Market Discussions

First off let me say off first Im a poor newbie pleb. i dont quite yet have the standings for jita and caldari and also im JUST starting my trade skills focusing on brokering, trade accounting etc.

I know the skills i need but what I don't have is the skill to use them. I first looked at EVE Moguls beginning guide where he takes a character with 5,000 isk and by the end of the day has a 15 million character. To me this is amazing iv always used FW plexing as a means for isk income or maybe random combat sigs sometimes even incursions but quite frankly i can't stand it. Ironically i find myself drawn to market PVP if you want to call it that in Jita to fund my pvp fun adventures.

But importantly needless to say after the video mogul posted i went straight to jita started the skill training. All i had was 182 mil from FW plexing, however this was much more than 5k isk so i figured wow i cant wait to make isk!


A day later of station trading, im at 166 milion. Iv lost 16 million isk since i started. So a few questions and ideas i have as to why i went negative.

• I first started off buying into ammo, meta modules such as fleeting propulsion, and +3 standard implants. Dumping most my money in these assets
• the profit margins were slim for but not most of the items i bought with ranges of up to a 500k difference in buy and sell orders.
• I feel a big mistake i made was immiedately reselling some of the items i bought, i dont know if constant sales and broker tax really make that big a difference, so should i FULLY wait till the buy order is bought out? which for some of the things iv chosen seems to take a long time.
• What Items should i invest in? it seems some items i did buy which consistently sold the profit margins were very very slim such as sister's probes.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks for reading guys and sorry if im wordy!
P.S. this is not the character i use for trading im not sure how reputation works in the marketing business but id rather build some confidence before i appear like an idiot on that character :)

Sorry for your bad luck
No, you can start immediately with selling when you receive some items.

I dunno what your problem was. The important thing to remember is that the fees are not static. Except for a 100 isk base fee, they are taken as a percentage of your buy and sell prices. This is why you can begin selling immediately, and make identical orders if you want.

It also means that while setting up your sell order, you can see what your profit will be, *before* you confirm the order. If you paid 2 mil isk for something including all fees, in the sell item window you can see what your sell price is maybe 2.5 mil, and how much of a chunk the sell order fee and transaction tax will take out.

Remember you can lower the fees by increasing your corp standings and faction standings.

The important thing to learn is to predict where the price will be going, before you buy. Also, sometimes you will accept selling at a loss, because you want ISK more than you want profit.
(For this reason I am in fact not looking at profits myself when I sell something, because getting rich is not about profit per item, but profit per time unit. But that is a bit more advanced.)

Some suggestions:

1. Time invested. Figure out what you want to invest. Are you a dabbler and want to put in 30 minutes a day? If so, don't pick the most competitive market in Jita and expect to 'win' (unless you are great at trend analysis). Find less competitive markets in Jita or the outer hubs to go play in.

2. Style. Are you someone that wants to watch/predict trends and buy ahead to sell into the peak? Do you want to arbitrage which is to buy low someplace, then transport (or not), and sell at a higher price. Do you want to market manipulate? Do you want to do region buy orders, transport and sell?

3. Market research. Based on the answers to the above use Evernus and the in game market window. Things like margin, daily sales, price fluctuations, trends, competition/order update cadence. All that plays into what you want to buy and sell. Then create a spreadsheet that captures this info and helps you decide when to buy/hold/sell. Margins are important and broker fees, taxes, transportation costs all have to be factored in.

4. Orders.
- Buying. When you are small, I'd recommend using buy orders. As you scale, must people drop working with buy orders due to the time needed to maintain them.
- Selling. After you've collected the product, of course you need to sell. Based on the market you selected, that may require intensive order maintenance (ladder 3,5,10 orders, then keep one at the top always) or as little as once a day order updates.

5. Tools. Evernus, Spreadsheets, EVE Mogul (tracking), Jeve Assets.

Have fun!!!

Darion

Best tip I had was don't 0.01 to get the biggest profits, be aggressive with your buy and sell orders and make a profit you're happy with. Selling 3 items at 5% profit in an hour is better than selling one item for 10% in 2 hours.

I don't have much playtime so I concentrate on moving things quickly.

I'll have to verify that, but the standings have to do with placing buy order and the tax rate charged on those.
I know that there are sales tax, but it is not affected by the standing.
Also, sales is not like buy order.
And sell orders is not like buy orders., and sell orders is not like sales.

It is important to have an accurate knowledge to avoid errors and confusion by misinterpreting facts.
This avoid losing contact with reality and it is more efficient and valuable to make worthwhile approximations.


First off, I want to thank you for the video link of EVE Mogul starting at 5,000 ISK because I was looking for that video for over 2 months now.
I want to revise it and compare with my systems.
And so, I will transfer 16 m ISK to your ingame account.
And to make matters worst, I will add 16 hundredth of an ISK.


When calculating margin for profit, include the tax.
Other costs to add are the brokers fee and any other costs, time constraints, requirements, etc...
It is important because , on larger value items, the 500,000 won't cover 25% of your profit and you will go under.
For instance, if your expected profit is 500,000 ISK on a 400m BS, 1.5 % tax = 6 m ISK, not 500,000.
You'd be under 5.5 m ISK.
Add broker's fee if you put a buy order, and you're up to 11.5m under.
Do that twice, and you're toast. Your 16m loss is overdone by a 23m loss = 7m more = 45% worst.

So, now that you managed to double your isk, be more careful and look for greater margin of profit.
Most business require 400% profit to succeed and cover operations costs.
You will need 800% profit to expand with a constant trend.

Edit:
Excuse the typos, I'm stuck on a broken touch-screen tablet again.

When I resubbed my trader alt had 239m within a month it was 1bn then my time for play got slashed but got to 4bn within a few months. I then lost a load to eve bet on the Everton v Liverpool game but am slowly building the pile up.
******* Everton! How could they not beat that load of garbage?

For instance, if you were to send a pilot on a courier mission for Battleship contracts.
They may be worth over 1.8b ISK.
You can charge them 2b ISK collateral which is around 15% margin or less.
Will that cover the tax and other costs?
Perhaps not.

So, include the tax in the profit margin and the value of the items.
So, you could charge 2.2b ISK or more for collateral.
If the items are worth around 1.6b ISK, 2b ISK Collateral may be ok.
Just make sure that you calculate it with the percentage of your current tax level.


Do you plan to post the items which will be hauled by courier as a Buy Order???
That way, you may make more profit.
However, if you plan to have items hauled, do not expect the price offered to remain fix as a trend, go higher or be aware that it can go down.
In fact, the price , when you haul, can even go down before the items is hauled.

In that case, even if you include the 15% margin in the collateral with other costs, you still risk to lose on the business opportunity.
Keep track of how much you lose, percentage(s), actual amounts, and other details.
Those loses will have to be included in future businesses.

That way, you can use your loses to learn and to improve your business.
You can also find when you can be more lax and so on.


If the pilot fails the hauling, you win the profit by collateral.
If the pilot succeed, you can sell the item for a profit given that the price doesn't go down.
Even worst than that, some players post offers on items like that and do what is called a margin trading scam.
They withdraw the offer to buy once the items has sold.
Beware of that too.
But either way, on hauling, if the price does go down, and it does, the margin of profit will be less than a profit.
It is still better than to be stuck with the items and no one to buy them.
Or , it is still better than to lose the ISK altogether.


I have been led to test Station Trading , by placing buy and sell orders.
It reduces the risk of losses from hauling (by the expected price on profit, going down) and can diminish the time load.
Hauling can take days to complete, depending.
Station Trading can also take days too, however.

I am still testing it.
I'm at the point of placing more buy orders to try to buy items from players and to sell them for more.

I will then look at which items can be bought for less, and where, and place buy orders there.
I will then try to sell those by placing sell orders there or , if necessary, have them hauled.

But with more studies, and with more analysis, the margin of profit can increase.
The thing is that, even research, mostly is part of the Planning phase, which comes before Analysis in systems.
That also includes Studies and so on.
Many systems in business don't have a planning phase.
They branch directly into an analysis phase.
Some newer systems don't even have an analysis phase anymore.
They branch directly into a design phase.
From the design phase, they are directly branched into the implementation phase which is where they are maintained from.
The support phase is where all business is conducted.
Any changes to that support phase leads to other parts of the business system.
Trading is a business system. Or, trading are business systems.