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Changes to gridsize

First post
Author
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#41 - 2015-11-13 16:02:11 UTC
nonsciolist wrote:
Could you also consider increasing the distance from which you can look at a ship/object?


This is not something we have planned at the moment, we are doing this due to the massive size Citadels will be.

Some team, in the future, might decide to do this.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

t3hWarrior
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-11-13 16:21:57 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
nonsciolist wrote:
Could you also consider increasing the distance from which you can look at a ship/object?


This is not something we have planned at the moment, we are doing this due to the massive size Citadels will be.

Some team, in the future, might decide to do this.


i think that in the new camera presentation in eve vegas they said it would be possible
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#43 - 2015-11-13 16:55:42 UTC
FOR GOD'S SAKE FINALLY....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've only been saying "remove grids" for 8 FREAKING YEARS. And this is the first step since the beginning of the game in 2003 towards making grid-less space....

Good lord... maybe we're gonna finally have a decent game.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2015-11-13 16:59:45 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Claymore
Leto Aramaus wrote:
FOR GOD'S SAKE FINALLY....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've only been saying "remove grids" for 8 FREAKING YEARS. And this is the first step since the beginning of the game in 2003 towards making grid-less space....

Good lord... maybe we're gonna finally have a decent game.


There are some potential areas that could stop this from happening in the next release, but we are going to work hard at getting round them so we can give you MASSIVE SPACE! Shocked

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#45 - 2015-11-13 17:27:18 UTC
I like the grid sizes and the new view point of the ships so you can see the scale of ships much better…
BUT… When you zoom out and it goes from a close view to the tactical view the camera is no longer anchored to your ship which is dumb.. It should stay anchored to the ship till you manually right click and drag the camera about so you can quickly zoom out to look at something and then zoom back in and its still looking at your ship.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2015-11-13 17:29:09 UTC
Tappits wrote:
I like the grid sizes and the new view point of the ships so you can see the scale of ships much better…
BUT… When you zoom out and it goes from a close view to the tactical view the camera is no longer anchored to your ship which is dumb.. It should stay anchored to the ship till you manually right click and drag the camera about so you can quickly zoom out to look at something and then zoom back in and its still looking at your ship.


You should post this feedback over in the camera thread as it is not related to grids.

But thank you for posting. P

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2015-11-13 17:35:01 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
By the sound of #3...

"3. Anchoring POS might have some issues, we are aware of this."

...It sounds like two+ moons could be on the same grid!


This is something we would love to know if you have examples of. It is something we are checking, but with the amount of systems and moons in EVE, we might miss it. Ugh


This should be trivial for You to mass check. After all You have all space objects in your database with exact locations.


You are quite correct, I am sadly not yet a DB Wizard, just some kind of apprentice and my developer who does this magic is off today, so some examples to go and take a peek would not hurt.

Fortunately, CCP releases a static data export for universe info, so anyone can do it.

Or, to be more specific, I can do it.


CLOSEST MOON DISTANCES:
K-6K16 VIII - Moon 1, K-6K16 VIII - Moon 2: 6,554 km
J224324 V - Moon 3, J224324 V - Moon 4: 7,666 km
Hjortur V - Moon 6, Hjortur V - Moon 7: 8,252 km
IG-4OF III - Moon 1, IG-4OF III - Moon 2: 8,330 km
R-ARKN V - Moon 1, R-ARKN V - Moon 2: 8,790 km
Dysa V - Moon 5, Dysa V - Moon 6: 8,883 km
D2EZ-X V - Moon 5, D2EZ-X V - Moon 6: 8,883 km
U104-3 IV - Moon 4, U104-3 IV - Moon 5: 9,340 km
J132144 I - Moon 1, J132144 I - Moon 2: 9,708 km
Hoshoun VI - Moon 1, Hoshoun VI - Moon 2: 10,409 km
MDD-79 VIII - Moon 2, MDD-79 VIII - Moon 3: 10,914 km
J170552 IV - Moon 1, J170552 IV - Moon 2: 11,272 km
Shedoo VIII - Moon 1, Shedoo VIII - Moon 2: 11,426 km
PEM-LC VIII - Moon 1, PEM-LC VIII - Moon 2: 11,427 km
DFH-V5 VIII - Moon 4, DFH-V5 VIII - Moon 5: 11,523 km
J152111 V - Moon 1, J152111 V - Moon 2: 11,581 km
C-C99Z II - Moon 3, C-C99Z II - Moon 4: 11,772 km
N7-KGJ VI - Moon 2, N7-KGJ VI - Moon 3: 12,066 km
J133521 III - Moon 6, J133521 III - Moon 7: 12,363 km
B-R5RB VII - Moon 2, B-R5RB VII - Moon 3: 12,570 km
J225530 VII - Moon 5, J225530 VII - Moon 6: 12,644 km
Jondik IV - Moon 4, Jondik IV - Moon 5: 12,823 km
VV-VCR VII - Moon 1, VV-VCR VII - Moon 2: 12,888 km
J133128 III - Moon 1, J133128 III - Moon 2: 12,955 km
D2-HOS IV - Moon 1, D2-HOS IV - Moon 2: 12,977 km
Tukanas VI - Moon 7, Tukanas VI - Moon 8: 13,019 km
Lansez IV - Moon 1, Lansez IV - Moon 2: 13,132 km
J150234 VII - Moon 2, J150234 VII - Moon 3: 13,137 km
Sagain V - Moon 1, Sagain V - Moon 2: 13,218 km
L-TPN0 III - Moon 1, L-TPN0 III - Moon 2: 13,432 km
5J-62N V - Moon 1, 5J-62N V - Moon 2: 13,534 km
Kasi III - Moon 2, Kasi III - Moon 3: 13,620 km
JK-Q77 VI - Moon 3, JK-Q77 VI - Moon 4: 13,708 km
Yishinoon VI - Moon 3, Yishinoon VI - Moon 4: 13,708 km
J121921 VIII - Moon 8, J121921 VIII - Moon 9: 13,747 km
8-ULAA V - Moon 1, 8-ULAA V - Moon 2: 13,824 km
J140823 VII - Moon 2, J140823 VII - Moon 3: 13,915 km
J104859 III - Moon 2, J104859 III - Moon 3: 14,075 km
Egghelende V - Moon 3, Egghelende V - Moon 4: 14,138 km
J121146 VI - Moon 4, J121146 VI - Moon 5: 14,482 km


Code is here. One of the results, D2-HOS, was close to where I was currently parked, so I went out personally to verify my findings: http://imgur.com/YQhykUS

Looks like there are moons that will easily co-exist on the same grid.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-11-13 17:38:48 UTC
I'm curious what the performance and network load implications will be, since the client has to deal with potential by factors increased amount of stuff in the overview and on screen. Maybe you should introduce those super grids first for citadels only...

I'm my own NPC alt.

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#49 - 2015-11-13 17:39:26 UTC
Querns wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
By the sound of #3...

"3. Anchoring POS might have some issues, we are aware of this."

...It sounds like two+ moons could be on the same grid!


This is something we would love to know if you have examples of. It is something we are checking, but with the amount of systems and moons in EVE, we might miss it. Ugh


This should be trivial for You to mass check. After all You have all space objects in your database with exact locations.


You are quite correct, I am sadly not yet a DB Wizard, just some kind of apprentice and my developer who does this magic is off today, so some examples to go and take a peek would not hurt.

Fortunately, CCP releases a static data export for universe info, so anyone can do it.

Or, to be more specific, I can do it.


CLOSEST MOON DISTANCES:
K-6K16 VIII - Moon 1, K-6K16 VIII - Moon 2: 6,554 km
J224324 V - Moon 3, J224324 V - Moon 4: 7,666 km
Hjortur V - Moon 6, Hjortur V - Moon 7: 8,252 km
IG-4OF III - Moon 1, IG-4OF III - Moon 2: 8,330 km
R-ARKN V - Moon 1, R-ARKN V - Moon 2: 8,790 km
Dysa V - Moon 5, Dysa V - Moon 6: 8,883 km
D2EZ-X V - Moon 5, D2EZ-X V - Moon 6: 8,883 km
U104-3 IV - Moon 4, U104-3 IV - Moon 5: 9,340 km
J132144 I - Moon 1, J132144 I - Moon 2: 9,708 km
Hoshoun VI - Moon 1, Hoshoun VI - Moon 2: 10,409 km
MDD-79 VIII - Moon 2, MDD-79 VIII - Moon 3: 10,914 km
J170552 IV - Moon 1, J170552 IV - Moon 2: 11,272 km
Shedoo VIII - Moon 1, Shedoo VIII - Moon 2: 11,426 km
PEM-LC VIII - Moon 1, PEM-LC VIII - Moon 2: 11,427 km
DFH-V5 VIII - Moon 4, DFH-V5 VIII - Moon 5: 11,523 km
J152111 V - Moon 1, J152111 V - Moon 2: 11,581 km
C-C99Z II - Moon 3, C-C99Z II - Moon 4: 11,772 km
N7-KGJ VI - Moon 2, N7-KGJ VI - Moon 3: 12,066 km
J133521 III - Moon 6, J133521 III - Moon 7: 12,363 km
B-R5RB VII - Moon 2, B-R5RB VII - Moon 3: 12,570 km
J225530 VII - Moon 5, J225530 VII - Moon 6: 12,644 km
Jondik IV - Moon 4, Jondik IV - Moon 5: 12,823 km
VV-VCR VII - Moon 1, VV-VCR VII - Moon 2: 12,888 km
J133128 III - Moon 1, J133128 III - Moon 2: 12,955 km
D2-HOS IV - Moon 1, D2-HOS IV - Moon 2: 12,977 km
Tukanas VI - Moon 7, Tukanas VI - Moon 8: 13,019 km
Lansez IV - Moon 1, Lansez IV - Moon 2: 13,132 km
J150234 VII - Moon 2, J150234 VII - Moon 3: 13,137 km
Sagain V - Moon 1, Sagain V - Moon 2: 13,218 km
L-TPN0 III - Moon 1, L-TPN0 III - Moon 2: 13,432 km
5J-62N V - Moon 1, 5J-62N V - Moon 2: 13,534 km
Kasi III - Moon 2, Kasi III - Moon 3: 13,620 km
JK-Q77 VI - Moon 3, JK-Q77 VI - Moon 4: 13,708 km
Yishinoon VI - Moon 3, Yishinoon VI - Moon 4: 13,708 km
J121921 VIII - Moon 8, J121921 VIII - Moon 9: 13,747 km
8-ULAA V - Moon 1, 8-ULAA V - Moon 2: 13,824 km
J140823 VII - Moon 2, J140823 VII - Moon 3: 13,915 km
J104859 III - Moon 2, J104859 III - Moon 3: 14,075 km
Egghelende V - Moon 3, Egghelende V - Moon 4: 14,138 km
J121146 VI - Moon 4, J121146 VI - Moon 5: 14,482 km


Code is here. One of the results, D2-HOS, was close to where I was currently parked, so I went out personally to verify my findings: http://imgur.com/YQhykUS

Looks like there are moons that will easily co-exist on the same grid.


You sir have just made my weekend!

Thank you very much for this. Big smile

I had a look at some of the examples supplied by the player earlier and it is something we are going to discuss on Monday.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2015-11-13 17:44:56 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
I'm curious what the performance and network load implications will be, since the client has to deal with potential by factors increased amount of stuff in the overview and on screen. Maybe you should introduce those super grids first for citadels only...


We are not super concerned, we will be performance and mass testing to determine if there are any, but off the tops of our heads we think it should be ok.

We need to introduce them before Citadels so we can iron out any potential issues before we actually have things that rely on them. Testing so far is looking pretty good, aside from the known issue, which I will actually add to the thread in a better format.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2015-11-13 18:21:54 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Atruin Egivand wrote:
Those new and awesomely oversized extra-big grids will surely break in totally new and exciting ways Roll

Can't say I'm a big fan of that.


Hopefully I do my job properly and we break them in new and exciting ways before we hit TQ. Ugh

One can't say that you guys don't have any humor. If a few years of interwebz taught me anything the crowd will break a product faster, more complete and in the most ridiculous way possible that the poor provider could never think of.

So yeah ... good luck with that.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#52 - 2015-11-13 18:37:40 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Querns wrote:

Fortunately, CCP releases a static data export for universe info, so anyone can do it.

Or, to be more specific, I can do it.


CLOSEST MOON DISTANCES:
K-6K16 VIII - Moon 1, K-6K16 VIII - Moon 2: 6,554 km
J224324 V - Moon 3, J224324 V - Moon 4: 7,666 km
Hjortur V - Moon 6, Hjortur V - Moon 7: 8,252 km
[cut out]
J121146 VI - Moon 4, J121146 VI - Moon 5: 14,482 km


Code is here. One of the results, D2-HOS, was close to where I was currently parked, so I went out personally to verify my findings: http://imgur.com/YQhykUS

Looks like there are moons that will easily co-exist on the same grid.


You sir have just made my weekend!

Thank you very much for this. Big smile

I had a look at some of the examples supplied by the player earlier and it is something we are going to discuss on Monday.


I note that while Querns has pointed out a problem it's not as bad as this makes it look. Because grids cannot merge and cannot overlap, only two of these will have two moons on one grid. All others will have a gridwall between the two moons - either roughly equidistant, or 7800 km from the first one to establish its grid. This could cause issues with the moons close to 7800km apart, but it won't be that there's two moons on one grid.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#53 - 2015-11-13 18:42:17 UTC
Great work... any chance now that the grid is bigger we can get more then 250km max target range?

There are so many ships and setups that can in theory target past that but we are cutt of for some silly reason

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#54 - 2015-11-13 18:46:31 UTC
R.I.P. Gridfu
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-11-13 19:05:02 UTC
Are you going to fix some of the NPC's? It has been a while, but I remember coming across some NPCs on stargate gates that didn't seem to have a lock or weapons range limit (ie was being damped, jammed, and shot from ~500km away)

.

Kalestrom Crendraven
Alcoholocaust.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#56 - 2015-11-13 19:05:19 UTC
Are you going to be looking into drag/stop bubble mechanics with this?
NinjaTurtle
THIGH GUYS
#57 - 2015-11-13 19:19:55 UTC
IN CLAYMORE WE TRUST
but seriously thank you for this, it's long overdue and based on how caps will be changing, completely necessary.
Andi Onthatop
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#58 - 2015-11-13 19:22:31 UTC
Cool change, big grids are awesome.

Have you made sure that it's not possible for sleeper sites (combat anomalies, data/relic sites) to spawn on the same grid as each other?

It would suck to want to do capital escalations and have two sites on the same grid, forcing you to escalate both of them at the same time and either not do the second site, or do a single wave in site 1, then a wave in site 2, etc.
Khaelian Osiris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2015-11-13 19:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Khaelian Osiris
Idea:
-Signature radius and sensor strength affect distance that a ship will show on grid. Gives your ship a "footprint" similar to how probe-able you are currently.
-All ships show on grid under 250km regardless of stats.
-Combat recons get a role bonus where they are not visible on grid above the base 250km, and keep their d-scan immunity.

Example:
-Jump in to system in a cruiser, see a carrier 2 AU away on your grid, as well as several towers, and that's it.
-260 km from you, a Crow can see you, but you can't see him. Your footprint is bigger than his, and his is small enough that he doesn't show past 255km.

Edit - More ideas:
Low-profile bubble. Requires a higher anchoring skill, but doesn't show on grid outside of 250km.

Note: all items mentioned here would still show on d-scan, just not on overview.
Capqu
Half Empty
#60 - 2015-11-13 19:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
any planned changes for bubbles re: how far they pull from?

currently any bubble on your destination grid on your vector pulls you to the closest bubble, obviously with much bigger grids the potential distance pulled can be much bigger

admittedly you could make bubbles very far on grid already, but it involved a lot of grid manipulation and would not persist through downtime

also wondering about the ESS, as currently you need to extend a grid 3001km from a station/stargate to place it on grid - which results in a very powerful bubble as it warns you in local when something lands in it
if grids are much bigger can we expect them to be modified too?


also abou the moon thing, i've had poses on the same grid as station undocks before (until downtime), it's not a big deal load wise and its kinda cool to see
the only issue is you can gun up to infinite range with the tower (unless this changed with brain in a box) so you can make sentry guns do strange things