. All loans are collateralized (how much depends on your loan amount).

Kind regards,

Werner Ross,
Xtreem
Knockaround Guys Inc.
#2 - 2015-11-24 16:13:18 UTC
Might be helpful to add some more information.

What level of collateral are you willing to accept? IE 90% of loan, 110% of loan etc
Are the interest rates reflected by the level of collateral? IE lower interest rates for higher levels of collateral
If someone were to supply for example a much higher collateral in exchange for a lower rate what assurances do they have in place you won't just take the collateral? for example a freighter for a 250mil loan.
What are these "products" I can't see how many variances you could provide given the simple collateralized loans you are offering.
Dethmourne Silvermane
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#3 - 2015-11-24 16:18:40 UTC
WILL PLEDGE 15B.

Interested Party (TM)
Raizelle
5lingshot
#4 - 2015-11-24 16:22:55 UTC
Banks + EVE = Bad

Loans + EVE = Work ok, you won't make a fortune.

You could put your isk to much better use and a much greater return by trading.

Good luck to you.




Werner Ross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-11-24 16:53:51 UTC
I am only looking for fair value.

What level of collateral are you willing to accept?
If people want to use big collateral it is their own choice but I will accept any collateral starting at 90% of the loan amount.

Are the interest rates reflected by the level of collateral?
Interest rates are reflected in the period they want to take the loan out for. If they want 3 months to pay me back, they will pay me a higher % of interest because I will have those assets frozen for a longer time naturally then when they pay me back in a week. I am also looking into making the interest rates more fair for smaller loans but I have not worked this out yet.

If someone were to supply for example a much higher collateral in exchange for a lower rate what assurances do they have in place you won't just take the collateral?
Unfortunately I can't give any real life kind of guarantees. I can only prove myself by having a few people trust me to let me prove it. But keep in mind: the loans will be done through either contracts or trades (that way people can choose what they think is safest). By the way if you know a better method please contact me, I am open to new things because I really want to get this going.

The kinds of products I am going to provide in the future will include Loans, Savings accounts.

The variaties are not all done yet, but the ones I already have in mind are the following(keep in mind these are based on the concept of a bank not the small scale test I am doing right now for proof of concept:

Savings Accounts:
1. Regular: Interest(Up to 0.75%) is paid monthly. Account can be cleared out at any time with a waiting time of 24 hours maximum for payment at this time.

2. Set Period & Amount: Interest(Up to 2.50%) is added semi-annually by DNB. These types of savings accounts are for periods of at least 6 months. This means your money won't be accessible before the 6 months are over. After a period of at least 6 months is passed a customer could create a new savings account if they are satisfied. Pay-out on these savings accounts are at the end of the last day of the set period(23:59 EVE time at the latest).

3. Flexible Period & Set Amount: Interest (Up to 1.25%) is added monthly. Account can be cleared out with 3 weeks notice.(this product would be like the 2nd one only the money won't be locked up for 6 months and this is why the highest interest possible on this product is lower then the 2nd product but higher then the first)

Loans:

1. Loans between 0-50 million: Interest paid by customer will be 3% each week (paid 1 week up front). For example: Take a loan out with me today I will collect the first interest by retracting it from the loaned amount, this way people with loans do not have to worry about the interest if they want to pay it back and be done with it as long ofcourse as they paid the rest of the interest on time.

2. Loans between 50-150 million: Interest paid by customer will be 3.5% each week (paid 1 week up front). Works the same as the first one mentioned above.

3. Loans between 150-250 million: Interest paid by customer will be 4% each week (paid 1 week up front).

Keep in mind that if the small scale proof of concept is succesful I will think about more products and more diversity but at this time it is nothing more then a proof of concept and see if I don't get scammed myself (which is also a possibility for the people who think that only they risk their money).


Hope to have answered most of your concerns. If you have any more questions or if you need better answers then please ask me specifically.

By the way, it might help if I introduce myself:

My name is Werner, I am from The Netherlands and I finished a commercial study (targeted on retail-business). I have had accounting and business/commercial economics as well as different kinds of management and a bit of law (mostly business related law). Granted, I will never start my own accounting firm or anything like that, but I do intent to start my own business when the economy in my branch becomes more stable(or I should come up with some unique selling point that is an actual game changer).

Kind regards,

Werner,
Werner Ross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-11-24 16:59:16 UTC
Raizelle wrote:
Banks + EVE = Bad

Loans + EVE = Work ok, you won't make a fortune.

You could put your isk to much better use and a much greater return by trading.

Good luck to you.






Not looking to score big, Just looking to proof my concept and see if I can actually get a good and FAIR bank up and running in EVE. (I like challenges in these kinds of matters).

Also I can pledge right now that I will not hire/use people that do not at least possess the basics of accounting in positions where they can access the bank's funds (if my proof of concept is succesful and I get the bank up and running)
Cista2
EVE Museum
#7 - 2015-11-24 17:08:28 UTC
Werner Ross wrote:

If people want to use big collateral it is their own choice but I will accept any collateral starting at 90% of the loan amount.

You will want to think this through. If a ship is worth 225 mil, you don't want to loan unknown players 250 mil based on that, because soon you will have more ships than ISK. Hint: and they won't want those ships back, they will just buy a new one for 225 mil.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Werner Ross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-11-24 17:15:12 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Werner Ross wrote:

If people want to use big collateral it is their own choice but I will accept any collateral starting at 90% of the loan amount.

You will want to think this through. If a ship is worth 225 mil, you don't want to loan unknown players 250 mil based on that, because soon you will have more ships than ISK. Hint: and they won't want those ships back, they will just buy a new one for 225 mil.


Thank you for the heads-up.

I will think about a better system for the collateral. Would something in this direction work?:

Any collateral can be suggested, but has to be reviewed by me(or later after proof of concept), or a qualified employee. If the collateral is not sufficient the loan will be denied until a new collateral is put up for review.

Werner,
Cista2
EVE Museum
#9 - 2015-11-24 19:01:20 UTC
You should have a low interest rate for collateralised loans. Anyone can get a collateralised loan from the board at 2% so you cannot really go any higher than that for a start. With 2-3% you should get some clients because they are small loans, which sometimes go at higher rate.

Also, consider this thread nothing more a discussion thread. To get any actual business, you need to present your terms sharply.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Werner Ross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-11-24 20:00:36 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
You should have a low interest rate for collateralised loans. Anyone can get a collateralised loan from the board at 2% so you cannot really go any higher than that for a start. With 2-3% you should get some clients because they are small loans, which sometimes go at higher rate.

Also, consider this thread nothing more a discussion thread. To get any actual business, you need to present your terms sharply.


Ye the things im telling here are all based on the ideas i had so far. But ill work on a document in the coming period of time so I can just show people how and what etc.

Google docs should be alright i guess.

Kind regards,

Werner,
Jerry T Pepridge
Meta Game Analysis and Investment INC.
#11 - 2015-11-24 23:59:58 UTC
Hi Werner,

Welcome to MD meta gaming.

I'm afraid the demand for small loans just isnt there. unless you want to fend off the idiots trying to scam you. Been around a bit & can tell you similar small loan offers have come & gone with barely any actual loans booked.

if you want to offer loans, i suggest wait until a reasonable bond/loan request comes up and fill it.

Also, what makes you sure you can offer savings accounts, when you admitted to buying your ISK with RL & not actually having any experience making isk in game? - its alot work work for roleplay purposes.

@JerryTPepridge
Werner Ross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-11-25 10:15:26 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Hi Werner,

Welcome to MD meta gaming.

I'm afraid the demand for small loans just isnt there. unless you want to fend off the idiots trying to scam you. Been around a bit & can tell you similar small loan offers have come & gone with barely any actual loans booked.

if you want to offer loans, i suggest wait until a reasonable bond/loan request comes up and fill it.

Also, what makes you sure you can offer savings accounts, when you admitted to buying your ISK with RL & not actually having any experience making isk in game? - its alot work work for roleplay purposes.


Because I will only take on a few at first. and depending on what kind someone would like/need, I will always have the ISK to pay back.

1. Regular: Interest(Up to 0.75%) is paid monthly. Account can be cleared out at any time with a waiting time of 24 hours maximum for payment at this time. (these I will keep the isk on hand)

2. Set Period & Amount: Interest(Up to 2.50%) is added semi-annually by DNB. These types of savings accounts are for periods of at least 6 months. This means your money won't be accessible before the 6 months are over. After a period of at least 6 months is passed a customer could create a new savings account if they are satisfied. Pay-out on these savings accounts are at the end of the last day of the set period(23:59 EVE time at the latest). (These I plan to use max of 50% of the ISK to generate cash.)

3. Flexible Period & Set Amount: Interest (Up to 1.25%) is added monthly. Account can be cleared out with 3 weeks notice.(this product would be like the 2nd one only the money won't be locked up for 6 months and this is why the highest interest possible on this product is lower then the 2nd product but higher then the first). (With these accounts I was planning on using a maximum of 30% of the amount for generating cash).


For all of my customers (which will not be many at first because I will start out with a max amount of clients even if there miraculously is a big demand) I will be able return their cash at the times they request it, if not I will accept responsibilty by selling off more plex to fund the wallet to still be able to pay-out the cash.(yes I am this crazy)

I understand it will be a challenge, but I am really set on trying this to the full extent. And to give an answer to your actual original question: I am in the business of industry, I am making not alot but I am making a few million ISK a day at the moment with only selling off the products I made. Also I have 2 planetary colonies (which will become 6 of them sooner rather then later) which also generate about 3 million ISK each every 3 days at the moment which will be around 180 million a month when I reach the max amount of colonies.

Keeping my loan amounts small because of this very same purpose, I was expecting to make about 180 million a month with the industry side(which is a low set amount based on market prices of my end products). Next to this I also produces ships and some weapons systems every now and then and at the moment I sell about 1/2 ships a day which is not alot at the moment but my margins are great (30%+). Biggest margin was 40 million profit on a 70 million sale of a Luxurious Yacht.

People will always receive their cash back from me, there might be a chance I won't be able to keep it up and go belly up but in that case I will just plex up pay all the due's and then stop with my whole idea and focus on industry and ship/weapon building.

At the moment I got about 5 billion of my ISK reserved for clients. Also it might be worth mentioning that I will not even start with savings accounts before I have several loans (this way I would only lose money). But they are to come once I can establish on spreadsheets that the loans are actually generating income (not only revenue).

Ok I have blabbed alot right now, if I missed something please do not hesitate to ask. Also I am still open to critics/feedback/suggestions. Like I said before I really want to give this a shot and I don't care if it would bankrupt my account, but I do pay my debts (This you can consider a pledge). If you want to know if I am actually a helpful/nice guy that actually means what he says (unlike the scammers by whom I got robbed once for 1 billion rofl) just ask around in my corp. I might not be playing for a long time but the time I have been playing I continiously helped the new guys in the corp by donating either items/skillbooks/ships/ISK , whatever they needed. I even demanded they would not pay me back. Only yesterday I had the first one that could borrow my procurer he made about 200 mil with mining in a day and then gifted me 30 million (about the price I paid for my procurer) to thank me for the kickstart. Usually I would just tell him that if he gifted me 30 million I would just dump it back in his account, but since im now set on doing the loans and grow that I will need the cash and therefor I now start to accept the gifts I get from the new players who I helped.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#13 - 2015-11-25 13:44:37 UTC
Werner Ross wrote:
1. Loans between 0-50 million: Interest paid by customer will be 3% each week (paid 1 week up front). For example: Take a loan out with me today I will collect the first interest by retracting it from the loaned amount, this way people with loans do not have to worry about the interest if they want to pay it back and be done with it as long ofcourse as they paid the rest of the interest on time.

2. Loans between 50-150 million: Interest paid by customer will be 3.5% each week (paid 1 week up front). Works the same as the first one mentioned above.

3. Loans between 150-250 million: Interest paid by customer will be 4% each week (paid 1 week up front).
These interest rates seem absurdly high for collateralised loans. They'd look a bit more normal if they were monthly rates, but weekly? Bit high. Also, if you're deducting the first interest payment from the loan then you're technically just loaning 240m at 4.2% with the first interest payment at the end of the first week.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Werner Ross
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-11-25 15:04:57 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Werner Ross wrote:
1. Loans between 0-50 million: Interest paid by customer will be 3% each week (paid 1 week up front). For example: Take a loan out with me today I will collect the first interest by retracting it from the loaned amount, this way people with loans do not have to worry about the interest if they want to pay it back and be done with it as long ofcourse as they paid the rest of the interest on time.

2. Loans between 50-150 million: Interest paid by customer will be 3.5% each week (paid 1 week up front). Works the same as the first one mentioned above.

3. Loans between 150-250 million: Interest paid by customer will be 4% each week (paid 1 week up front).
These interest rates seem absurdly high for collateralised loans. They'd look a bit more normal if they were monthly rates, but weekly? Bit high. Also, if you're deducting the first interest payment from the loan then you're technically just loaning 240m at 4.2% with the first interest payment at the end of the first week.


Ok, now that you point it out you are quite right. It seems a bit high if you put it that way...

To be honest I had just made a few numbers based on numbers i saw on the forum (i saw between 4/6% ) so i figured i would be low on the 3/4%

But i have been calculating a bit andam doing it right now with someone that likes to brainstorm about this sort a thing.

So just to let you know that it is being revisited at the moment;)

Thanks for the feedback.

Kind regards,

Werner
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#15 - 2015-11-26 04:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Pohl
Let me get this straight

to obtain 250million - I give you 225million in collateral (with no guarantee of return)- and pay you 750thousand a week

yet you have already told me that I can set up 2 planetary colonies to make @30million a month

so why don't I sell the collateral I would give to you - buy 2 planetary colonies of my own - have 200million to spend (interest free) - and make the amount, you would lend me, through the planetary colonies in a little under month (without the worry of whether or not you will give me to stuff back)

you've certainly got balls - 3 of them

oh and this is before we get into how you are going to enforce repayment - and not leave yourself open to giving 10% of your money away with each loan