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[Focus Group] Tactical Destroyers

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O2 jayjay
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2015-10-28 04:12:51 UTC
Wrecktum Yourday wrote:
While we're at it can we get pirate frigs out of novice plexes.


Like the most powerful frig in thw game? Worm im looking at you!
Feyrin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#182 - 2015-10-28 12:56:56 UTC
O2 jayjay wrote:
Wrecktum Yourday wrote:
While we're at it can we get pirate frigs out of novice plexes.


Like the most powerful frig in thw game? Worm im looking at you!


The worm is being addressed seperately in the balance smorgasboard thread. -20 CPU -1 lowslot. Please discuss there. Lets try and keep this on topic.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#183 - 2015-10-28 15:12:50 UTC
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Hecate and Jackdaw are fairly well balanced. 10mn AB Confessor is fairly strong but relies on cap for everything it does (armor buffer builds are pretty weak IMO). Svipul is just way too strong. Not just 10mn Svipuls but also mwd fits just because base speed (speed while scrammed) on prop mode is still faster than frigates so it will still dictate range even in most of those scenarios.

The prop mode for the Svipul and Confessor need to changed to a % increase to speed provided by AB or MWD, and not an increase to the base speed. In autocannon fits I practically never switch to sharpshooter mode or defensive mode. The base speed increase on prop mode helps you mitigate more damage when fighting vs cruisers than defensive mode, and allows for more transversal/range dictation for damage application when fighter vs things smaller than cruisers than sharpshooter mode.


The Confessor is only good because you can fit a 10mn ab in the first place. If you fit a 1mn you are just an expensive lossmail waiting to happen.
Take it away and the Confessor went from good to lol.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

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Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#184 - 2015-10-28 17:12:56 UTC
Losing the 10mn on the confessor would hurt pve, not PvP so much. I love beam confessor a lot, and you have to have max fitting skills and use a lot of meta items to make it fit, so with the need please don't reduce cpu/pg doing so would be detrimental to a lot of great but not op fits. Especially for the confessor.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#185 - 2015-10-28 19:22:24 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Hecate and Jackdaw are fairly well balanced. 10mn AB Confessor is fairly strong but relies on cap for everything it does (armor buffer builds are pretty weak IMO). Svipul is just way too strong. Not just 10mn Svipuls but also mwd fits just because base speed (speed while scrammed) on prop mode is still faster than frigates so it will still dictate range even in most of those scenarios.

The prop mode for the Svipul and Confessor need to changed to a % increase to speed provided by AB or MWD, and not an increase to the base speed. In autocannon fits I practically never switch to sharpshooter mode or defensive mode. The base speed increase on prop mode helps you mitigate more damage when fighting vs cruisers than defensive mode, and allows for more transversal/range dictation for damage application when fighter vs things smaller than cruisers than sharpshooter mode.


The Confessor is only good because you can fit a 10mn ab in the first place. If you fit a 1mn you are just an expensive lossmail waiting to happen.
Take it away and the Confessor went from good to lol.


The Confessor is just fine with a 5mn MWD. I've never used a 10mn AB on the Confessor, for philosophical reasons, and I've had plenty of success with it. Perhaps I am doing it "wrong," but the ship really does work without a 10mn AB.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#186 - 2015-10-28 19:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
FT Diomedes wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Iyacia Cyric'ai wrote:
Hecate and Jackdaw are fairly well balanced. 10mn AB Confessor is fairly strong but relies on cap for everything it does (armor buffer builds are pretty weak IMO). Svipul is just way too strong. Not just 10mn Svipuls but also mwd fits just because base speed (speed while scrammed) on prop mode is still faster than frigates so it will still dictate range even in most of those scenarios.

The prop mode for the Svipul and Confessor need to changed to a % increase to speed provided by AB or MWD, and not an increase to the base speed. In autocannon fits I practically never switch to sharpshooter mode or defensive mode. The base speed increase on prop mode helps you mitigate more damage when fighting vs cruisers than defensive mode, and allows for more transversal/range dictation for damage application when fighter vs things smaller than cruisers than sharpshooter mode.


The Confessor is only good because you can fit a 10mn ab in the first place. If you fit a 1mn you are just an expensive lossmail waiting to happen.
Take it away and the Confessor went from good to lol.


The Confessor is just fine with a 5mn MWD. I've never used a 10mn AB on the Confessor, for philosophical reasons, and I've had plenty of success with it. Perhaps I am doing it "wrong," but the ship really does work without a 10mn AB.

Agreeing with this after playing the pvp setups at eve vegas. For those who weren't there, they had eight prefit t3d's to chose from. The MWD confessor was the best ship in this meta, only being countered effectively by mwd svipuls with autocannons, neuts and scram. Obviously this isn't reflective of TQ, but it was awesome playing with t3's and being able to get so many fights in such a short period of time. The hecate rail scram-kite fit was the only fit that was completely awful, but that was because the fights were around a beacon with no gate in. The jackdaw had issues with its resist profile when there were so many svipuls and confessors running around. The confessor fits were both beams with 10mn ab or mwd, both with a web instead of point.

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elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#187 - 2015-10-28 20:36:02 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
The Confessor is just fine with a 5mn MWD. I've never used a 10mn AB on the Confessor, for philosophical reasons, and I've had plenty of success with it. Perhaps I am doing it "wrong," but the ship really does work without a 10mn AB.


Maybe but you cannot sig-tank with a mwd. I guess your fit uses pulses instead of beams so being close is what you want. The 10mn beam fit is different to fly that's why I fly it this way.

But this is also a matter of taste. How you like to fly and I may be completely different and that is fine. Let's not discuss taste.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#188 - 2015-10-29 04:16:09 UTC
10mn beam fessor >>>>>> so hard over any other confessor
Ray P
Unquestionable Prosperity
Commonwealth Vanguard
#189 - 2015-10-29 17:25:01 UTC
Instalock Svipuls have to go
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#190 - 2015-10-29 20:03:06 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
The Confessor is just fine with a 5mn MWD. I've never used a 10mn AB on the Confessor, for philosophical reasons, and I've had plenty of success with it. Perhaps I am doing it "wrong," but the ship really does work without a 10mn AB.


Maybe but you cannot sig-tank with a mwd. I guess your fit uses pulses instead of beams so being close is what you want. The 10mn beam fit is different to fly that's why I fly it this way.

But this is also a matter of taste. How you like to fly and I may be completely different and that is fine. Let's not discuss taste.


Completely agree. Different play styles for different folks.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#191 - 2015-10-29 23:38:45 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
The Confessor is just fine with a 5mn MWD. I've never used a 10mn AB on the Confessor, for philosophical reasons, and I've had plenty of success with it. Perhaps I am doing it "wrong," but the ship really does work without a 10mn AB.


Maybe but you cannot sig-tank with a mwd. I guess your fit uses pulses instead of beams so being close is what you want. The 10mn beam fit is different to fly that's why I fly it this way.

But this is also a matter of taste. How you like to fly and I may be completely different and that is fine. Let's not discuss taste.


Completely agree. Different play styles for different folks.


I fly with a mwd and beams and fly without a 10mn ab. Flys like a big slicer little omen navy issue. All of which do great without oversized ab's.
Erik Kalkoken
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#192 - 2015-10-30 11:02:14 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Important information from the focus group so far:

I'll start us off with one tidbit that we've already decided on (so that it doesn't derail other discussion): We plan on reducing Tactical Destroyer insurance payouts to T2 levels (30% of current payout) in the December release.

As mentioned in the latest CSM summit minutes, we are also planning on removing Tactical Destroyers from Small FW complexes.


+1

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Erik Kalkoken
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#193 - 2015-10-30 11:39:57 UTC
I think the most annoying feature of the T3Ds is the Insta Warp Trick. It basically makes them gate camp proof, which is just too much for an already very powerful ship class.

Here are some ideas on how to mitigate that without having to change basic game mechanics:
1. Disallow mod changing while holding gate cloak. This way they can't use the insta trick if they jumped while being in the wrong mode.
2. Introduce a slight delay before mod change is effective. The insta trick only works, because the mod change effect is instant. If there were a slight delay, e.g. 1 sec. That would give an insta locker enough time to catch the T3D.

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Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#194 - 2015-10-31 14:52:50 UTC
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#195 - 2015-10-31 14:56:39 UTC
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#196 - 2015-10-31 16:26:29 UTC
Capqu wrote:
heres my cv https://zkillboard.com/character/1107018389/
i'm a frigate master


Smile I don't need to look at that, I know. Best of luck!

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#197 - 2015-11-02 23:36:01 UTC
Any update on plans for these ships, or how the focus group is going?
per
Terpene Conglomerate
#198 - 2015-11-05 18:56:57 UTC
just give AF's bonus: +50% dmg vs t3d's - two problems solved with one hit
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2015-11-06 07:30:22 UTC
AFs need either a large tank improvement or a large speed improvement IMO. I'm not saying they should stand up to t3d, but they should at least feel like they have a role, as very heavy tackle or something.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2015-11-06 07:55:08 UTC
per wrote:
just give AF's bonus: +50% dmg vs t3d's - two problems solved with one hit


Design a frigate to kill a ship designed to kill frigates... Roll

The wishlist is pretty much complete...