EVE General Discussion

I think you're incorrect about the remaining groups doing drifter incursions being significant or making groups tighter. Activities that require cohesion and pooled resources work for groups that are already close while creating vulnerabilities that destroy those that are not. The mechanic hardly seems to build groups as much as confirm those that are already there, and that's still if that collective effort can't be put to better use elsewhere.

This is why I predict the death of the public incursion group, and with it a reduction in social ties and a harder in to drifter incursion groups. Unless the ability arises to perfectly control ship loss in place of avoidance the cost of operating will be greatly imbalanced between members and so will the reward. That's not a sustainable model for an activity that isn't fully moderated somehow. It still also requires a number of people to do their part and offer up their ships when the time comes for a DD.

I don't see that working outside of such controls. If the don't exist what keeps the same player from being DDd several sites in a row? How much does that player up front in the hopes that some time in the future the isk is returned? Does the group moderate that? If so, which will very much likely be the case, how do you ensure full compliance from the group? Simple, a closed group. Not a relationship building and socially open group adding members and drawing them in, but a group that must significantly vet their applicants because a bad apple is now capable of ruining the balance and income of the group.

I say this as a PvE player who looks forward to the experience as a short term event, but a structured I don't see the open for a solo player to have an in with the social structures I see this demanding. That's what a number of incursion runners are, unaffiliateds with easy ins. And the current groups depend largely on those players. Without them they can't maintain their fleets with their few core members either. As such, if this comes to pass and even if your numbers are correct that is effectively death for incursions.

10% - 20% of the members currently running is less than a single HQ fleet during the times I run per incursion. So enough total members for one HQ fleet and a decent wait list if the same numbers are present across 3 HS incursions and compress to one. And I feel that's somewhat optimistic at times. Peak times are another story of course.

@Markus Reese

Drifter incursions shouldn't be confused with the issues surrounding current incursions. At current incursion payouts the loss drops the income way below most other combat PvE activities that are worth anything. Regular incursions could be solved with a income balance and a shift of a few other HS PvE activities to make room. Not so with these as beyond the income potential:

- the logistics of frequent ship replacement getting in the way of being able to run them non-stop,
- the lopsided cost to operate created by those same losses across members creating even significant loss potential on an individual basis,
- the more advanced accounting structure that will be needed on a player org basis to level this difference and
- the likelyhood of moving from the fly what you want attitudes of some communities to rigid cost effective min/max doctrines aimed at maximizing what can be gained after all of the above

all just further complicate any attempt at equivalency.

I don't think there's going to be an agreement between myself and the 2 of you regarding whether the Drifter incursions should replace the Sansha ones in any capacity, HS or no. Where you see social ties I see closed small groups that were once open and large. Where you see a small but dedicated group I see levels of activity which won't be sustainable when I play. Where you see a solution to highsec moneymaking I can't help but think of the of the threads that came before about lvl 4's and the market traders laughing at these threads as much as those.

I don't think we'll ever reconcile on the idea that your theory would be a good direction for any of the causes you state it will serve, save killing incursion running population, but I don't believe that the secondary results you predict are realistic in any appreciable scale vs simply properly balancing the current mechanic's income potential.

I'm not even willing to speculate on the effect this will have on subs. That's another conversation beyond this content itself.

Wonderful idea
Low Risk=Low Reward