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Probe Scan Bastion Module
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Eaon Fallion
The Imperial LansDrahd
#1 - 2015-11-22 00:54:34 UTC
So here is a proposition meant to both be a quality of life improvement for J-Space residents, as well as generating content:

Probe Scan Bastion Modules (Perhaps CASE, a Conjunctive Astrometric Signal Equalizer) [We're CASEing the Joint]

I would propose this highslot module able to be fit to T2 Black Ops Battleships and the Nestor (!). When active, it would prevent cloaking and movement and give a huge bonus to scan probe strength, but greatly increase its scan duration. The module would last for 2-5 minutes (feedback appreciated here) and one scan would basically take the duration of the module. However, it would make it so that a single, 'default' spread formation scan of a system would get all signatures to 80-100% depending or rigs, skills, modules, and implants.

This would make finding an empty system, full of gas sites, less of a hassle. It would put valuable assets in space, vulnerable. It would give another use for a line of ships reduced to the utility of Blops bridging, especially the Nestor for its relatively strong tank.

I feel this is a good example of risk vs reward, while also creating emergent content. This promotes activity and visibility in J-Space, while reducing the headache of extensive scanning (in a cloaked frigate) to find a PvP chain.
Iain Cariaba
#2 - 2015-11-22 03:47:15 UTC
Yeah, let's make the highly skilled and experienced probers totally irrelevant.

Better idea. Try not being bad at probing.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#3 - 2015-11-22 15:00:28 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Yeah, let's make the highly skilled and experienced probers totally irrelevant.

Better idea. Try not being bad at probing.

My thoughts precisely.
I spent most of my early years in the game training a characters skills and myself on all the little tricks to scanning quickly and efficiently. Then CCP takes most of that advantage away when they revamped scanning because it was top hard and now you want to take away what little advantage we have left?

Hell no, they need to roll back some of the changes so those of us that dedicated or choose to dedicate the time to train character skills and learn the tricks to scanning actually get some real in game benefit for our time invested.
Eaon Fallion
The Imperial LansDrahd
#4 - 2015-11-22 18:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Eaon Fallion
Quote:
Hell no, they need to roll back some of the changes so those of us that dedicated or choose to dedicate the time to train character skills and learn the tricks to scanning actually get some real in game benefit for our time invested.


Yes, we need to devolve the game back to learning skills and warp @10. This doesn't detract from a skilled scanner. A cloaked cov ops taking 25 minutes to scan a system creates no content. One person scans by themselves with no risk. This tool would be for a specific use (more than 20 sigs in a system) and carries a ton of risk with it.

Scanning, especially combat, or far out in a chain, isn't going anywhere grandpa. No one is coming to take your JEORB. Even if you never use one of these because your so old school, do you not want to kill Redeemers and Nestors?
Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2015-11-22 19:31:34 UTC
Eaon Fallion wrote:
A cloaked cov ops taking 25 minutes to scan a system creates no content.

If it takes you 25 minutes to probe out a system for wormholes, you're doing it wrong.
Darth Squeemus
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-11-22 20:45:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Squeemus
You make it sound like everyone who probes is always cloaked while probing. Remember, there are Tech 1 Frigates like the Imicus that aren't cov ops cloakable. And a large portion of the players using ships like the Imicus are new and can't even use the T1 cloaks. They are at an even greater risk, because people won't refrain from attacking them simply because they are new. And the reward is bound to be slighter because they can't fly with the same effectiveness as more experienced and more thoroughly skilled players, meaning that whatever they are pobing for isn't going to be as valuable.

Inversely, the more experienced players are seeking greater rewards, meaning that a greater risk awaits them when they get to whatever they are probing down, such as sleepers or officer-level rats at more difficult sites, for players who run sites or ninja loot. Their ability to be cloaked while scanning is pretty much their only line of defense. The increased probing efficiency isn't a good enough trade off for the increased risk of being probed down WHILE probing. ESPECIALLY if it's going to literally turn you into a sitting duck by being active for 2-5 minutes, and renders the pilot completely immobile while the module is active. This will neither generate content nor promote activity because nobody will be using your module. They'll just continue to use what they're currently using for probing. And if you remove the ability to fit a cloak while probing, you will simply see a decrease in the amount of players who are in space using probes. So it will actually promote inactivity, which would remove content.

-1
Eaon Fallion
The Imperial LansDrahd
#7 - 2015-11-22 20:47:47 UTC
Nothing is stoping anyone from probing while cloaked. And if you are in a T1 frig, you can cloak while scanning, just not warping. I can show you how if you are confused about that. This is a tool for experienced players in a specific situation, scanning remains as is for 99% of scanning.
Darth Squeemus
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-11-22 20:52:14 UTC
Eaon Fallion wrote:
Nothing is stoping anyone from probing while cloaked.


Exactly. So explain why players should use your "Probing Bastion Module" instead of scanning the way they already are. They won't, because your module removes their greatest line of defense, their mobility and cloakability. The only way to get anyone to use your module would be to force them to, at which point people will simply stop probing and seek other means of income/content.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#9 - 2015-11-22 22:17:08 UTC
Who would use this?

It generally only takes about 5 min to scan down all relevant sites in the most clustered of holes with basically 0 risk.

You want something that would generally take longer to scan has almost 0 tank cost over 1khp and becomes a sitting duck?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-11-22 22:18:52 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Eaon Fallion wrote:
A cloaked cov ops taking 25 minutes to scan a system creates no content.

If it takes you 25 minutes to probe out a system for wormholes, you're doing it wrong.


Maybe in k space, I've seen holes with 15-20 or even more sigs.

I'll be honest, it's not hard but it is a STUPID amount of time I'll never get back going through hole like that.

It's a doddle in k space because it just doesn't happen but in WH seeing more sigs than fit in the window is far from unheard of.



I mean, this idea is terrible but some QOL wouldn't hurt.
Iain Cariaba
#11 - 2015-11-23 05:15:47 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Eaon Fallion wrote:
A cloaked cov ops taking 25 minutes to scan a system creates no content.

If it takes you 25 minutes to probe out a system for wormholes, you're doing it wrong.


Maybe in k space, I've seen holes with 15-20 or even more sigs.

I'll be honest, it's not hard but it is a STUPID amount of time I'll never get back going through hole like that.

It's a doddle in k space because it just doesn't happen but in WH seeing more sigs than fit in the window is far from unheard of.

I mean, this idea is terrible but some QOL wouldn't hurt.

Yeah, I'm even refering to those holes with 15-20 sigs. If it takes you 25 mjnutes to seperate the wormholes from the other crap, you're doing it wrong.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#12 - 2015-11-23 06:07:13 UTC
Scanning is already hilariously terribly easy, asking to make it even easier, however you disguise it, makes you terrible. If you don't like "having to" scan out 20 sigs then here's a top tip: don't be in WH space.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-11-23 07:26:37 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
Scanning is already hilariously terribly easy, asking to make it even easier, however you disguise it, makes you terrible.

It hardly does that. At best it's a crutch that costs a bil to use or so.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#14 - 2015-11-23 09:00:31 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Scanning is already hilariously terribly easy, asking to make it even easier, however you disguise it, makes you terrible.

It hardly does that. At best it's a crutch that costs a bil to use or so.


Then you'll agree there's no point in implementing it.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#15 - 2015-11-23 14:58:45 UTC
Eaon Fallion wrote:
Yes, we need to devolve the game back to learning skills and warp @10. This doesn't detract from a skilled scanner. A cloaked cov ops taking 25 minutes to scan a system creates no content. One person scans by themselves with no risk. This tool would be for a specific use (more than 20 sigs in a system) and carries a ton of risk with it.

I almost cried a tear on this, if 20 sigs is to much for you to scan then move out of WH space. Scanning was, is and should always be a major part of life in a worm holes it is part of the balance of things. And no you cannot have some fancy bastion with scan module attached to make it easier.

To the rest a little bit on the reactionary side aren't we, I never stated I wanted ALL of the changes in the entire game rolled back.
What I want is to roll back or perhaps make further changes to scanning so those who have, those who are, ot those who will spend time training to max skills get some form of bonus or advantage for the time invested. This concept of getting something tangible for your time invested is common in this game and yet it was removed from scanning why?
Why is it good to remove the skills based bonuses from scanning and not remove the skills based bonuses from everything else?
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#16 - 2015-11-23 15:53:29 UTC
Eaon Fallion wrote:
So here is a proposition meant to both be a quality of life improvement for J-Space residents, as well as generating content:

Probe Scan Bastion Modules (Perhaps CASE, a Conjunctive Astrometric Signal Equalizer) [We're CASEing the Joint]

I would propose this highslot module able to be fit to T2 Black Ops Battleships and the Nestor (!). When active, it would prevent cloaking and movement and give a huge bonus to scan probe strength, but greatly increase its scan duration. The module would last for 2-5 minutes (feedback appreciated here) and one scan would basically take the duration of the module. However, it would make it so that a single, 'default' spread formation scan of a system would get all signatures to 80-100% depending or rigs, skills, modules, and implants.

This would make finding an empty system, full of gas sites, less of a hassle. It would put valuable assets in space, vulnerable. It would give another use for a line of ships reduced to the utility of Blops bridging, especially the Nestor for its relatively strong tank.

I feel this is a good example of risk vs reward, while also creating emergent content. This promotes activity and visibility in J-Space, while reducing the headache of extensive scanning (in a cloaked frigate) to find a PvP chain.


+1 IF:

1. cycle time is 20 minutes
2. module creates a warpable beacon like a cyno
3. ship is motionless like a cyno
4. ship can not recieve remote assistance when the module is active