These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Frigate V or Destroyer V first for PVP?

Author
Hyperion Kronos
Orden des weissen Kreuzes
#1 - 2015-11-13 16:47:08 UTC
I am currently a 6 mio SP, jack-of-all-trades character. I am slowly moving from making money (through trade and mining while exploring this incredibly complex game world) over to the PVE and PVP combat area.

For PVE I have been concentrating on drone skills (Drones V and , currently Drone Interfacing IV for sentry drones). After that I want to start training for PVP skills. First thing to do will be getting Small Hybrid Turrets to V (T2 light drones will have to wait).

My question is simple: is it better to go for frigate V first or is it better to concentrate on Destroyer V and the much praised Svipul or a Hecate? Though I started as Minmatar I now fly mainly Gallente ships (Algos, Catalyst) with slightly better skills.

I lean to going for Gallente Frigate V first, because it gives me more choice and cheaper ships (to lose) than Gallente Destroyer V. But as all are raving about those invincible T3 dessies, I am not sure, what to do and would appreciate your advice.

Thanks!
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#2 - 2015-11-13 16:55:10 UTC
There is no "better".

That said, I would go with frigate 5 for the diversity.

Anyway, if you are new to PvP and you jump in a T3 destroyer, it's going to be an expensive way to learn that they are, in fact, not at all invincible.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#3 - 2015-11-13 17:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Persephone Alleile
If you're a Gallente pilot with good drone skills the Tristan is a good bet for first pvp ship. With t2 light drones and neuts in the high slots you can take on most frigate size ships.
Moon Moon Burdy
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#4 - 2015-11-13 19:03:39 UTC
Like so many smart folks told me: git gud with frigs rather than wasting iskies gittin' gud with dessies.

I'd even suggest just getting out there right now with whatever T1 frig you can fit and go DIAF a few times. Pay attention to exactly how and why you DIAF and learn things on the cheap.

Or you can go lose ~50m a pop making rookie mistakes. Either way is nice. :D

Things that went boom

Storytime with Moon Moon New stories semi frequently-ish!

Promising Young Murderer, Education Appreciated.

Hyperion Kronos
Orden des weissen Kreuzes
#5 - 2015-11-13 21:21:52 UTC
Okay, okay, I am sold. Frigate V it is! Thank you all for your replies.

DIAF (?) Dying instantly... on arrival, at sight, in a Fight,... can't find it, Burdy, but I gonna choose the right way.

Now, I adapted my skill plan accordingly

(All combat and support skills are at 3 to 4, except
Power Grid, CPU, Mechanics, Drones at 5)

Gallente Frigate 4
Small Hypbrid Turret 5 - 3.5 Days
Nanite Interfacing 3
Thermodynamics 4
Drone Interfacing 4 (sentry drones) - 3,5 Days
Light Drone Operation 5 - 4,5 Days
Weapon Upgrades 5 - 9 Days
Advanced Weapoin Upgrades 1-3
Hull Upgrades 5 - 7 Days
Nanite Operation 3

> This would allow T1 Frigs with T2 Modules. Then:

Gallente Frigate 5 - 9,5 Days
Capacitor Systems Operation 5 - 3,5
Spaceship Command 5 - 5
Capacitor Systems Operation 5 - 3,5
Capacitor Management 5 - 10,5 Days

> Optimising support skills

Would this make sense or do you have any corrections, suggestions?








Hyperion Kronos
Orden des weissen Kreuzes
#6 - 2015-11-13 21:28:56 UTC
Correction:

Gallente Frigate 5 - 9,5 Days
Spaceship Command 5 - 5 Days
Repair Systems 5 - 3,5 Days

Capacitor Systems Operation 5 - 3,5 Days
Capacitor Management 5 - 10,5 Days

The last two capacitor skills don't open up other skills or items. Should I skip them for later?
Francis Raven
ExDominion
Evictus.
#7 - 2015-11-13 21:31:34 UTC
DIAF - "Die in a fire" I think

Better cap skills will let you rep for longer. I would get started on those as well.

ExDominion | Nullsec Corporation | Website | Forums | Established Nov. 2015 |

Hyperion Kronos
Orden des weissen Kreuzes
#8 - 2015-11-13 22:14:26 UTC
Die in a Fire - sounds good.

Ok, Francis, I will keep the capacitor skills in the queue. I added two more skills that I previously oversaw

Gallente Frigate 5 - 9,5 Days
Spaceship Command 5 - 5 Days
Repair Systems 5 - 3,5 Days

Capacitor Emission Systems 4
Energy Grid Upgrades 5 - 7 Days

Capacitor Systems Operation 5 - 3,5 Days
Capacitor Management 5 - 10,5 Days

The concept is obviously to concentrate the skill timeline on the gallente frigates, drones, small hybrid turrets and support skills for quick PVP . Other ships (cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships) weapons and skills for PVE will have to contend with quick and dirty II - III levels.

PS I am listening to Air's "The Virgin Suicides". Fits nicely into the game atmosphere:

Air - Playground Love

You will like it.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-11-13 22:54:59 UTC
Things to think about for later on:


Gunnery to V then some surgical strike will help the hybrid DPS.

Evasive Manouvering V gets you interceptors for fast travel and null stuff eventually

Electronic Upgrades V opens up Covops Frigates and Bombers

Power Grid and Mechanics to V gets Assault Frigates

Adding Caldari Racial frigate III gives access to Garmur and Worm (plus Caldari T1 Frigates)

Adding Amarr Racial Frigate III picks up the Astero (plus Amarr T1 Frigates)

Adding Minmatar Racial Frigate III picks up the Daredevil and Dramiel (plus Amarr T1 Frigates)
Moon Moon Burdy
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#10 - 2015-11-13 23:00:02 UTC
Yep! DIAF = die in a fire (meant in the happy fun learning-by-exploding sense, not the internet RL hate troll sense.)

Here's an excellent article on getting started in pvp. Feyd's Awesome PVP Primer

Things that went boom

Storytime with Moon Moon New stories semi frequently-ish!

Promising Young Murderer, Education Appreciated.

Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#11 - 2015-11-13 23:41:40 UTC
Poisonally, I'd get frigates V.
You get strong boni in your racial frigate. You get strong boni in your navy frigate. You get access quicker to Assault frigates, Interceptors, Electronic Attack frigates.

Destriyer V gets you racial destroyers and access to Interdictors. An Interdictor can be a fun ship for solo 0.0, but shines in it's role as a fleet bubbler. T3ds are great right now, but will be hit with netfs soonish.

CCP is adding a new set of mjd destroyers which will almost certainly be a fleet mechanic.
CCP is adding new Navy Ewar Frigs, which seem to be geared toward solo pvp.

Also, pirate frigates.

I'd say go with your racial frigate to V, because it opens up many more ships than destroyers V.
Shitposting Forum Alt
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-11-14 01:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Shitposting Forum Alt
People here want to pretend frigates are still awesome to use in small gang PVP setting. And sure, they are... but they ain't no T3 destroyers. Train Dessy V and be OP until they nerfbat it, practise with frigs while it trains, and then train your frigs to V after.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#13 - 2015-11-14 12:58:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Firgate v, get an ishkusr,

fit this (downgrade as and when needed)

[Ishkur, Ralph King-Griffin's Ishkur]
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Small Armor Repairer II

1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Small Capacitor Booster II,Navy Cap Booster 150

Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Light Ion Blaster II,Void S
Light Ion Blaster II,Void S
Light Ion Blaster II,Void S

Small Ancillary Current Router II
Small Anti-Explosive Pump II


Hobgoblin II x 5

Worrior II x 5


and go **** with mission runners in the biggest ships you can find,
steal their mission items and blow resberrys in local till one of them plucks up the courage to shoot at you ,
then try kill him, seriously fun fights to be had doing this, does take patience though.

edit: that said the hecate is outrageously fun to fly

iiv been glued to a variation of this for the last couple of months as it can out dps a lot of cruisers and nips around like a stabbed rat
(seriously like 800+ dps hot Shocked)
[Hecate, blkast]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
[empty high slot]

Small Transverse Bulkhead II
Small Transverse Bulkhead II
Small Transverse Bulkhead II
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-11-14 15:30:13 UTC
Hyperion Kronos wrote:
I am currently a 6 mio SP, jack-of-all-trades character. I am slowly moving from making money (through trade and mining while exploring this incredibly complex game world) over to the PVE and PVP combat area.

For PVE I have been concentrating on drone skills (Drones V and , currently Drone Interfacing IV for sentry drones). After that I want to start training for PVP skills. First thing to do will be getting Small Hybrid Turrets to V (T2 light drones will have to wait).

It sounds to me like the best advice that I can give you is to refocus your perspective a bit. First off SurrenderMonkey was totally right with:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
There is no "better".

Second when I saw that you said you had 6 Million skill points spread over: trade, exploration and mining the first thing that I thought was something more along the lines of what Francis said:
Francis Raven wrote:

Better cap skills will let you rep for longer. I would get started on those as well.

If you are just now getting into combat you should not be focusing on level 5 skills and certainly if you have to ask the question then you definitely should not be worrying about it.
Hyperion Kronos wrote:

My question is simple: is it better to go for frigate V first or is it better to concentrate on Destroyer V and the much praised Svipul or a Hecate? Though I started as Minmatar I now fly mainly Gallente ships (Algos, Catalyst) with slightly better skills.

I lean to going for Gallente Frigate V first, because it gives me more choice and cheaper ships (to lose) than Gallente Destroyer V. But as all are raving about those invincible T3 dessies, I am not sure, what to do and would appreciate your advice.

Thanks!


I mean you are talking about going out and PvPing in T2 and T3 ships and from the sounds of it you've not even tried PvP yet. Many players can easily loose their first 100 or so PvP engagements before getting a win. Being successful at PvP in this game is about experience and knowledge and not skill points nor tech. So if you want to take your learning lumps in T3 dessies I hope you can afford to buy a lot of PLEX because it's going to be an expensive school of hard knocks. You can learn the same lesson loosing a 4 million isk frigate that you can loosing a 100 million isk T3.

More to the point what I am saying is that once you have enough experience to make effective use of those level 5 skills you'll know which ones will fit your playstyle better.

Back to what Francis said certainly focus on your "core" or "support" or what I like to call "generic" skills more. There are plenty of skills out there that you will need regardless of what race or ship class you wind up flying most and early on fitting your ship without lots of fitting modules will be a bit of a challenge. Tech II ships are even tighter on fitting and tech II mods eat up your CPU and power grid even more to make the issue worse.

An example would be that if you rush into T2 guns ( especially if you try to fit them on a T2 ship ) without the support skills you could easily wind up needing to use are low slot or two on a CPU and / or powergrid upgrade mods and loose more potential dps by not being able to fit a damage mod than you gain by fitting the T2 guns which are several times more expensive than the T1 versions.

My advice to you would be to train up all four races frigate skill to 3 and all the associated weapon skills to 3. Then try flying various frigates with various fits in various situations and find your playstyle while you learn the game. As you go you'll get a feel as to what your preferences are and then you can focus on training what you use most. You will know what you need to train once you start doing it so just give it a go and see how things turn out. You'll learn from each engagement and know what you need. Again back to what I said earlier if you have to ask us which level 5 to train first then you probably should not be worried about level 5 skills.

And just to preempt any "ya but" arguments I love linking this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1hwoFYA_k
It's an experienced vet on a 2 week old character in a cheaply fit T1 ship killing 2 year old characters in T2 ships.
Suitonia has a lot of helpful PvP videos on that channel if you care to surf around. However as with any advice you get from anyone in this game, don't just believe anything anyone tells you. Go out and try it for yourself and see how it goes.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Hyperion Kronos
Orden des weissen Kreuzes
#15 - 2015-11-15 00:07:57 UTC
Thanks for all your answers! I found some interesting PVP skill plans for new PVP players in chronological order, that I'd like to share with you:

Two threads on reddit:

"I did it all for the newbies"

Thoughts on the skill plans I created

Very good comments on the second one. Here are the corresponding EVEMon files as downloads:

EVEMon Skill Plans for all 4 factions

I hope they are useful for other new PVPers too.


Ralph, thanks for your fit proposals. I still got a mile to go before I can fly those, but I really like your avatar, one of the best, I've seen, reminds me of the famous silent movie Nosferatu by F. Murnau.

Friedrich Murnau. Nosferatu (1922)

(Best Dracula movie to this very day.).

ergherhdfgh - what in the world made you choose this unspeakable, unkeepable two vowels nine consonants name? Not very user friendly, I have to say. But because of your very detailed answer I will forgive you. You are completely right! T2 without the necessary fitting skills - power grid and cpu in the first place - is a waste of time. Thanks for the reminder.

So, I will have to bite the sour apple (german expression) and start the 8-Day-Long Weapons Upgrade V I always dreaded.
All other support skill are already at four, afaik.

Let's have a look at my current, revised skill plan order:

Optimizing T1 for PVP:

capacitor emissions systems 4
thermodynamics 4
nanite interfacing 4
nanite operation 4
drone durability 4
repair systems 5
light drone operation 5

[drone interfacing 4 (for PVE, sentry drones)]

Starting T2 weapons:

weapon upgrades 5
afterwards advanced weapon upgrades 1-3
small hybrid turrets 5

Starting T2 ships

gallente frigate 5
spaceship command 5 ?
hull upgrades 5 ?

After that I could go for the Hecate or start the cruiser tree. Any corrections, other priorities?

How important are the following skills at this point? I put them for the time being at the end of the the queue.

gunnery 5 - 5 Days
science 5 - 3.5 Days
energy grid upgrades 5 - 7 Days
capacitor management 5 - 11 Days
capacitor systems operation 5 - 3 Days
shield operation 5 - 3,5 Days
shield upgrades 5 - 7 Days
shield management 5 - 10 Days

"My advice to you would be to train up all four races frigate skill to 3 and all the associated weapon skills to 3."

Done.

Eve is Easy - 17 Day old Rifter Trial Account PvP

I know this video already and I like the idea of doing this. In fact, this is exactly what I've been planing to do. I got enough money now and it's time to jump in the cold and empty space.

I just want to make sure I don't waste my time on the wrong skills. And this discussion is helping me a lot to avoid this. Everybody has had some interesting thoughts and advice.

Thanks all of you!
Hyperion Kronos
Orden des weissen Kreuzes
#16 - 2015-11-15 00:43:41 UTC
Correction:

capacitor management 5 - 11 Days (gulp!)
capacitor systems operation 5 - 3 Days

move up under

hull upgrades 5

(that will be sometime next year. ugh!)



ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2015-11-15 07:08:56 UTC
Hyperion Kronos wrote:

ergherhdfgh - what in the world made you choose this unspeakable, unkeepable two vowels nine consonants name? Not very user friendly, I have to say. But because of your very detailed answer I will forgive you. You are completely right! T2 without the necessary fitting skills - power grid and cpu in the first place - is a waste of time. Thanks for the reminder.

I thought it was and obvious key mash. I didn't really choose it. I more just mashed some keys and hit enter.

I made this toon first as a scout then decided to use it as a forum alt.

I could bio mass this character and make a brand new one with a somewhat cooler name and a **** tone more skill points but then I'd loose the historical connection for anyone that wanted to look up previous posts of mine and I've gone kind of fond of this character now.

And I'm a little ashamed to admit I kind of like that I'm getting close to 1K likes.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2015-11-15 07:13:36 UTC
Hyperion Kronos wrote:
I got enough money now and it's time to jump in the cold and empty space.

I just want to make sure I don't waste my time on the wrong skills. And this discussion is helping me a lot to avoid this. Everybody has had some interesting thoughts and advice.

They won't be wasted. You will use it all eventually anyway. Plus it's a game. Just play it and learn and get better. Also be aware that no matter how much reading and thinking and planing you do a year from know you will look back on this time with more experience and knowledge and see a way that you could have done it better.

So just get out there and do it and quit worrying about getting it perfect. "mistakes" are learning opportunities. If you could avoid all missteps in your life you'd never grow and there would not be much point in living so loosen up and play a little.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#19 - 2015-11-15 08:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Mephiztopheleze
Have a very close look at the mighty Maulus. Hands down the single most overpowered T1 Frigate in the game. One Maulus can, and does, shut down three Orthrus or big blingy battleships.

Any fleet or small gang should welcome a Maulus pilot with open arms. If they don't, they're either doing Black Ops type stuff, or they're idiots and you should find a new gang.

EWAR is a very solid choice for a newbro looking to contribute to a gang and helps a small gang punch far above their weight. I even wrote an article about it: EWAR For Newbies!

Hyperion Kronos wrote:

Thermodynamics V


Fixed that for you mate.

Thermo V is one of the best things you can possibly train as a newbro looking for peeveepee action. It will allow you to overheat for longer.

Especially in Frigates, overheating is pretty mandatory at the start of a fight. The midrack of my Kitsune often looks like THIS after a fight, although I'm getting better at not burning out my jammers (incidentally, that particular fight was a 5-6 pilot T3 Dessie Down gang taking on, and killing, a Hyperion).

No other skill has saved my ass so many times. Within ~15 minutes of it finishing, I jumped a stealth bomber into a gatecamp and got myself tackled, webbed, scrammed, etc. Overheating the afterburner and the adaptive invulnerability field allowed me to crash gate and saved my Manticore. If I'd had Thermo IV, my AB would have burned out before I reached the gate, both mods were over 95% damaged when I loaded grid on the other side and moonwalked away.

Hyperion Kronos wrote:

The last two capacitor skills don't open up other skills or items. Should I skip them for later?


you can put them off for a little while, but given that Cap Is Life in EVE, those two should be a priority over, say, Sentry Drones (which you don't generally use with Frigates anyways, the oddball Sentry Tristan gatecamp notwithstanding).

Time spent in Engineering and Navigation skills is never time wasted.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#20 - 2015-11-15 12:27:33 UTC
Going to post a divergent opinion.

If, and ONLY if, you can comfortably afford to lose and replace more than one T3 destroyer, they are so insanely OP that training into them is a good short to medium term goal.

If you stop using tactical destroyers, you'll basically have trained Interdictors for free - Interdictor pilots are always in demand in nullsec PVP.

This isn't to say T2 frigs aren't worth training.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

12Next page