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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

First post
Author
Yadaryon Vondawn
Vicanthya
#901 - 2015-11-10 21:44:39 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:
Is there a Amarr fit that can do the Guristas Anomic Base (Supercarrier one) or any fit for that matter that can do it consistently:)?


Screw that mission. Tried a sniping Harbi. Plan was this: Warp in, MJD, snipe them down as they zoom in to me. Didn't work. Didn't lose my ship as I just waited out my MJD reactivation, MJD, then warped out of mission.

Kinda bugs me as the had 0 transversal as they were coming at me, so theoretically I should have been burning them down, but apparently their small sig says, "No."


I forget how fast they go, but yea... For a kite set up transversal matching has to be near perfect as their sigs are so small. I forget exactly how fast they go, so that might be a limit. a Nomen or zealot might be a better choice than a harb or navy harb. oracle I'd say is right out, the large turrets have trouble tracking... although I didn't try a full tracking oracle.

someone posted a rlml light drone prophecy earlier. I can imagine it working, but taking a long time.

I still haven't run it on TQ.


Thanks for the replies so far. If the prophecy setup works I could look into that but it also has to be profitable. On TQ the mission gives less LP than a regular burner. Is there faction droprate higher? I think I ran close to 50 burner missions of the past weeks (I am not declining missions ;) ) but I only got 1 faction drop ever.
Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#902 - 2015-11-10 21:50:55 UTC
The mission, even with a bling ship with bling mods takes AGES to complete. Never do the gurista base burner ever, complete waste of time.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#903 - 2015-11-10 22:38:58 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
The mission, even with a bling ship with bling mods takes AGES to complete. Never do the gurista base burner ever, complete waste of time.

So with the Burner changes and buffs players are talking about in December, is that RIP solo Burners?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#904 - 2015-11-10 23:30:38 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
The mission, even with a bling ship with bling mods takes AGES to complete. Never do the gurista base burner ever, complete waste of time.

So with the Burner changes and buffs players are talking about in December, is that RIP solo Burners?

Until I see proof it's probably Trolling/Rumormongering. There's nothing in the patch notes and no posts in the usual places.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#905 - 2015-11-10 23:42:24 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
So with the Burner changes and buffs players are talking about in December, is that RIP solo Burners?

Until I see proof it's probably Trolling/Rumormongering. There's nothing in the patch notes and no posts in the usual places.

I haven't seen/heard a thing about that outside of one random person posting today. If anyone has something from CCP that would be great.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#906 - 2015-11-10 23:45:19 UTC
On the upside I think I just got a fit for the team burners that's actually faster than the brute force polarized Garmur and a LOT faster than the LML ECM one too.

Funny how these things work out Pirate

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#907 - 2015-11-11 01:05:12 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
On the upside I think I just got a fit for the team burners that's actually faster than the brute force polarized Garmur and a LOT faster than the LML ECM one too.

But I liked the brute force one... X

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#908 - 2015-11-11 01:31:41 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
The mission, even with a bling ship with bling mods takes AGES to complete. Never do the gurista base burner ever, complete waste of time.



Yeah Gurista base is very much a do it with multiple alts (probably assigning mass drones) or do not bother.

If they are moving that way burners will become a multi-alt thing as missions are something you do when no-one else is around. If you are going to go to all the effort to team up real players there are far better things to do with a fleet.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#909 - 2015-11-11 19:49:52 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
On the upside I think I just got a fit for the team burners that's actually faster than the brute force polarized Garmur and a LOT faster than the LML ECM one too.

Other than having to change out the ECM modules, I like this new fit. The only change I would suggest is a T2 missile guidance enhancer in the low instead of the signal amplifier.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#910 - 2015-11-11 19:53:32 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
On the upside I think I just got a fit for the team burners that's actually faster than the brute force polarized Garmur and a LOT faster than the LML ECM one too.

Other than having to change out the ECM modules, I like this new fit. The only change I would suggest is a T2 missile guidance enhancer in the low instead of the signal amplifier.

I'm finding it's very random, but then that's the nature of ECM. Not sure yet if I'll keep with this build or not.

The signal enhancer is to help keep jams on the logi a bit longer and lock them up sooner once they do go out of range and come back. switching out the range script for a precision script for every burner except the jaguar is also something you can do if you have the range on the rockets to allow it.

An alternative method to run this is to stagger the jams on a single logi and then kill the 2nd logi. Might be more consistent if slower.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#911 - 2015-11-11 21:25:51 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
I'm finding it's very random, but then that's the nature of ECM. Not sure yet if I'll keep with this build or not.

The signal enhancer is to help keep jams on the logi a bit longer and lock them up sooner once they do go out of range and come back. switching out the range script for a precision script for every burner except the jaguar is also something you can do if you have the range on the rockets to allow it.

An alternative method to run this is to stagger the jams on a single logi and then kill the 2nd logi. Might be more consistent if slower.

As I mentioned in the other thread, simply applying (and not necessarily succeeding) ECM to both logi as sufficient. Don't ask me why. That's why I like the fit.
Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#912 - 2015-11-11 21:32:01 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Anize Oramara wrote:
I'm finding it's very random, but then that's the nature of ECM. Not sure yet if I'll keep with this build or not.

The signal enhancer is to help keep jams on the logi a bit longer and lock them up sooner once they do go out of range and come back. switching out the range script for a precision script for every burner except the jaguar is also something you can do if you have the range on the rockets to allow it.

An alternative method to run this is to stagger the jams on a single logi and then kill the 2nd logi. Might be more consistent if slower.

As I mentioned in the other thread, simply applying (and not necessarily succeeding) ECM to both logi as sufficient. Don't ask me why. That's why I like the fit.
Twisted

I think I know why. NPCs hate all forms of ewar and the logi will turn their 'guns' on you for using ECM. only their guns are remote reps :P

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#913 - 2015-11-12 11:02:41 UTC
Quote:
10:40:49 Combat 1386 from Burner Jaguar - Wrecks


Orbit was set to 23km, effective distance was somewhat between 24 and 25km. Survived and killed the guy, but WTH? That Jag is supposed to use Autocannons...
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#914 - 2015-11-12 11:49:46 UTC
hehe this can happen. burners are cheater.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#915 - 2015-11-12 13:36:55 UTC
neovita wrote:
Quote:
10:40:49 Combat 1386 from Burner Jaguar - Wrecks


Orbit was set to 23km, effective distance was somewhat between 24 and 25km. Survived and killed the guy, but WTH? That Jag is supposed to use Autocannons...



Well due to dodgy EVE math you have a 1% chance of a wrecking shot even if a hit is otherwise impossible and that wrecking shot will do 3 times damage. Your traversal and range do not effect the chance of a wrecking shot though presumbaly the target must be within fallout.

Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
#916 - 2015-11-12 14:17:10 UTC
I think the target only needs to be within falloffx2 (or whatever the formula is for it). The worse the tracking and the deeper into 'past falloff' a target is, the smaller the chance of a wrecking hit. A wrecking hit does 4x the damage. Wrecking hits are more common if you're within falloff or optimal and within tracking. That's why I recommend an orbit of 25km on the Jaguar but you need good projection skills.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#917 - 2015-11-12 21:07:37 UTC  |  Edited by: neovita
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
neovita wrote:
Quote:
10:40:49 Combat 1386 from Burner Jaguar - Wrecks


Orbit was set to 23km, effective distance was somewhat between 24 and 25km. Survived and killed the guy, but WTH? That Jag is supposed to use Autocannons...



Well due to dodgy EVE math you have a 1% chance of a wrecking shot even if a hit is otherwise impossible and that wrecking shot will do 3 times damage. Your traversal and range do not effect the chance of a wrecking shot though presumbaly the target must be within fallout.



Sorry, but you are completely wrong about that, if a chance to hit calculation returns a false as a result, you won't hit, no matter if the shot would be a wrecking or not in case of a hit. Afaik it is working the same way since the implementation of hit qualities. Nothing dogy abouth the math in eve, pretty simple calculation see here You are still right about x3 damage multiplier, but thats it :)

Anize Oramara wrote:
I think the target only needs to be within falloffx2 (or whatever the formula is for it). The worse the tracking and the deeper into 'past falloff' a target is, the smaller the chance of a wrecking hit. A wrecking hit does 4x the damage. Wrecking hits are more common if you're within falloff or optimal and within tracking. That's why I recommend an orbit of 25km on the Jaguar but you need good projection skills.


Seems like i did miss a change in the falloff mechanics in the past. Back in 2006/07 it got changed and any damage above your (optimal + 2*Falloff) was cut off to 0. I were using that outdated information while facing that enemy. Well according to the Wiki eve is using a completely different formula now.

With 0 transversal that jag would have less than 1/400 chance to hit me at all and even less with my transversal. Calculating in 1/100 odd for a wrecking applied after the chance to hit calculation it seems like i won a mini-lottery today :D

However, it was my fault not being aware of the new (at least for me) formula, but in the end the guy died and i did survive with low armor in my polarized Garmur. Time to pimp my range :)

P.S.: That jag has 500m optimal and 8000m falloff extracted from the Mosaic database (May 2015) and used in my calculations :)
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#918 - 2015-11-12 21:19:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ploing
neovita wrote:
Time to pimp my range :)

P.S.: That jag has 500m optimal and 8000m falloff extracted from the Mosaic database (May 2015) and used in my calculations :)

solution is easy.

use javelin and orbit at 30. will also shreed anything in a good timeframe. with ~40km and one mgc you have enough range for the logis.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#919 - 2015-11-12 21:24:26 UTC
I think the hit change got put in because people didn't like getting frigs at "impossible" ranges getting hit by wrecking shots, and thanks to the damage bonus often the frig would get volleyed. so pretty much if you got pointed by a ceptor the best thing to do was just try and shoot it because eventually you would probably hit it.

I'm not sure where the caps get put in but somewhere probably not too far past optimal +2x falloff, and no idea if there is a tracking cap or not.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

neovita
Born2Burn
Burning Raccoons Outlaws
#920 - 2015-11-12 22:05:16 UTC  |  Edited by: neovita
Ploing wrote:

...
solution is easy.

use javelin and orbit at 30. will also shreed anything in a good timeframe. with ~40km and one mgc you have enough range for the logis.


That's exactly what i wanted to try out, thanks for confirming the yet untested (by me) idea :D

Chainsaw Plankton wrote:

...
I'm not sure where the caps get put in but somewhere probably not too far past optimal +2x falloff, and no idea if there is a tracking cap or not.


There is no cap anymore according to the new formula, the chance to hit is convergating towards 0, theoreticaly it will never reach 0, but the theory is limited by the type and size of variables used to store the values for that calculation inside of the software of course :)