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[December] Module Tiericide - Warp Disruption Field Generators

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Travis Uchonela
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#141 - 2015-11-05 19:38:41 UTC
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
As somebody who does solo PvP almost exclusively (and for the folks who don't believe me, check my killboard) I am in favor of these changes. This is for the simple reason that PvP options which allow one party to have minimal risk are horrible. When I undock I know I'm almost certainly dead, and I'm going to die outnumbered, webbed, scrammed, jammed, bubbled, and unable to so much as scratch the paint on my attackers. Such is life. If I wanted to fight a duel against an equal opponent I would play Starcraft. If I want a challenge from a game with a huge element of the unknown I will play Eve; its the occasions when I get it right and win against the odds, or take a target out and moonwalk off grid, that make it all worth it.

If you think as an Eve player that you should have access to ships that are untouchable to any class but their own (read: any of the current long-point kiting setups) you need to re-evaluate what game you are playing. Your play-style received a huge buff with the introduction of the rapid light missile launcher, giving kiting cruisers a viciously effective way to kill fast tackle that was un-coutnerable by the tackle pilot.

Now, with this change and missile disruptors, just a smidgen of that power is being clawed back. If "I might be forced to commit to a fight not of my choosing" makes you stop undocking then you shouldn't have been playing Eve in the first place. As for "the blob will win now", well, I would turn that question around and ask why ten guys should be able to attack a thousand well organized players with no fear of getting hit back?


This says it all. Finally, something to tip the balance away from unhittable orthrus cancer.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#142 - 2015-11-05 19:46:16 UTC
Travis Uchonela wrote:
FearlessLittleToaster wrote:
As somebody who does solo PvP almost exclusively (and for the folks who don't believe me, check my killboard) I am in favor of these changes. This is for the simple reason that PvP options which allow one party to have minimal risk are horrible. When I undock I know I'm almost certainly dead, and I'm going to die outnumbered, webbed, scrammed, jammed, bubbled, and unable to so much as scratch the paint on my attackers. Such is life. If I wanted to fight a duel against an equal opponent I would play Starcraft. If I want a challenge from a game with a huge element of the unknown I will play Eve; its the occasions when I get it right and win against the odds, or take a target out and moonwalk off grid, that make it all worth it.

If you think as an Eve player that you should have access to ships that are untouchable to any class but their own (read: any of the current long-point kiting setups) you need to re-evaluate what game you are playing. Your play-style received a huge buff with the introduction of the rapid light missile launcher, giving kiting cruisers a viciously effective way to kill fast tackle that was un-coutnerable by the tackle pilot.

Now, with this change and missile disruptors, just a smidgen of that power is being clawed back. If "I might be forced to commit to a fight not of my choosing" makes you stop undocking then you shouldn't have been playing Eve in the first place. As for "the blob will win now", well, I would turn that question around and ask why ten guys should be able to attack a thousand well organized players with no fear of getting hit back?


This says it all. Finally, something to tip the balance away from unhittable orthrus cancer.


just because RLML's combined with the orthrus is OP doesn't mean too counter it we should have something else OP, instead they should look at nerfing the OP things so everythings balanced instead of OP stuff across the board

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#143 - 2015-11-05 20:11:46 UTC
More 30+km scrams? How about no.

1) Other ships do this ALREADY. If you do this then there is no reason to use them instead except in limited scenarios. A counter already exists. Its no one's fault but their own that they are incapable of understanding this.

2) If the problem is people complaining about "certain skirmish ships" (the Mordu ships), maybe you should try fixing those ships instead of nerfing every nanoship that has the audacity to fly anything less than a 60+km sniper.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman
Sahriah BloodStone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#144 - 2015-11-05 20:19:28 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:


Changes
Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs.


♥♥♥♥♥

Sahriah Bloodstone

No.Mercy // Triumvirate

"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
Alexis Nightwish
#145 - 2015-11-05 20:25:40 UTC
Reduce the skill requirements for low meta WDFGs. Currently they ALL take Propulsion Jamming V and Graviton Physics IV. Why not make it more like:

Meta 0: Propulsion Jamming III, Graviton Physics II
Meta 1: Propulsion Jamming IV,  Graviton Physics III
Meta 5: Propulsion Jamming V,   Graviton Physics IV
Meta 8: Propulsion Jamming V,   Graviton Physics III

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Alexis Nightwish
#146 - 2015-11-05 20:27:53 UTC
The Restrained variant doesn't have a reduction in sig radius penalty?

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Alexis Nightwish
#147 - 2015-11-05 20:29:54 UTC
Lastly, please make it so that all scripted WDFGs prevent ANY targeted ship from jumping through stargates. Currently it is just capitals and that a) makes no sense, and b) is dumb.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#148 - 2015-11-05 20:46:32 UTC
Also, if the problem is that CCP thinks people are not using HIC's enough, maybe they should stop giving ships bubble immunity.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#149 - 2015-11-05 20:48:28 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
  • CONCORD Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -70% (-5); Velocity Bonus -80% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 21km][/list]

    • Concord Hic point needs to be inline with the concord cloak so needing L5 skills but is % better than all other faction mods
    Then it gives us people who did train the skill to L5 a bonus mod for just been better than every one elce.
    Querns
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #150 - 2015-11-05 20:53:33 UTC
    Tappits wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:
  • CONCORD Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -70% (-5); Velocity Bonus -80% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 21km][/list]

    • Concord Hic point needs to be inline with the concord cloak so needing L5 skills but is % better than all other faction mods
    Then it gives us people who did train the skill to L5 a bonus mod for just been better than every one elce.

    By that logic, there should also be officer Warp Disruption Field Generators that are even better than the CONCORD one.

    (Cloaking 5 crew, what up.)

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
    Teroh Vizjereij
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #151 - 2015-11-05 20:53:59 UTC
    As someone on reddit mentioned : Is now the time to ask for a more "fun" overheat mechanic for the Warp Disruption Field Gens?

    I mean sure, cycle time is a useful on the bubble, but most other ewar mod get range boni from it and a faster cycle time on nos/neuts makes sense. It still feels odd to get cycle time on scripted gens. It technically even hurts you to heat scripted gens in case you get neuted.
    Lloyd Roses
    Artificial Memories
    #152 - 2015-11-05 21:08:29 UTC
    Alexis Nightwish wrote:
    Reduce the skill requirements for low meta WDFGs. Currently they ALL take Propulsion Jamming V and Graviton Physics IV. Why not make it more like:

    Meta 0: Propulsion Jamming III, Graviton Physics II
    Meta 1: Propulsion Jamming IV,  Graviton Physics III
    Meta 5: Propulsion Jamming V,   Graviton Physics IV
    Meta 8: Propulsion Jamming V,   Graviton Physics III


    It doesn't quite matter since prop jamming V is a requirement for the ship they're fitted on.
    Styphon the Black
    Forced Euthanasia
    #153 - 2015-11-05 21:16:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Styphon the Black
    Querns wrote:
    Styphon the Black wrote:
    I really don't like this new warp scramble ability. I think that if it is added that it shouldn't be as large as a bubble as a none scripted warp bubble is.

    My worry is that this is an Area Effect weapon and it is too powerful. So you are not only able to shut off warping ability, you are able to turn off propulsion MWDs modules and MJD from spoiling without having to target and having any limits other than the amount of people that can fit within the bubbles influence.

    Added ability = A small sphere of influence. Just like Warp Scams are shorter range than Warp Disrupters.

    What is going to happen is that fleets will stop using MWD and switch to or have a backup AB.

    The warp scramble effect is only available when using the Focused Warp Disruption script, which turns the bubble into a single-target effect. The bubbles emitted by Heavy Interdictors do not shut off MWD and MJD.


    I thought that was what was being implied was a "bubble". So where does it say it is a Focused single target effect?
    Alexis Nightwish
    #154 - 2015-11-05 21:26:38 UTC
    Lloyd Roses wrote:
    Alexis Nightwish wrote:
    Reduce the skill requirements for low meta WDFGs. Currently they ALL take Propulsion Jamming V and Graviton Physics IV. Why not make it more like:

    Meta 0: Propulsion Jamming III, Graviton Physics II
    Meta 1: Propulsion Jamming IV,  Graviton Physics III
    Meta 5: Propulsion Jamming V,   Graviton Physics IV
    Meta 8: Propulsion Jamming V,   Graviton Physics III


    It doesn't quite matter since prop jamming V is a requirement for the ship they're fitted on.

    Good point. I was only thinking about the skills, not the ships. My stance on the Grav Physics skill still stands.

    CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

    EVE Online's "I win!" Button

    Fixing bombs, not the bombers
    Querns
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #155 - 2015-11-05 21:37:28 UTC
    Styphon the Black wrote:
    Querns wrote:
    Styphon the Black wrote:
    I really don't like this new warp scramble ability. I think that if it is added that it shouldn't be as large as a bubble as a none scripted warp bubble is.

    My worry is that this is an Area Effect weapon and it is too powerful. So you are not only able to shut off warping ability, you are able to turn off propulsion MWDs modules and MJD from spoiling without having to target and having any limits other than the amount of people that can fit within the bubbles influence.

    Added ability = A small sphere of influence. Just like Warp Scams are shorter range than Warp Disrupters.

    What is going to happen is that fleets will stop using MWD and switch to or have a backup AB.

    The warp scramble effect is only available when using the Focused Warp Disruption script, which turns the bubble into a single-target effect. The bubbles emitted by Heavy Interdictors do not shut off MWD and MJD.


    I thought that was what was being implied was a "bubble". So where does it say it is a Focused single target effect?


    From the OP:

    Original Post wrote:

    Changes
  • Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs


    • Read the original post here.

    Warp Disruption Field Generators only have one script. This script turns the bubble into a single-target disruption beam with an effectively unlimited strength. This is useful for tackling supercapitals.

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
    Ransu Asanari
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #156 - 2015-11-05 21:46:00 UTC
    This seems like a good idea, considering the announced capital changes, where it will be possible to tackle a Supercapital with conventional warp disruption, but requiring much more warp disruption strength.

    • No Storyline HIC module? If you're adding Meta and Faction modules, why not Storyline as well to give them more value, combined with the additional changes being made to Data sites?

    • Why is the Faction module being given to Sansha? They already have a good LP store with Pirate Faction ships. Why not give it to the Syndicate LP store, since they received the Surgical Warp Disrupt Probe? Or one of the other factions that doesn't have a unique item, like Society of Concious Thought in Geminate, or Thukker Tribe in Great Wildlands?

    • I like that the focused script now disable scrams and MJD. I do think that the range is a bit OP however for a scram effect. I agree with Sutonia that the range should be reduced and enabled with a separate script.

    Odris Meza
    Wingman Wielding Goose
    Safety.
    #157 - 2015-11-05 22:05:32 UTC
    Alexis Nightwish wrote:
    Lastly, please make it so that all scripted WDFGs prevent ANY targeted ship from jumping through stargates. Currently it is just capitals and that a) makes no sense, and b) is dumb.

    Shouldnt it's just oneshot any ship insteed?
    Ariete
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #158 - 2015-11-05 22:13:53 UTC
    Currently a infinite point will stop a capital from warping or jumping through a gate. Could we see a change.

    Current Infinite point script remains as is ie stop warping but has the stopping gates removed.

    A new script added to stop any ship from using a Gate, Wormhole, Cyno or docking, however it would not effect the ability of warping off.


    Here's some of the more insane ideas that I have heard over the years.


    • Web Bubble
    • Neut Bubble
    • Damp Bubble
    • Jam Bubble
    • Mass Bubble, increases mass of any ship in the bubble by 100%
    • Solid Bubble, A bubble that is solid so as it expands it pushes ships out of the way.
    Desorem
    SUN PRAISING INTENSIFIES
    DarkSide.
    #159 - 2015-11-05 23:43:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Desorem
    I do like the changes in WDFG, but things of such power should come with restrictions - 1 per ship for example.
    People WILL abuse zero-dps 4-5-6-generator hic with 200k ehp, because who gives a puck 'bout dps when you can scram 4-5-6 targets at 30+ km. So hard capping amount of WDFGs have to be a first step in this changes.

    Well, okay, 35km+ is TOO MUCH, but if you make it shorter then, lets say ~20km none will want it but gatecampers.

    And make generator with new script impossible to activate if hic is less then 35 km away from stargate. Pirate
    FT Diomedes
    The Graduates
    #160 - 2015-11-06 00:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
    Swiftstrike1 wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:
  • Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs
    • This is by far the most meaningful and best part of the changes. +1,000,000

    On a side note, do (scripted) Warp Disruption Field Generators benefit from Skirmish Warfare Links that increase point range? If not, they should do.


    No, they do not.

    PS - and it is good that Skirmish Warfare Links do not affect the WDFG, because that would:

    1. Be OP
    2. Require that the mod get nerfed back into the Stone Age to compensate for the effect links have on it.

    Once we see the joys of Deadspace Capital Energy Neutralizers and 5000MN MWD's, it will become readily apparent why the WDFG's required a significant buff. As a side effect, it makes a very effective small gang ship even better and makes nano ships cry. Best announcement ever!

    CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.