These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Allow Invention from BPOs
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#1 - 2015-11-07 12:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Prior to Crius, invention consumed the entire BPC on use and the runs it had were dependent on the BPC's runs. Now, invention only uses one run on a BPC to produce a T2 BPC, which is to say it works exactly like manufacturing. As such, a 200-run BPC can support 200 invention jobs.

With this change, it no longer makes sense to restrict invention to BPCs alone. As such, I propose that BPOs be able to support invention jobs. The time required for invention may or may not be increased to compensate (Although as copying is less time intensive, the increased opportunity cost of using a BPO to invent directly might make this unnecessary, as you would be unable to manufacture with it for the duration of the invention job). This would reduce a lot of clutter and remove one arbitrary step in the invention process for those of us who own the BPO in question, while changing little for those who acquire BPCs from other sources.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-11-07 12:59:52 UTC
I have to agree.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-11-07 13:29:01 UTC
+1 would be a nice little advantage to actually investing in the BPO, which doesn't seem unreasonable.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#4 - 2015-11-07 13:29:41 UTC
But I think the whole point of T2 manufacturing is that there's multiple steps involved and that it's hard to manage all of them.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#5 - 2015-11-07 13:35:27 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
But I think the whole point of T2 manufacturing is that there's multiple steps involved and that it's hard to manage all of them.

I tend to agree with this. T2 is supposed to be a more difficult process that has more potential risks to counter the greater rewards gained from success. So I say -1 unless you can give me something more than the old this does not make any sense to me so change it story.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#6 - 2015-11-07 13:41:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
But I think the whole point of T2 manufacturing is that there's multiple steps involved and that it's hard to manage all of them.

It's not hard to make copies. It's easy. Sickeningly easy.

What it is, though, is tedious and cluttersome.

Having multiple steps is fine. Having arbitrary steps is not. Moon mining is not arbitrary. Reactions are not arbitrary. Component manufacturing is not arbitrary. T1 manufacturing is not arbitrary. Copying is arbitrary.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#7 - 2015-11-07 13:54:18 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
But I think the whole point of T2 manufacturing is that there's multiple steps involved and that it's hard to manage all of them.

It's not hard to make copies. It's easy. Sickeningly easy.

What it is, though, is tedious and cluttersome.

Having multiple steps is fine. Having arbitrary steps is not. Moon mining is not arbitrary. Reactions are not arbitrary. Component manufacturing is not arbitrary. T1 manufacturing is not arbitrary. Copying is arbitrary.



What if the system was just made less "arbitrary"?

Allow invention off of the BPO - but when you do it, it would make its own copies first, and then run from the copies. Thus removing a step on the player side.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#8 - 2015-11-07 14:01:53 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
But I think the whole point of T2 manufacturing is that there's multiple steps involved and that it's hard to manage all of them.

It's not hard to make copies. It's easy. Sickeningly easy.

What it is, though, is tedious and cluttersome.

Having multiple steps is fine. Having arbitrary steps is not. Moon mining is not arbitrary. Reactions are not arbitrary. Component manufacturing is not arbitrary. T1 manufacturing is not arbitrary. Copying is arbitrary.



What if the system was just made less "arbitrary"?

Allow invention off of the BPO - but when you do it, it would make its own copies first, and then run from the copies. Thus removing a step on the player side.

I don't understand the point in simulating that. In fact, I don't even know if that would be possible.

And can you imagine how silly it would be if the same was done for manufacturing from a BPO?

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#9 - 2015-11-07 16:02:31 UTC
I do not believe we should lower the barrier to entry for T2 industry any further but agree the current situation makes little sense. Perhaps a combination of pre and post Crius gameplay where multiple run inventions are allowed up to the maximum on the BPC but the BPC is consumed regardless - you get nothing back.
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#10 - 2015-11-07 18:06:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarisen Gream
Felsusguy wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
But I think the whole point of T2 manufacturing is that there's multiple steps involved and that it's hard to manage all of them.

It's not hard to make copies. It's easy. Sickeningly easy.

What it is, though, is tedious and cluttersome.

Having multiple steps is fine. Having arbitrary steps is not. Moon mining is not arbitrary. Reactions are not arbitrary. Component manufacturing is not arbitrary. T1 manufacturing is not arbitrary. Copying is arbitrary.



What if the system was just made less "arbitrary"?

Allow invention off of the BPO - but when you do it, it would make its own copies first, and then run from the copies. Thus removing a step on the player side.

I don't understand the point in simulating that. In fact, I don't even know if that would be possible.

And can you imagine how silly it would be if the same was done for manufacturing from a BPO?



I don't think it would be that hard -
Basically a script that goes

I want to invent this T2 item - The game then sets up a queue of jobs that need to be complete for that task - when one job complete (i.e. the copy,) it then runs the invention job.

It would be nice to assign a queue system - for somethings, like making copies, and then inventing or manufacturing.

It would stream line the players industrial experience, and give them time to do other things, like get blown up in a trade hub!!!

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Faxat
#11 - 2015-11-07 18:19:59 UTC
+1 this game has enough timesinks; but this will also decrease server load in a constructive way.

Faxat out! o/
Ix Method
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-11-07 21:09:08 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
I don't understand the point in simulating that. In fact, I don't even know if that would be possible.

And can you imagine how silly it would be if the same was done for manufacturing from a BPO?



I don't think it would be that hard -
Basically a script that goes

I want to invent this T2 item - The game then sets up a queue of jobs that need to be complete for that task - when one job complete (i.e. the copy,) it then runs the invention job.

It would be nice to assign a queue system - for somethings, like making copies, and then inventing or manufacturing.

It would stream line the players industrial experience, and give them time to do other things, like get blown up in a trade hub!!

It's not so much it's unfeasible, just pointless.

The complexity of T2 manufacturing comes from setting up supply chains and building components, if you're so inclined. The straightforward act of whacking a blueprint into copy doesn't really add to that, especially when you can just make 500 at once and churn through them.

Travelling at the speed of love.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-11-07 21:42:08 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
I have to agree.


I don't...not unless you want the price of T2 items to go down even more. If you do, fine. But if you are inventor why are you cutting your profit margin even further?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2015-11-07 21:42:58 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
+1 would be a nice little advantage to actually investing in the BPO, which doesn't seem unreasonable.


That "little advantage" would apply to everyone and then in short order it would apply to no one due to price competition.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-11-07 21:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Okay, here is what this kind of a change basically is: a productivity improvement. A productivity improvement makes ALL producers more productive. Since ALL of them are more productive you'll end up with an outward shift in the supply curve meaning that prices will go if the demand curve is downward sloping.

So in the end prices will go down and your profit margins will go down.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#16 - 2015-11-07 23:20:16 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
But I think the whole point of T2 manufacturing is that there's multiple steps involved and that it's hard to manage all of them.

It's not hard to make copies. It's easy. Sickeningly easy.

What it is, though, is tedious and cluttersome.

Having multiple steps is fine. Having arbitrary steps is not. Moon mining is not arbitrary. Reactions are not arbitrary. Component manufacturing is not arbitrary. T1 manufacturing is not arbitrary. Copying is arbitrary.



What if the system was just made less "arbitrary"?

Allow invention off of the BPO - but when you do it, it would make its own copies first, and then run from the copies. Thus removing a step on the player side.


this I like - to take the same length of time as creating an X run BPC, then inventing from said BPC X number of times..... so you either save on job slot, and are unable to use BPO, or you run as 2 jobs, but have to make extra effort, and opportunity cost on that second job slot

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.