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Author
Xzanos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-11-18 16:22:03 UTC
Hey fellow space pilots, I'm here trying to gain some info from you all. This will be a short post but i would like you guys to categorize the 4 main races ships from 1-4 where 1 is the most powerful and 4 being the weakest. If you would like to provide a short explanation that would be helpful but i really just want a general opinion.

And please don't just spam BUFF X!! NERF Y!!

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Ultim8Evil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-11-18 16:26:58 UTC
Define "ships"

Subcaps? Caps? Supers? Haulers?

Follow me on Twitter for literally no good reason @TheUltim8Evil

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-11-18 16:33:20 UTC
do you want to take into account cross training? both in weapons, tank, and/or pirate ships?

No Worries

Xzanos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-11-18 16:39:16 UTC
Well we are off to a fine start! I apologize if i did not specify a particular ship class but i was just looking for a general overview of the races as a whole while some races may shine more than others i feel there is still a general scale of power that can be drawn up between the races.

And im not trying to take into account any training. Assume all pilots are gods with all lvl 5 skills.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Titus Heldane
The Vomit Comets
#5 - 2015-11-18 16:53:14 UTC
thats a terrible question.


cruisers? depends. fleet cruisers? amarr.
solo cruisers? gallente.
EWAR cruisers? caldari.
fast cruisers? minmatar.
and so on and so on for every single ship class.

IMO the game is really well balanced and each race has their own advantages, there is no 'best' race, only for specific situations.
Xzanos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-11-18 17:43:46 UTC
Ok obviously you guys need more specifics.

Just give me your opinion on each races ships by class when in a fleet setting.

Frigate
Cruiser
Battlecruiser
Battleship

Just stick with T1 and Faction hulls.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#7 - 2015-11-18 18:07:39 UTC  |  Edited by: RavenPaine
In my opinion:

You can't really do a blanket statement that says one race is the best.

Each race has some specialized hulls in different hull classes, that make them popular. But over all the "BEST" is subjective.
One of your specifics should be what YOUR end goal is, or your intended use of the information.

Caldari =
Missiles / capless weapons
shield tank
E-war
easy to fly
two weapons systems for one race
seems to be PvE oriented

Gallente =
Drones
great brawler / short range, high DPS



Minmatar =
Capless weapons
speed
utility slots
interchangeable tanks
high skilling requirements
best alpha strike

Amarr =
great tank
focused/limited DPS attribute (EM)
can do drones
can do missiles
neut bonused

Not just the races, but within each ship class, those ships can be fit different for different applications.
Tempest can be fit several ways
Mega can have more tank, or more DPS
Even frigates can be fit for speed, tank, or DPS.
Carriers can rep or fit for solo PvE.


Edit here: If your trying to fit into alliance fleet ops, just ask your CEO what he wants.
Xzanos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-11-18 18:20:45 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
In my opinion:

You can't really do a blanket statement that says one race is the best.

Each race has some specialized hulls in different hull classes, that make them popular. But over all the "BEST" is subjective.
One of your specifics should be what YOUR end goal is, or your intended use of the information.


Thank you for the great reply, I guess my intent for the information was to see if my own feeling were correct. I have been playing the game since 2004 and i have seen a lot of change in many different areas of the game but something that has always stood out is how certain races seem to be able to come out on top with less pilot experience and less supporting skills for the ship. I would think that max skills for a ship would win against skills at lvl 3 ( ofc this is in a situation where neither ship is being completely countered ) but from my experience this is not the case by far.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Titus Heldane
The Vomit Comets
#9 - 2015-11-18 18:24:45 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
Ok obviously you guys need more specifics.

Just give me your opinion on each races ships by class when in a fleet setting.

Frigate
Cruiser
Battlecruiser
Battleship

Just stick with T1 and Faction hulls.


the thing is, this is still horribly unspecific, but based on personal preference itd be this:


Frigate - kitey tristans, gallente
Cruiser - mallers/vexors, amarr/gallente
Battlecruiser - prophecy, amarr
Battleship - tempest, minmatar

t1 hulls only
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2015-11-18 18:54:26 UTC
caldari 1-4
gallente 1-4
amarr 1-4
minmatar 1-4

a meaningful ranking at the race level is simply impossible. I suppose I could go through and rank every ship 1-4 and take a racial average, but I'm not sure it would be meaningful, and also it would require a lot of effort.

Luckily for us Gorski Car already did it, although given the rate of changes in eve these days some things may have shifted around.
http://crossingzebras.com/small-gang-tier-list-part-1-frigates/
http://crossingzebras.com/small-gang-tier-list-part-2-cruisers/
http://crossingzebras.com/battlecruiser-tier-list/
http://crossingzebras.com/small-gang-tier-list-part-4-battleships/

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Xzanos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-11-18 20:20:34 UTC
So basically anyone who wants to fly race specific should just quit eve... because 80 % of your ships will have their roll done better by another race.

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#12 - 2015-11-18 22:13:37 UTC
Xzanos wrote:
So basically anyone who wants to fly race specific should just quit eve... because 80 % of your ships will have their roll done better by another race.


What the hell? Who said that?
Iyokus Patrouette
Buccaneers of New Eden
Liquor Legion
#13 - 2015-11-18 22:40:04 UTC
Gallente Ships best ships, all other races are trash tier. \o/

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Tohkat Sinawi
Sinawi Exploration Corp
#14 - 2015-11-18 22:52:48 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
caldari 1-4
gallente 1-4
amarr 1-4
minmatar 1-4



I wanted to reply just to say the above. Now that I'm capable of fulfilling the necessary roles (i.e. combat, hauling, scanning, etc.) I'm beginning to train... not for specific ROLES... but for specific SHIPS. Consider the T2 Recons (cruiser-class):

Amarr version: Tracking Disruptor + Energy Vamp bonuses
Caldari version: ECM Jammer bonuses
Gallente version: Remote Sensor Damp + Warp Scram bonuses
Minmatar version: Target Painter + Webifier bonuses


...so... if you can find a valid way to compare these things... excellent! ...but in all honesty, they each fit into any given fleet/encounter in somewhat different ways. As such, claiming that one is better than the other comes down to a FAR more nuanced discussion about tank/gank/utility/popularity/pvpmeta/etc... and there just isn't one clear winner over all the rest.

The real questions should be:


  1. Do you prefer shield tanking or armor tanking?
  2. What weapon system(s) are you most partial to?
  3. What colors & designs do you like most with regards to the 4 main factions?



...yes... it comes down to things THAT subjective... why? Because by the time that you begin to train for those specific T2 hulls with their precise bonuses and roles, you'll know "I want this ship because of XYZ." Until then... go pew pew in ship that "rep rep good good." If you don't like how it looks/feels, you won't wanna fly it... and while one might be better than the rest objectively, every race has viable ships along the way.

Xzanos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-11-19 00:51:47 UTC
Im just going to come out and say it. I fly 100% Minmatar. That said i can not for the life of me find out what actually viable role most of our ships are supposed to fit into. I understand volley and know that it is a tactic used in fleets to nullify the effectiveness of enemy logistics. But what else is there?

*activates thermal hardeners for incoming flame

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#16 - 2015-11-19 01:36:11 UTC
Minmatar specific roles can be subjective as well.

Hurricane used to be an awesome BC. I think the Navy version is basically the same now.
It can be fit with
220's- frigate killer elite
720's- kitey sniper of cruisers and other BC
425's- shoots ships of the same size and bigger
Armor tank
Shield tank

Tempest, can be flown like an oversized BC
Snipe with 1200's, great alpha
armor tank
shield tank
800 auto's for up closer
utility fits galore, neuts, RR, TP, duel prop, etc

Rapier
GREAT small gang web application

Rupture
cheap, good tank
great damage for a cruiser

Typhoon
OMG the best BS ever! (Megathron is good too, Geddon used to be a beast on it's own.)
Great torp platform
2 utility hi-slots

Thrasher
no need to spell it out
everyone knows what thrashers do best

Nagelfar
Best dread imo.



Broadsword
Super tank

Vagabond
Probably the original kite/snipe platform
Fast in and out
Easy to disengage and buzz off


Minmatar have lots of ships that can fit into lots of doctrines. Very flexible
They have the fastest light drones.
Missiles
Guns


EVE is kind of in a rut for the last 2 or 3 years. Frigates online....
If the game called for more, bigger fleet comps, you would have more experience in those areas.
The only way to fully FEEL/understand the ship is to fly them regularly.





Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#17 - 2015-11-19 02:29:33 UTC
Disclaimer, I have very limited knowledge and will be going purely off personal feelings, feel free to rip them apart for being bad P

I have a feeling when you say what are they best, you kind of mean, what are the easiest?

If so, I personally think that caldari are the easiest for pve (fewer skills to properly tank, missiles are one of the easier weapon systems to understand when you're first starting out, you don't have to worry too much about cap, etc.).

If you mean for pvp, I'm tempted to say either minmatar for projectile weapons (no cap, instant damage, damage selection, high alpha, etc.), or caldari for their ewar (ecm, though it's not as op as it used to be :P ). That said, minmatar ships usually aren't as tanky as the other races, so a small mistake can be amplified. Of course the more tanky ships (amarr and gallente mostly) rely on brawling more heavily and have to be careful choosing their enemy.

But yeah, as others have said it's difficult to just straight up rank what's best and what's worst. Perhaps a better aproach would be to try and figure out what weapon types tend to be "better" (projectiles for ammo selection or hybrid for high dps imho), what type of tank is better (shield for pve and kitey stuff, armor for larger fleets), and what kind of ewar (damps and ecm hands down).
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#18 - 2015-11-19 03:05:00 UTC
My $0.02 based on my limited experience:

In no particular order:

Best Combat Frigates: Comet, Daredevil, Tristan.
Best Tackle Frigates: Dramiel, Garmur, Keres *daylight*
Best EWAR Frigates: Keres, Sentinel, Kitsune, Vigil, Maulus. NOTE: The Navy Vigil promises to be a pretty spectacular little support hull.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#19 - 2015-11-19 06:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Xzanos wrote:
Im just going to come out and say it. I fly 100% Minmatar. That said i can not for the life of me find out what actually viable role most of our ships are supposed to fit into. I understand volley and know that it is a tactic used in fleets to nullify the effectiveness of enemy logistics. But what else is there?

If you are relatively new to PvP then I suggest you poke around New Citizens Q&A for awhile. Lots of good information in there.

There was a newbie who, not too long ago, asked about PvP using Minmatar ships. He got a plethora of advice.
Ah, here it is.

The advice I am going to give you here is this;

A ship by itself won't do much and can't be clearly categorized or quantified (as you are trying to attempt in this thread). It is the fittings that determine what it can do and how it can do it.
Mind you... some ships are better with certain fittings and tactics (as determined by their native stats and bonuses), but almost all ships of all races can be shoehorned in any tactic if you are creative enough.

Some examples;
A Breecher can be fit for brawling OR it can be fit to kite the enemy. The difference will lie in how it is fit.
Fit with Rockets and an Afterburner you can brawl quite effectively. However you will be vulnerable to hostiles that are faster than you. If you fit the Breecher with Light Missiles and a Microwardrive, you can pull and maintain range over other targets... however your damage output might be lacking against more beefy ships.
And either way, you should take advantage of the active tanking bonus on the ship as it increases your staying power... except against targets will high volley strikes.

You can also fly around in a Slasher. It is generally faster than a Breecher and has an added "Role Bonus" that cuts the capacitor needs of Warp Disruptors/Scramblers... making it ideal for running down and "pinning" targets.
The tradeoff is that a Slasher is more flimsy and can't tank as effectively as a Breecher. However, you can compensate by taking advantage of the Slasher's ample mid-slots; fitting a Tracking Disruptor or a Sensor Dampener can afford you better survivability against certain kinds of targets... depending on whether you intend to be at close or long range from your target. Just be mindful that Minmatar ships have smaller than average capacitors and may not be able to run such mods for long (in conjunction with everything else you are trying to run).


Try flying around in small PvP gangs. Listen and watch what they do. When you see their fits, have them explain what each mod is supposed to do.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2015-11-19 11:08:40 UTC
this is a silly question becuase the pirate ships are obviously the best.

eg daredevil

400 dps that fits into a novice with a 90% web.

eg succubus

can engage and disengage at will.

etc

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