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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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The dilemma of attribute implants.

Author
Ace Lapointe
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-11-20 05:04:09 UTC
I fly with Implants, I just pull them when I die, but I generally only have 3+ ones in for the current remap, saves ISK that way, and when I log off, I switch into a 4+ Clone I leave docked up, and ta-da, that way I can fly empty/cheap clones when I PvP, and switch to my nice Pod when I log, some people I know use their HG Crystals when Missioning, and swap out to empty Clones when PvP fleets form up, but this isn't a dilemma, just train the 2 skills for Jump Clones, switch to an empty, fly to where you want to PvP, make it your home station, and bam! You now have a log out Clone and a PvP Clone, and to top it off, no dilemma anymore!
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#62 - 2015-11-20 05:11:22 UTC
Ace Lapointe wrote:
I fly with Implants, I just pull them when I die, but I generally only have 3+ ones in for the current remap, saves ISK that way, and when I log off, I switch into a 4+ Clone I leave docked up, and ta-da, that way I can fly empty/cheap clones when I PvP, and switch to my nice Pod when I log, some people I know use their HG Crystals when Missioning, and swap out to empty Clones when PvP fleets form up, but this isn't a dilemma, just train the 2 skills for Jump Clones, switch to an empty, fly to where you want to PvP, make it your home station, and bam! You now have a log out Clone and a PvP Clone, and to top it off, no dilemma anymore!


Believe me, we've pointed this out to the OP; numerous times.

But they have this bee in their bonnet and nothing we say can sway their opinion.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Moose doing Moosethings
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#63 - 2015-11-23 08:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Moose doing Moosethings
I did the "make a pvp clone and training clone" thing. Problem with that is I don't not pvp Lol. I'm sitting in a 1.4m slasher in my 40m +3's clone.

I get to have the faster sp/hr that I paid for, and it makes the adrenaline dump a tad heavier.
I like to think of it as training for flying with a set of snakes or halos or whatever frigates are supposed to fly with.
Avvy
Doomheim
#64 - 2015-11-23 14:39:07 UTC
I still don't follow some of the peoples logic in these forums over accepting a slower training rate over PvE players.

Only thing I can think of is it's some kind of macho thing.

Something along the lines of, we're PvP players so we can afford to train less than PvE players.



Although it wouldn't surprise me if some of those PvP players have PvE characters training with a more optimised skill training.



So I'll keep training this character until the second week of Feb, then park it up.


I'll just keep an eye on dev blogs and patch notes on occasions after that.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Hell's Kitchen.
#65 - 2015-11-23 14:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
dont really base my fun on training skills tbh, however i bought a char with great core skills so that was my way to speed things up, now i dont bother about skills because i can always fly something within a doctrine.

I dont own any pve chars, i pve and pvp on my main, i owned a tengu alt once but had crystals installed which was for the shield bonuses and dont care about training speed.

Im guessing most pvp player just dont care about training speed because they just like shooting people.

Why are you parking your char up? is training speed affecting you playing the game? i dont get your logic, are you quiting the game because you can lose some implants?, just doesnt make sense

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#66 - 2015-11-23 17:33:34 UTC
Avvy wrote:
I still don't follow some of the peoples logic in these forums over accepting a slower training rate over PvE players.

Only thing I can think of is it's some kind of macho thing.

Something along the lines of, we're PvP players so we can afford to train less than PvE players.

Dude... it has been explained to you multiple times.

- implants are "luxury items." Your sentiment that you must be training at max speed is akin to someone saying that they MUST only buy high end cars because that extra 50 horsepower makes all the difference... yet you refuse to go out on the track because you are afraid of losing that high-end sports car... which essentially renders the extra performance you have a moot point.

- The difference between having +5 imants and no implants is about a month over the course of a year.
Really let that sink in.
By refusing to go out and do anything risky, over a month's worth of skillpoints, you deny yourself loads of content and experience.

- A lot of people value "fun" over maximum SP gain. Personally, I fly with a low-grade pirate implant set most of the time (except for alliance ops, then I go to mid-grades). That means I am training skills at the same rate as someone with only +2s. And it doesn't bother me at all because I am still going to get those same skills that are loaded up in my queue... just a few hours or or days longer than someone who has +5s. Meanwhile, I have found new and interesting ways to bait targets, kill things that have been evading me, and harass vastly more powerful opponents (which is a constantly evolving and organic process that skills will not help with).
Cara Forelli
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#67 - 2015-11-23 18:03:01 UTC
“Five percent of the people think;
ten percent of the people think they think;
and the other eighty-five percent would rather quit EVE than think.”

-Thomas A. Edison

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#68 - 2015-11-24 02:43:58 UTC
There's also absolutely nothing about being in highsec that prevents you from doing PVP if you want to.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#69 - 2015-11-24 06:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Avvy wrote:
I still don't follow some of the peoples logic in these forums over accepting a slower training rate over PvE players.

Only thing I can think of is it's some kind of macho thing.

Something along the lines of, we're PvP players so we can afford to train less than PvE players.



Although it wouldn't surprise me if some of those PvP players have PvE characters training with a more optimised skill training.



So I'll keep training this character until the second week of Feb, then park it up.


I'll just keep an eye on dev blogs and patch notes on occasions after that.



And remember: If your training plan includes more than one primary-secondary stat arrangement and you're not remapping at every transition, you're just leaving SPs on the table like some sort of gutter-dwelling, half-wit casual. Sure, some people - if we can really regard such cretins as "people" - might prefer to sacrifice a few hours worth of optimal training rate merely for the sake of filling out all the skills they need to make their characters truly playable now, but years down the road, they're going to think back on those shameful moments of weakness and realize that, had they just held strong, the largely meaningless number in their character sheet would be thousands - maybe even tens of thousands! - of points higher.

But seriously, it sounds like you're being deliberately obtuse more than anything else, given:

Avvy wrote:
I'll never be totally optimised as I'm not intending to train cybernetics to 5.


This is an implicit admission that you understand that maximizing training rate at any cost is simply not worth it. Once you've admitted to that, deciding where to compromise between risk and training rate is a fairly simple personal decision. If you can't follow that, you're the problem.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Avvy
Doomheim
#70 - 2015-11-24 10:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
SurrenderMonkey wrote:



But seriously, it sounds like you're being deliberately obtuse more than anything else, given:

[


Says the 2005 guy that probably doesn't even require any more sp. That's what I notice on these forums, most seem to be players that are well established, where as Lan said sp doesn't matter anymore because Lan is at that point it's no longer a concern.

I think the real reason some of you guys like it is it helps pad out your kill-mails.



Attributes and attribute implants are completely pointless as a workable system (although later in the game they don't matter unless someone is collecting sp).

If you use them and set your attributes to a primary and secondary then to get any benefit you are locked into training those skills. Which makes training completely boring as you can't train what you require without losing what you gained.

These figures are from my skill tree (x2 skills to train to 5 from 4)

6 days 17 hours (+4 implants with primary and secondary set)
9 days 7 hours (no primary or secondary, but with +4's fitted)

So without +4's that 9 days 7 hours would be even longer.

Depending on what you want to do in-game there is only a set amount of sp you will need (will change with new added skills), any sp after that isn't even required. So by then or near then implants are not even of any real use, unless you want to farm sp to sell as sp packets.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2015-11-24 10:58:51 UTC
Neville, is that you?

Grrr.

Avvy
Doomheim
#72 - 2015-11-24 11:02:28 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Neville, is that you?


I have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe you would like to explain that comment?
MiSANTHR0PE
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#73 - 2015-11-24 11:38:59 UTC
Neville was some guy that used to post about his problems with the game, no one else really had these problems except him, but he would beat the hell out of the thread with rather obscure and pointless reasoning's as to why he was right and everyone else was wrong.

Anyways, I'm a little curious (but not enough to go check) what the difference between +3's and +4's would be in the example you posted above

I roll with +3's no matter where I'm flying, which is mostly hi-sec and low sec, once you get used to spamming the warp button, its rather hard to loose your pod in low sec, the little time I've spent in null, I've just used two +3 implants as opposed to four of them, it's like 20 mil or something a loss, which is the equivalent of like one relic site .... +3's are like the best of both worlds Lol

Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Hell's Kitchen.
#74 - 2015-11-24 11:53:13 UTC
Avvy wrote:
If you use them and set your attributes to a primary and secondary then to get any benefit you are locked into training those skills. Which makes training completely boring as you can't train what you require without losing what you gained.


Training sp isnt suppose to be fun, why not just get in a ship and go have some fun, ive never really installed implants nor in the whole time i have played have i done a neural remap, i joined the game and instantly just undocked and started shooting anything i could see

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Skyweir Kinnison
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2015-11-24 11:54:46 UTC
Avvy wrote:

Says the 2005 guy that probably doesn't even require any more sp. That's what I notice on these forums, most seem to be players that are well established, where as Lan said sp doesn't matter anymore because Lan is at that point it's no longer a concern.
.


Your entire approach in this thread is bemusing at best, but the objection above makes even less sense than usual.

This is the New Citizens Q&A forum. It's designed so that experienced players can help the new player develop an understanding of the game.

That rather requires players that are well established to post here. Shocked

Anyway, I've learned some useful information from the thread, so thanks to the experienced players for taking the time to help (and some of my fellow newbies for detailing their methods).

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Forum Toon
Doomheim
#76 - 2015-11-24 11:57:56 UTC
unless you train something which takes 3-4 weeks you won't see any noticeable difference anyway.
and at some point you will want utility implants which grant some bonus to your gameplay experience.
Avvy
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-11-24 12:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
MiSANTHR0PE wrote:
Neville was some guy that used to post about his problems with the game, no one else really had these problems except him, but he would beat the hell out of the thread with rather obscure and pointless reasoning's as to why he was right and everyone else was wrong.

Anyways, I'm a little curious (but not enough to go check) what the difference between +3's and +4's would be in the example you posted above

I roll with +3's no matter where I'm flying, which is mostly hi-sec and low sec, once you get used to spamming the warp button, its rather hard to loose your pod in low sec, the little time I've spent in null, I've just used two +3 implants as opposed to four of them, it's like 20 mil or something a loss, which is the equivalent of like one relic site .... +3's are like the best of both worlds Lol




Well thanks for explaining Azda Ja's comment.



I actually did an edit in that post.

Added some to the line (...) of 9 days 7 hours and added a line below it.

So as both figures were with +4's fitted, with +3's the ratio between the times should remain the same.

So it's not just the implants it's how you have the primary and secondary set as skills get longer it's not as important, that coupled with the fact you would have trained most of what you want by then.


It's not so much implants it's the attribute system that I see as the issue.

I don't have any issues with ship/equipment enhancing implants.
Avvy
Doomheim
#78 - 2015-11-24 12:27:02 UTC
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
Avvy wrote:

Says the 2005 guy that probably doesn't even require any more sp. That's what I notice on these forums, most seem to be players that are well established, where as Lan said sp doesn't matter anymore because Lan is at that point it's no longer a concern.
.


Your entire approach in this thread is bemusing at best, but the objection above makes even less sense than usual.

This is the New Citizens Q&A forum. It's designed so that experienced players can help the new player develop an understanding of the game.

That rather requires players that are well established to post here. Shocked

Anyway, I've learned some useful information from the thread, so thanks to the experienced players for taking the time to help (and some of my fellow newbies for detailing their methods).



So who's alt are you?


But anyway, I'm going to leave this subject now as I'll only end up repeating myself, I already am in parts.
Memphis Baas
#79 - 2015-11-24 12:36:34 UTC
And so are we.

Various reasons have been explained, but it's still a "dilemma," so at this point it doesn't look like you posted actually looking for an answer.
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
Hell's Kitchen.
#80 - 2015-11-24 12:38:55 UTC
Avvy wrote:
MiSANTHR0PE wrote:
Neville was some guy that used to post about his problems with the game, no one else really had these problems except him, but he would beat the hell out of the thread with rather obscure and pointless reasoning's as to why he was right and everyone else was wrong.

Anyways, I'm a little curious (but not enough to go check) what the difference between +3's and +4's would be in the example you posted above

I roll with +3's no matter where I'm flying, which is mostly hi-sec and low sec, once you get used to spamming the warp button, its rather hard to loose your pod in low sec, the little time I've spent in null, I've just used two +3 implants as opposed to four of them, it's like 20 mil or something a loss, which is the equivalent of like one relic site .... +3's are like the best of both worlds Lol




Well thanks for explaining Azda Ja's comment.



I actually did an edit in that post.

Added some to the line (...) of 9 days 7 hours and added a line below it.

So as both figures were with +4's fitted, with +3's the ratio between the times should remain the same.

So it's not just the implants it's how you have the primary and secondary set as skills get longer it's not as important, that coupled with the fact you would have trained most of what you want by then.


It's not so much implants it's that attribute system that I see as the issue.

I don't have any issues with ship/equipment enhancing implants.


Then ignore it all and fly ships you enjoy flying, learn to frigate then learn to t2 frigate, then learn to cruiser etc etc, fast skill training just means you die in things you cant fly properly. staying docked up because skills, gives you no advantage, i know this because i jumped into expensive ships after buying a char and i just died all the time because i didnt really no much about flying in fleets and the "yes ill win because i have tons more sp" didnt work too well

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*