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Purchasing Items From the Market Should Always Send ISK to Seller
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Schwein Hosen
DuckPus Fightclub
#1 - 2015-11-06 02:48:03 UTC
Current Mechanic:

Player 1 creates a sell order for 1 rifter at 500,000 isk.
Player 2 creates a sell order for 1 rifter at 500,000,000 isk.
Player 3 tries to purchase his rifter fast. He sees the 500m order thinking it is 500k. He right clicks on the 500m order and buys it. 500m is deducted from Player 3's account AND GIVEN TO PLAYER 1!!!!!!! WHY?!?!?!?!?! (Player 1's order is fulfilled, Player 2's order remains active.)

I work hard for my scams you know... and I can say I've lost over 15b to this over the years. Is this the oldest bug turned "feature" in EVE? I mean this literally makes no sense. It doesn't prevent RMT, it doesn't even prevent Player 3 from being scammed, it just gives the ISK to a random person. Can someone please fix this?
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#2 - 2015-11-06 02:51:40 UTC
Schwein Hosen wrote:
I work hard for my scams you know...

No you don't.
Schwein Hosen
DuckPus Fightclub
#3 - 2015-11-06 03:28:13 UTC
Actually you might be surprised. I'm sure I do about as much work as any other spreadsheet engineer:
- mapping out regions
- minimizing cost
- maximizing spread
- minimizing overlap
- keeping up to date with where big groups are
- pattern analysis on high-hit stations
- custom api tools and email notifications

Although, yeah, I guess it's easier than anything you'd have to do actively. I generate about the same income per month whether I log in or not.... but there's lots of other professions in EVE that work like that.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-11-06 05:39:01 UTC
nah it should simply only deduct 500,000 from player three and give that to player one.

you should not benefit nor should a player be punished because EvEs dated UI can be hard to read

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#5 - 2015-11-06 07:00:14 UTC
i have a hard time feeling sorry for the victim of this scam...

I mean if this is how it works thats crazy...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2015-11-06 07:30:06 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
nah it should simply only deduct 500,000 from player three and give that to player one.

you should not benefit nor should a player be punished because EvEs dated UI can be hard to read

Makes me wonder, what is hard to read about when a number shows many more digits than another number? Or what is hard about noticing the warning message that your purchase is 10000% above average?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-11-06 07:56:19 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
nah it should simply only deduct 500,000 from player three and give that to player one.

you should not benefit nor should a player be punished because EvEs dated UI can be hard to read

Makes me wonder, what is hard to read about when a number shows many more digits than another number? Or what is hard about noticing the warning message that your purchase is 10000% above average?


nothing i was more calling attention to the issue with the market UI

mostly i just find it amusing that the game some how scammed a scammer

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Schwein Hosen
DuckPus Fightclub
#8 - 2015-11-06 08:05:53 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
nah it should simply only deduct 500,000 from player three and give that to player one.


Honestly, I'd prefer this over the way it currently is. At least then, Player 3 wouldn't be "used up" so to speak. (i.e. they wouldn't have got scammed, so they wouldn't have learned any lesson about being more careful and could still be scammed later.)

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
you should not benefit nor should a player be punished because EvEs dated UI can be hard to read


For any other game, I'd agree with this, but.... this is EVE, yo. The devs allow/encourage scamming, and they do give fair warning with the X% above average message.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2015-11-06 08:07:49 UTC
Except the above x% message gets abused by people playing 1isk buy orders, so most items you buy will get that message if they aren't high volume trading in jita.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#10 - 2015-11-06 09:08:29 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Except the above x% message gets abused by people playing 1isk buy orders, so most items you buy will get that message if they aren't high volume trading in jita.


i always double check items that have a warning, even its its just reading he number of zeros. if you are in too much of a rash well thats your problem.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-11-06 09:30:56 UTC
Is it me, or are most people not understanding OPs point?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2015-11-06 09:47:03 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Is it me, or are most people not understanding OPs point?


no we do the current way the game is handling it makes no seance

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Schwein Hosen
DuckPus Fightclub
#13 - 2015-11-06 23:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Schwein Hosen
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Except the above x% message gets abused by people playing 1isk buy orders, so most items you buy will get that message if they aren't high volume trading in jita.


Well you're probably right that there's room for improvement with the message. Two things though:
1. The vast majority of my orders are for common items in trade hub regions, so if you see the popup, it really should be a big red flag.
2. While this may seem counter intuitive, CCP devs do not actively try to make the lives of scammers harder beyond giving players fair warning. Why? Because you are allowed/encouraged to scam in this game! It's a part of the game. ... (it's a part of the game.) I don't do this in games where it's against the rules.

However, CCP devs do sometimes passively make life harder for everyone via mechanics like the above which make literally no sense. This is what I'd like to get fixed.
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#14 - 2015-11-07 00:01:30 UTC
The market broker always sells to the person with the lowest order. If person a wants to pay an extra 10mil above the market price for their item they are free to do so but the broker will still sell to the lowest order. I've always wondered if the scammers who make ridiculously high orders realise this as it seems to be pointless trying to scam people when it is often quite random who will get that ISK if the scam works (particularly in Jita where most of these scams occur).

That being said I don't see any reason to change this mechanic. If anything the extra ISK should go to the broker as an ISK sink or it should return back to the player who made the purchase order.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-11-07 01:02:21 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Is it me, or are most people not understanding OPs point?


no we do the current way the game is handling it makes no seance


It's done this way to make RMT money laundering a bit harder.
Damnskippy
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-11-07 02:32:14 UTC
xttz wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Is it me, or are most people not understanding OPs point?


no we do the current way the game is handling it makes no seance


It's done this way to make RMT money laundering a bit harder.


Just reiterating the reason why it's done this way. Big smile
Schwein Hosen
DuckPus Fightclub
#17 - 2015-11-07 04:07:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Schwein Hosen
xttz wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Is it me, or are most people not understanding OPs point?


no we do the current way the game is handling it makes no seance


It's done this way to make RMT money laundering a bit harder.


If that's seriously their only reason, that's a pretty bad reason. It would be trivial to circumvent this by just using a less commonly traded item and making sure you also own the lowest order at the time of purchase.

Heck, it might even make it easier to RMT, because you could use someone else's high priced order to channel isk to the low order you set up.
Sigras
Conglomo
#18 - 2015-11-07 09:38:56 UTC
Moac Tor wrote:
The market broker always sells to the person with the lowest order. If person a wants to pay an extra 10mil above the market price for their item they are free to do so but the broker will still sell to the lowest order. I've always wondered if the scammers who make ridiculously high orders realise this as it seems to be pointless trying to scam people when it is often quite random who will get that ISK if the scam works (particularly in Jita where most of these scams occur).

That being said I don't see any reason to change this mechanic. If anything the extra ISK should go to the broker as an ISK sink or it should return back to the player who made the purchase order.

Came here to say this...

In Eve everyone uses brokers (even though it's transparent) because everyone pays the broker fee. It makes no sense for the broker not to buy the cheapest item on the market when they're literally all identical. IMHO it should be taken out of the game as an ISK sink and that broker should retire at the expense of his idiot client.

I see no reason to facilitate scams, just as I see no reason to eliminate them... Guess you're just going to have to do more "work"