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High Sec - Newb Training Area or the only space worth playing in?
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Prof Anarchia
Perkone
Caldari State
#141 - 2015-11-09 12:27:31 UTC
Removing isk and killmails as primary objectives, for what other reason is there to visit dullsec.?

Provide rich story-driven content that encourages/leads players to explore null/wh/low.

Quite straightforward really.

Once you've been to null and found out it's just like anywhere else, but slightly more dangerous, there's little reason to go there.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2015-11-09 13:31:56 UTC
Prof Anarchia wrote:
Removing isk and killmails as primary objectives, for what other reason is there to visit dullsec.?

Provide rich story-driven content that encourages/leads players to explore null/wh/low.

Quite straightforward really.

Once you've been to null and found out it's just like anywhere else, but slightly more dangerous, there's little reason to go there.


capitals, pirate missions, bubbles, 10/10 ded's, adrenaline, fleet fights, black ops battleships, bombs, owning your own space, emptyness, less lag, friendships

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#143 - 2015-11-09 13:34:09 UTC
Players will be where the main markets are.

Those markets will only thrive in areas that are fairly safe.



What's null got to offer where markets are concerned?

What's low-sec got to offer where markets are concerned?


Seems to me the only things that low-sec and null can offer is PvP and not much else.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-11-09 14:33:34 UTC
I wonder how many who are going over all these ideas ever bother to think about what it would be like to run 1 account and only have 1 account to use?

E-Peen mentions PvP fits - neat except that simply mandates bringing along your own alt to do the same missions for repping - mandating 2+ accounts. That's all it will really do.

A discussion a couple years ago between 2 guys made me smile. One was talking about how hard it was to try and move to nullsec. The other talked about how easy it was - "just run a point scout alt..." - the other guy bluntly asked how the hell you could log on and log off that often to get each ship down there...

The disconnect in "alt" between the 2 was amusing and whereas most in this thread could not envision playing this game without a handful of accounts, many who don't leave highsec do run just 1 in this game and that greatly limits a lot of options on how people talk about playing.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#145 - 2015-11-09 15:27:29 UTC
Mocam wrote:
I wonder how many who are going over all these ideas ever bother to think about what it would be like to run 1 account and only have 1 account to use?

E-Peen mentions PvP fits - neat except that simply mandates bringing along your own alt to do the same missions for repping - mandating 2+ accounts. That's all it will really do.

A discussion a couple years ago between 2 guys made me smile. One was talking about how hard it was to try and move to nullsec. The other talked about how easy it was - "just run a point scout alt..." - the other guy bluntly asked how the hell you could log on and log off that often to get each ship down there...

The disconnect in "alt" between the 2 was amusing and whereas most in this thread could not envision playing this game without a handful of accounts, many who don't leave highsec do run just 1 in this game and that greatly limits a lot of options on how people talk about playing.


People choosing to limit themselves to one character/account in a game that is frankly easier to play when you have at least one alt (that costs you a grand whopping extra 50 cents USD per day to have) is there right, but it is not a 'problem'. It's exactly what it looks like, a 'self-limitation'.

I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.
Avvy
Doomheim
#146 - 2015-11-09 15:37:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.


That's part of the problem. You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing, not having to have a second account so you can earn it in high-sec through doing PvE content.

Yet some people still wonder why high-sec is the most populated. Wouldn't mind betting most in null or low-sec have alt account characters in high-sec. That and the fact the best markets are in high-sec.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#147 - 2015-11-09 15:48:07 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.


That's part of the problem. You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing, not having to have a second account so you can earn it in high-sec through doing PvE content.


Who said anything about high sec? I jump cloned to Detorid lol.

I totally disagree with the statement "You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing". That was the idea behind giving people LP for kills in FW, and that was aprt of what turned FW into farmsville.

You don't have to maintain a second account to pvp anyways, you can run one account and make a good living off passive and semi-passive income streams. I choose to PVE.

Quote:

Yet some people still wonder why high-sec is the most populated. Wouldn't mind betting most in null or low-sec have alt account characters in high-sec. That and the fact the best markets are in high-sec.


All of that is probably true, it was recently for me till CCP accidentally fixed null (for me at least) but upping the escalation chances of anomalies and lowering expedition travel distance..

But high sec would be the most populated space no matter what you did. You could multiply null sec earning potential by a factor of 10 and it would still be that way. High Sec is a product of human nature (in this case, the 'aversion to loss' even if that loss is just pixels) rather than game mechanics. Nothing you can do about that and it would be foolish to try.

Look at low sec. for the last 10 years CCP has been throwing rewards at low sec. Lvl 5 missions would designed for low sec (and were only in high sec because of a bug), clone soldiers, mid level DEDs that drop loot better than null sec DEDs (i can't get a Pithum A-Type invuls from null space unless I farm the lowest end null anoms in some place like providence, but you can get them from ANY low sec system that has guristas pirates) and other content, and yet low sec population share doesn't budge.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2015-11-09 16:01:28 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.


That's part of the problem. You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing, not having to have a second account so you can earn it in high-sec through doing PvE content.

Yet some people still wonder why high-sec is the most populated. Wouldn't mind betting most in null or low-sec have alt account characters in high-sec. That and the fact the best markets are in high-sec.


and thats also part of the problem, nullsec should not need to have alts in highsec to make isk, however i do pvp and pve on 1 char

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Avvy
Doomheim
#149 - 2015-11-09 16:01:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.


That's part of the problem. You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing, not having to have a second account so you can earn it in high-sec through doing PvE content.


Who said anything about high sec? I jump cloned to Detorid lol.

I totally disagree with the statement "You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing". That was the idea behind giving people LP for kills in FW, and that was aprt of what turned FW into farmsville.

You don't have to maintain a second account to pvp anyways, you can run one account and make a good living off passive and semi-passive income streams. I choose to PVE.



Yeah, I did actually go to edit to say, it might not be in your case about the destination of the jump clone, but decided to see what you said instead.

Farmville, as in players killing players? What's so different from PvE players farming mission after mission after mission?

I've heard it many times, that people have to PvE to supplement their PvP. So that's not the case anymore (faction warfare doesn't count for RP purposes)? I don't use a second account so it's also of interest.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#150 - 2015-11-09 16:06:49 UTC
Mocam wrote:
I wonder how many who are going over all these ideas ever bother to think about what it would be like to run 1 account and only have 1 account to use?

E-Peen mentions PvP fits - neat except that simply mandates bringing along your own alt to do the same missions for repping - mandating 2+ accounts. That's all it will really do.

A discussion a couple years ago between 2 guys made me smile. One was talking about how hard it was to try and move to nullsec. The other talked about how easy it was - "just run a point scout alt..." - the other guy bluntly asked how the hell you could log on and log off that often to get each ship down there...

The disconnect in "alt" between the 2 was amusing and whereas most in this thread could not envision playing this game without a handful of accounts, many who don't leave highsec do run just 1 in this game and that greatly limits a lot of options on how people talk about playing.


You do not need a alt to do anything in EVE. However, as this is an MMO it makes scene that you need to work with other players to achieve bigger things. I don't have any active alts and do not feel limited.

FYI you can fit a PVP ship that is capable of repairing itself.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2015-11-09 23:21:31 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Players will be where the main markets are.

Those markets will only thrive in areas that are fairly safe.



What's null got to offer where markets are concerned?

What's low-sec got to offer where markets are concerned?


Seems to me the only things that low-sec and null can offer is PvP and not much else.





remember you have the best missions, anoms, exploration, combat sites, ores in nullsec and lowsec and the main logistics of getting stuff is kinda why you join a decent corp.

nullsec and lowsec is how you make it, things dont get fed to you, you have to do a bit of work but the good outweigh the bad imo

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2015-11-10 00:00:45 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mocam wrote:
I wonder how many who are going over all these ideas ever bother to think about what it would be like to run 1 account and only have 1 account to use?

E-Peen mentions PvP fits - neat except that simply mandates bringing along your own alt to do the same missions for repping - mandating 2+ accounts. That's all it will really do.

A discussion a couple years ago between 2 guys made me smile. One was talking about how hard it was to try and move to nullsec. The other talked about how easy it was - "just run a point scout alt..." - the other guy bluntly asked how the hell you could log on and log off that often to get each ship down there...

The disconnect in "alt" between the 2 was amusing and whereas most in this thread could not envision playing this game without a handful of accounts, many who don't leave highsec do run just 1 in this game and that greatly limits a lot of options on how people talk about playing.


People choosing to limit themselves to one character/account in a game that is frankly easier to play when you have at least one alt (that costs you a grand whopping extra 50 cents USD per day to have) is there right, but it is not a 'problem'. It's exactly what it looks like, a 'self-limitation'.

I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.



The game should not be balanced based on multiboxing. Telling new players that minimum two accounts is a requirement to be competitive is going to turn off alot of people from the start. We are already there, but nerfing highsec incomes would just make it worse because as I said before, you either have to join a group or run a scout alt to generate consistent profits outside of highsec.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#153 - 2015-11-10 00:08:02 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Mocam wrote:
I wonder how many who are going over all these ideas ever bother to think about what it would be like to run 1 account and only have 1 account to use?

E-Peen mentions PvP fits - neat except that simply mandates bringing along your own alt to do the same missions for repping - mandating 2+ accounts. That's all it will really do.

A discussion a couple years ago between 2 guys made me smile. One was talking about how hard it was to try and move to nullsec. The other talked about how easy it was - "just run a point scout alt..." - the other guy bluntly asked how the hell you could log on and log off that often to get each ship down there...

The disconnect in "alt" between the 2 was amusing and whereas most in this thread could not envision playing this game without a handful of accounts, many who don't leave highsec do run just 1 in this game and that greatly limits a lot of options on how people talk about playing.


You do not need a alt to do anything in EVE. However, as this is an MMO it makes scene that you need to work with other players to achieve bigger things. I don't have any active alts and do not feel limited.

FYI you can fit a PVP ship that is capable of repairing itself.


Most omnitanked PvE fits can easily permatank one or two aggressors, that hardly matters because when you get hotdropped or tackled by a ceptor or recon you will be facing more incoming DPS than any fit can handle.

The only defense is to have friends nearby or have a scout alt watching your back + a cloak/station to wait them out.

I do PvE in lowsec near where I live and I've attempted it solo; the former is much more viable.
Thierry Orlenard
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#154 - 2015-11-10 00:31:57 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.


That's part of the problem. You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing, not having to have a second account so you can earn it in high-sec through doing PvE content.

Yet some people still wonder why high-sec is the most populated. Wouldn't mind betting most in null or low-sec have alt account characters in high-sec. That and the fact the best markets are in high-sec.



I certainly do, but as it turns out, he is used solely for forum posting.

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#155 - 2015-11-10 01:14:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Avvy wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
I ran 1 account for the 1st 3 years I played EVE. I only got the 2nd because it was a PITA to have to jump clone away from where my group was pvping to my pve ships to make isk. After I got that alt account, life was so much easier I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner. It's just the way EVE is.


That's part of the problem. You should be able to maintain PvP through PvPing, not having to have a second account so you can earn it in high-sec through doing PvE content.

Yet some people still wonder why high-sec is the most populated. Wouldn't mind betting most in null or low-sec have alt account characters in high-sec. That and the fact the best markets are in high-sec.



It baffles my mind why anyone would bother to play Eve with just one account. You need 3 accounts at the very least to play Eve effectively, unless you've got a frustration addiction.
Tohkat Sinawi
Sinawi Exploration Corp
#156 - 2015-11-10 03:07:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tohkat Sinawi
/deleted

nvm
Spruillo
Lord Narg Corporation
#157 - 2015-11-10 03:46:32 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Take some guy to the top of the Eiffle Tower.

Tell him to jump and when he says no you hit him with a bat. Tell him again and when he says no, hit him with a lead pipe. When he still says no, you pull out a gun and kill him.

In the end, you didn't get him to jump, did you?

So if you can't force people to do stuff they really don't want to in real life, what makes you think they won't simply quit when you try to do it in a game.

Trying to force people into low/null that don't want to be in low/null will accomplish nothing but adding to the subscriber base of other MMOs. No matter how many times you beat a kitten, it's not going to turn into a wolf.

Mr Epeen Cool


I LOVE THE WAY U THINK

PLAYIN SPACE TRUCKS VROOM VROOM
Justin Cody
War Firm
#158 - 2015-11-10 04:54:10 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:


time to nerf this theme parked play style into the ground. please by all means quit so the game can get better.
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#159 - 2015-11-10 05:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Joia Crenca
Justin Cody wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:


time to nerf this theme parked play style into the ground. please by all means quit so I can tell some random reddit forum how great the game would have been if all those noobs hadn't quit and caused CCP to go bankrupt because of the loss of subscription income.
(Just fixing things, have a nice day...)
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2015-11-10 08:34:48 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:


time to nerf this theme parked play style into the ground. please by all means quit so the game can get better.


I'm not quitting because you can't come to terms with how others play this game. And if you feel that I, and I alone, am responsible for any game dynamics then I'm flattered but you vastly overestimate me. And if you can't come to terms with that, I suggest you biomass.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.