These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Navy Cruisers - Navy Bellicose
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-11-05 06:10:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I can't wait for the new Navy EWAR frigates. I'm so impatient, in fact, that I have already come up with some ideas for Navy EWAR cruisers! Here's the one I really, REALLY want!



Bellicose Fleet Issue
Minmatar Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile explosion radius
10% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness
Misc Bonus:
-80% penalty to Target Painter optimal range and falloff
+25% Stasis Webifier range

Slot layout: 5 H, 5 M, 4 L, 0 Turrets, 5 Launchers
3 Rig Slots, 400 Calibration
Fittings: 675 PWG, 390 CPU
Defense (shields / armour / hull): 2100 / 2000 / 1900
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500 / 480s / 3.125
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / warp speed / align time): 235 / 0.51 / 11,550,000 / 3 / 8.2s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15/15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km / 375 / 6
Sensor strength: 15 Ladar
Signature radius: 120




The Navy Bellicose trades target painter range for a more powerful target painter, while giving up some targeting range and drone bay in order to get that stasis webifier range bonus. It is built for short-range combat against smaller targets, whether they be frigates, destroyers, or just really slippery cruisers. This isn't a particularly fast cruiser but I feel that's a reasonable trade-off considering how powerful it is. You can use it to camp gates, fend off smaller ships, or get a friend to hold them down while you obliterate them. With its high scan resolution, it can lock smaller targets quickly, making it ideal for ambushes.

A pilot with high skills will get a similar range with both tech 2 target painter and navy webifier. These come together at about as far as your Rage heavy assault missiles will go--about 17km. The ship can mount five launchers, giving it similar raw DPS to a standard Bellicose, although the Navy variant gets an explosion radius reduction on top of that. So this ship can hit smaller ships particularly hard in comparison to other cruisers.



Summary of differences this ship has from standard Bellicose:

Bonuses

  1. 5 launchers instead of 4
  2. stronger target painter bonus
  3. a small webifier range bonus
  4. +1 high slot
  5. higher fitting capacity, about 1 HAM launcher worth plus a tiny bit of extra powergrid
  6. about 50% more hit points, but with extra armor and less structure
  7. a 25% bigger capacitor with marginally higher regen rate
  8. 25% higher scan resolution


Penalties

  1. short target painter range
  2. reduced targeting range by a small amount (Bellicose already has a short targeting range)
  3. much smaller drone bay/bandwidth
  4. -1 max locked target (from 7 to 6)
  5. slightly lower max velocity

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#2 - 2015-11-05 07:58:55 UTC
Instead of a explosion radius, i'd put an explosion speed bonus on that thing. Because, whatever will try to come at it, will be speed-kiting out of over-heated linked pimped web range. You already have TPs to deal with the sig problem.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#3 - 2015-11-05 08:23:52 UTC
Patience is a virtue, Reaver.

I would rather have our problem children get some love first.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-11-05 09:46:33 UTC
Nyalnara wrote:
Instead of a explosion radius, i'd put an explosion speed bonus on that thing. Because, whatever will try to come at it, will be speed-kiting out of over-heated linked pimped web range. You already have TPs to deal with the sig problem.

You might be right.

I picked explosion radius because no matter how small it gets, it always helps application up until you hit 100%. So either one stacks well on any sig-tanking target. I also picked it because explosion velocity bonuses seem a lot more common.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#5 - 2015-11-05 09:57:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyalnara
While i'm looking at numbers: without hull range bonus, fed navy range with links and overheat is 22.4km, true sansha is 24km. Would be 28km with fed navy, or 30km with true sansha, when including hull bonus. That may be a bit overpowered. I'd consider lowering the web range bonus to (just) 15-20%.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-11-05 10:11:10 UTC
Nyalnara wrote:
While i'm looking at numbers: without hull range bonus, fed navy range with links and overheat is 22.4km, true sansha is 24km. Would be 28km with fed navy, or 30km with true sansha, when including hull bonus. That may be a bit overpowered. I'd consider lowering the web range bonus to (just) 15-20%.


With links and overheat is a tall order. Without either of those, it has just 17.5-18.75 km web range. Keep in mind that the Huginn gets a maximum 300% bonus to web range, and it's going to be only a bit more expensive than the Navy Bellicose. Also keep in mind that the Navy Bellicose has an abysmally low targeting range for a cruiser, just under 50km with max skills and no boosts, while the Huginn has 125km base targeting range, one of the highest in the game.

I don't think 25% web range is overpowered. If anything it could be given more, but I feel 25% is plenty for its intended usage, also it's a role bonus so I don't want to hand it too much outside its skill bonuses. The Navy Bellicose is specialized for short-range tackling, webbing out to long point range while putting the target right within its sights is just what this ship does best. It doesn't really have a lot of other options.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#7 - 2015-11-05 10:38:52 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
With links and overheat is a tall order. Without either of those, it has just 17.5-18.75 km web range. Keep in mind that the Huginn gets a maximum 300% bonus to web range, and it's going to be only a bit more expensive than the Navy Bellicose. Also keep in mind that the Navy Bellicose has an abysmally low targeting range for a cruiser, just under 50km with max skills and no boosts, while the Huginn has 125km base targeting range, one of the highest in the game.

I don't think 25% web range is overpowered. If anything it could be given more, but I feel 25% is plenty for its intended usage, also it's a role bonus so I don't want to hand it too much outside its skill bonuses. The Navy Bellicose is specialized for short-range tackling, webbing out to long point range while putting the target right within its sights is just what this ship does best. It doesn't really have a lot of other options.


While we're discussing web range, why not go straight for a +50% range just like the Vigil Fleet Issue? Would be more consistent when compared at other ship lines, like Blood Raider which possess the 100% range from frigate to BS...

Also, i still consider links and OH to be extremely relevant, because (at least from my point of view, which is, a pilot in a small FW entity often running linked gangs versus bigger fleets) links (and OH) are pretty much required as soon as you need to face anything bigger (as in, numbers in each fleet). And anyway, every fleet big enough tend to have at least someone bringing a boosting alt.


Also, while the huginn got indeed a way longer web range, the hull is also way costlier. 160M-180M for a huginn, and the fleet bellicose would most likely end in the same price bracket as the stabber fleet, which is around 60-80M. (And any entity regularly fielding Recons provide ewar links. And has mandatory fed navy webs.)

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-11-05 10:51:21 UTC
Nyalnara wrote:
While we're discussing web range, why not go straight for a +50% range just like the Vigil Fleet Issue? Would be more consistent when compared at other ship lines, like Blood Raider which possess the 100% range from frigate to BS...

Also, i still consider links and OH to be extremely relevant

I'd like to see just one ship with a small range bonus to webs. It gives it an interesting edge over ships without web bonuses, while preventing it from stepping on the toes of range bonus ships.

I'm trying to make this into a solo combat ship, much like the Navy EWAR frigates. I'm sure people will make them work as components of a fleet, but they'll really be best served operating on their own. Their EWAR is tailored to assist them in applying their decent damage to the target, as opposed to other EWAR ships which are tailored to assist a fleet, while their damage is just the icing on top.


Links and overheating are relevant, but they offer the same buff to anyone. If something is overpowered with links and overheating, it's probably overpowered without.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."