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Why are the goons still around?
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Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#1 - 2015-11-11 04:47:59 UTC
So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Roll

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth
Bag of Doritos
#2 - 2015-11-11 05:22:24 UTC
Iron fist of waffle. Lots of waffles, force fed to the face.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3 - 2015-11-11 05:46:07 UTC
Mainly lots of playing the metagame.

The alliances that have died weren't as good at playing the metagame of spies, infiltrating directors, controlling mass media, and taking advantage of leaked information of upcoming changes from various places.

A lot of the other 'old' alliances are still around just maybe not in exactly the same place or shape.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-11-11 05:46:52 UTC
you need heavy equipment to shift your average goon
Raffael Ramirez
Alcohol Fuelled
#5 - 2015-11-11 06:00:55 UTC
I haven't been in many alliances in the last decade that were situated in 0.0 so probably not the best to answer that, but what I hear it is the amount of effort and work that goes into this alliance that basically out competes everyone else.
Unless eve is your full time job/hobby/life it is hard to even come close to what is provided in the Goon infrastructure.

I really like to play spaceships but what these guys are doing is far beyond anything I would even consider to invest into a game.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-11-11 06:15:55 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Roll


Because instead of complaining on the forums, we are in-game playing (and winning).

Been around since the beginning.
Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#7 - 2015-11-11 06:25:31 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Mainly lots of playing the metagame.

The alliances that have died weren't as good at playing the metagame of spies, infiltrating directors, controlling mass media, and taking advantage of leaked information of upcoming changes from various places.

A lot of the other 'old' alliances are still around just maybe not in exactly the same place or shape.


Ah, I never thought of this aspect, probably the most influential one!

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-11-11 06:28:39 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Netan MalDoran wrote:
So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Roll


Because instead of complaining on the forums, we are in-game playing (and winning).


But you're SMA.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Cecil Montague
PCG Enterprises
#9 - 2015-11-11 07:34:55 UTC
Don't forget Goons have a strong external locus for their community in the Something Awful forums. Events that would lead to a failcascade in other alliances don't cause the same problems with Goons.

"There is no such thing as an effective segment of Totality" - Bruce Lee: The only man with a Chuck Norris killmail.
BirdStrike
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-11-11 08:30:03 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Netan MalDoran wrote:
So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Roll


Because instead of complaining on the forums, we are in-game playing (and winning).


Winning *cough* you just got spanked two nights in a row at pillow fort.
BirdStrike
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-11-11 08:40:48 UTC
Cecil Montague wrote:
Don't forget Goons have a strong external locus for their community in the Something Awful forums. Events that would lead to a failcascade in other alliances don't cause the same problems with Goons.


They seem to rely mostly on reddit footsloggers from KF et al these days. If you look at most fleet comps actual SA goonwaffe are the minority. If goons had to hold sov without the rest of the cfc they'd get crushed pretty quickly. You assume SA is a thing but the KB activity shows redditors being the new majority these days.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#12 - 2015-11-11 08:46:16 UTC
Indeed.
In the very early days of Goonswarm, when BoB had the consistent upper hand, I recall that they were virtually annihalated. Where almost any other alliance would have collapsed, shedding members until it dropped below critical mass and faded from existence, the forums began to be taken over by a swathe of rookie corp characters - all called VCB### (or was it VCBee###?).
The Victory Clone Bees didn't stay around for long - but more than long enough...
Then consider the dissolution of the alliance's assets... The "euthanasia" of Karttoon...

The external tie of SA (not to mention the assumption that everyone is out to get them so it's never been a surprise) has allowed Goonswarm to weather far more than anyone else has been asked to.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2015-11-11 09:00:25 UTC
Raffael Ramirez wrote:
I haven't been in many alliances in the last decade that were situated in 0.0 so probably not the best to answer that, but what I hear it is the amount of effort and work that goes into this alliance that basically out competes everyone else.
Unless eve is your full time job/hobby/life it is hard to even come close to what is provided in the Goon infrastructure.

I really like to play spaceships but what these guys are doing is far beyond anything I would even consider to invest into a game.



That's exactly it, plus they put a huge amount of effort into recruiting and supporting new players.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Robert Warner
Back Door Burglars
#14 - 2015-11-11 09:16:41 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Roll



This is an easy question. Two points:

1. Goons are well organised with a strong management structure and an entire software environment to support their members.

2. You know how in your national sport there are people who always support the team at the top of the league even when they live at the other side of the country?
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#15 - 2015-11-11 09:22:11 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Roll


You've clearly never been to a live goon party.
If you've ever hung out with them, in person, you'd understand why.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-11-11 09:24:23 UTC
People pay attention to them. Being a powerhouse means they create more sense of victory through victory. That attracts more players and more power.

A long time ago we discussed how to defeat goons.

The result? Ignore them. If they invade, don't fight back. They burn jita, shop dodi, etc. They would implode via boredom.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-11-11 11:25:59 UTC
Raffael Ramirez wrote:
I haven't been in many alliances in the last decade that were situated in 0.0 so probably not the best to answer that, but what I hear it is the amount of effort and work that goes into this alliance that basically out competes everyone else.
Unless eve is your full time job/hobby/life it is hard to even come close to what is provided in the Goon infrastructure.

I really like to play spaceships but what these guys are doing is far beyond anything I would even consider to invest into a game.



Yes,
Goons and their allies have a good Meta-Infrastructure, giving them quite an advantage.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Avvy
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-11-11 11:47:49 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
So, I was watching this interesting SOV video-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9_ArJ2mEY and noticed that the only main alliance which survived the time period was the Goonswarm Federation, I'm just curious, as I have lived near goons before, what makes their alliance structure so much different than the other power blocks? Roll


From what I understand of the Goons, is that they socialise outside of the game, they play various games and have a lot of members so that they should be able to do well in any MMO that they wish to play.

I expect you would do ok too, if you started an MMO with lets say a 100+ of your friends.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#19 - 2015-11-11 12:01:09 UTC
They're good pretty much anywhere, and there are a lot of them. That combination is really powerful.

A signature :o
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-11-11 13:04:24 UTC
The EVE Goon organizational structure is more complex and well thought out than most mid sized corporations.
Its also leveraged world wide talent to do this. From a raw business POV we win simply because somehow we figured out how to turn a game into work that we enjoy doing and staying flexible enough to respond to political changes in eve.

In short we survive because we work for it. Love it. And abuse that strength whenever we can without burning down the whole server.
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