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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Flying with a joystick!
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Lucian Solomon
KILL MODE ACTIVATED
#1 - 2015-11-09 15:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucian Solomon
Hey CCP,

I was pleasantly surprised with the arrow keys control and the initial moments of flying manual with keyboard were an amazing and even a nostalgic flying experience!

Having flown a variety of virtual simulators and other types of flying games it really looks like this is on the right path to making flying manual without the use of a mouse more and more possible.

As I am sure you guys have plenty on your plate in regards to the upcoming expansions and updates I am wondering if you will be spending any more time on this?

In respect to the current mechanics; right now you can turn full circles left and right, but you can't fly loops up or down.

This would be the primary next step. Also if it would be possible to have the ship roll left and right with the left and right keys and then make the turn with the horizontal looping up and down keys this would be a huge jump forward in the ability to actually fly with a joystick.

Add in a Z axis for rudder control and I'd be getting pedals! :)

Would be simply amazing to fly around and pan the camera with a hat switch!

Look forward to further updates!
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-11-09 17:41:20 UTC
Eve already allows for this.
However you are limited to two axis of movement. Adding rolling would be purely cosmetic as the game doesn't care positionally where you are.

EVE Online does an incredible job of making you think its a ship simulator.. Its in reality a captains simulator. Your ship has absolutely nothing to do with the model you see. As far as the game is concerned you are a dot.

Though that said CCP has gone into true flight sims with Valk.. so things may change. I doubt eve itself will ever have this feature added for obvious complexity and resource issues but CCP likes the metagame within a game concept(and honestly i do too) so its possible they will add something onto eve later that does this.
Wolf Lafisques
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-11-09 17:55:41 UTC
It seems to me that any kind of manual ship flight capabilities would be purely aesthetic. When I think of being able to manually control a vehicle, I'm usually thinking about it in a context where my maneuvers factor into whether I'm getting hit or not. Since you can't manually "dodge" incoming enemy fire in Eve, I feel like having manual controls would be kind of pointless. As Nafensoriel said, Eve is more of a captain's simulator. You don't have a cockpit with sticks and pedals like an airplane, you have a bridge with command consoles that deliver instructions to different sections of the ship.

Ultimately, I suppose I don't really see a problem with your proposal. As long as players aren't given the ability to dodge incoming fire by means of manual maneuvers, then I see no reason for you not to be allowed to do a barrel roll.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#4 - 2015-11-10 01:19:21 UTC
It's not a bad idea. Just not a really needed one. Still, would make for killer "air shows" depending on how responsive Eve could be with precision controls like full-blown flight yoke/throttle/yaw pedals. Apart from that, though, wasted dev time. Maybe if CCP has a moment to work on it and there's enough drive for it, they could put it in. Hell, manual flight commands are in, and I never thought that would happen.

Funny that I just commented on this notion yesterday about it.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-11-10 04:08:32 UTC
/mumbles about the need to etch this information into the post function of the forums

Eve cannot be accurately reflective of atmospheric flight. The manual flight system controls the dot your ship chases. It does not actually control your ship. To have a real world example of this tie a string to an objects front and then drag it around by the string. This is eve flight. If they added a roll command it would probably look really weird simply because it would exclusively apply to the model and thus have to happen entirely independently of what the ship was doing movement wise. At best you can see a slow response cycle of what you tell your ship to do. Its more like telling a pilot how to fly when sitting behind them.

Also the a**hole scientist and engineer part of me is required to post this image since space flight does not equal atmospheric flight. Yah yah game fun still I'm posting it :D.

This is how ships actually turn in vaccums. You cant "turn" like an airplane without some form of resistance.
Lucian Solomon
KILL MODE ACTIVATED
#6 - 2015-11-10 04:27:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucian Solomon
Quote:
Also the a**hole scientist and engineer part of me is required to post this image since space flight does not equal atmospheric flight. Yah yah game fun still I'm posting it :D.


You are indeed right.

As much as I understand your engineering physics 'point of view', (see what I did there) the roll function would indeed only be for an aesthetic arcade type roleplay if you will type of mechanic as a opposed to true representation of vacuum 'flight' physics.

However that being said it would simply be a method of steering that dot through space and giving the end user a means of doing so. Banking/rolling 90 degrees to the right and pulling back simply gives the ability to fly the tightest corner horizontally or the widest desired turn respectively.

Banking 45 and pulling back on Y axis would allow for an upward spiral (again tight or wide) in that same fashion.

One of the first things I noticed with horizontal turns was the ability to fly the tightest turn on a dime within a desired area in space that point and click steering previously did not make possible in the same smooth method.

And from an aesthetics perspective, it might not be the "real deal" but you can't tell me it wouldn't look ridiculously cool and not be an insane amount of fun!

:)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-11-10 13:17:15 UTC
Lucian Solomon wrote:
Quote:
Also the a**hole scientist and engineer part of me is required to post this image since space flight does not equal atmospheric flight. Yah yah game fun still I'm posting it :D.


You are indeed right.

As much as I understand your engineering physics 'point of view', (see what I did there) the roll function would indeed only be for an aesthetic arcade type roleplay if you will type of mechanic as a opposed to true representation of vacuum 'flight' physics.

However that being said it would simply be a method of steering that dot through space and giving the end user a means of doing so. Banking/rolling 90 degrees to the right and pulling back simply gives the ability to fly the tightest corner horizontally or the widest desired turn respectively.

Banking 45 and pulling back on Y axis would allow for an upward spiral (again tight or wide) in that same fashion.

One of the first things I noticed with horizontal turns was the ability to fly the tightest turn on a dime within a desired area in space that point and click steering previously did not make possible in the same smooth method.

And from an aesthetics perspective, it might not be the "real deal" but you can't tell me it wouldn't look ridiculously cool and not be an insane amount of fun!

:)


Go play a flight sim, be it atmospheric or in space, if you want to do that.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-11-10 14:38:45 UTC
Lucian Solomon wrote:
Quote:
Also the a**hole scientist and engineer part of me is required to post this image since space flight does not equal atmospheric flight. Yah yah game fun still I'm posting it :D.


You are indeed right.

As much as I understand your engineering physics 'point of view', (see what I did there) the roll function would indeed only be for an aesthetic arcade type roleplay if you will type of mechanic as a opposed to true representation of vacuum 'flight' physics.

However that being said it would simply be a method of steering that dot through space and giving the end user a means of doing so. Banking/rolling 90 degrees to the right and pulling back simply gives the ability to fly the tightest corner horizontally or the widest desired turn respectively.

Banking 45 and pulling back on Y axis would allow for an upward spiral (again tight or wide) in that same fashion.

One of the first things I noticed with horizontal turns was the ability to fly the tightest turn on a dime within a desired area in space that point and click steering previously did not make possible in the same smooth method.

And from an aesthetics perspective, it might not be the "real deal" but you can't tell me it wouldn't look ridiculously cool and not be an insane amount of fun!

:)


The aesthetic point wasn't so much that it wouldn't "look" realistic more than it might just look strange to the human eyeball in application to EVE. With the way EVEs flight works adding a roll might allow for instances where rolling just wouldn't make logical sense. Like a frigate making a quick hard banking turn. With no real way to link the roll to the "chase" motion you could quite literally have the frigate rolling at full speed in a situation where your brain is screaming "that's impossible".

EVE structurally just isn't setup like other games. It just does a damned good job of making people think it is. If the game code wise was more like say X3.. then yes they could add all sorts of atmospheric stuff and convert it to a full on spaceship simulator. The trouble is all of that stuff just doesn't literally exist in the code and cant be added without heaps of support code.
Don't get me wrong if it was logically possible CCP would be one of the groups to do it. They have a habit of pioneering code and techniques long before they become common place. Heck half of eve is custom built craziness. You wont find a more innovative group anywhere else. It's just to much for to little and it violates an original concept for the game. We are unfortunately a captains simulation and not a pilots simulation.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#9 - 2015-11-10 15:46:32 UTC
whilst this would be purely an aesthetic change, I wouldn't object to it, nor to the dev time spent on it
But I can't really support it above other projects/ideas/etc.....

+/- 0

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Lucian Solomon
KILL MODE ACTIVATED
#10 - 2015-11-10 16:00:06 UTC
Quote:
The aesthetic point wasn't so much that it wouldn't "look" realistic more than it might just look strange to the human eyeball in application to EVE. With the way EVEs flight works adding a roll might allow for instances where rolling just wouldn't make logical sense. Like a frigate making a quick hard banking turn. With no real way to link the roll to the "chase" motion you could quite literally have the frigate rolling at full speed in a situation where your brain is screaming "that's impossible".

EVE structurally just isn't setup like other games. It just does a damned good job of making people think it is. If the game code wise was more like say X3.. then yes they could add all sorts of atmospheric stuff and convert it to a full on spaceship simulator. The trouble is all of that stuff just doesn't literally exist in the code and cant be added without heaps of support code.
Don't get me wrong if it was logically possible CCP would be one of the groups to do it. They have a habit of pioneering code and techniques long before they become common place. Heck half of eve is custom built craziness. You wont find a more innovative group anywhere else. It's just to much for to little and it violates an original concept for the game. We are unfortunately a captains simulation and not a pilots simulation.


I really appreciate your input here, you know what you're talking about. CCP is most definitely a passionate group and it shows.

Who knows what devs are spending hours on this in their free time lol.

We'll see what they come up with in respect to Valkyrie.

Awesome feedback guys :)