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You want to know what else would improve Eve?

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Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-01-06 17:26:16 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
Why not do both together, Perhaps a website as someone suggested that has EFT fucionality and some 'suggested' fits for various frigs/dessies. Aurora could link you there and you could pick up the basics.

no suggested fits (and imo way too complex/confusing for a newbies but that goes for EFT, too) but otherwise pretty close to your idea:

http://aurora.evefit.org/
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#22 - 2012-01-06 17:28:45 UTC
Professor Alphane wrote:
I don't think all you guys can put your noob first day in EVE heads on and see how important fit testing functionality is to EVE.


Just another example of CCP's lacksidasical attitude to development. IMO

They want the noob experience to be more streamlined, they should at least be good enough to provide basic funtionality in there game without having to really on 3rd party developments that may well end up depreciated if said developers situatoin/ focus should change.


There's another good reason to leave it out. Fit management is not a newb activity but a complex one that requires a fairly sophisticated understanding of game mechanics. If CCP threw EFT at newbies it would make the game harder to learn, not easier.

Currently they can access the fit screen and learn to put a ship together. They can get fits from corp mates, etc... When they are ready, they can download EFT and play around with their own ideas.
Race Drones
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2012-01-06 17:34:14 UTC
ISD Alassien wrote:
I think this would be a great idea is it would all be intregated within EVE - although we shouldn't take away credit from the Third Party devs that have put into over the years Big smile, but I would love to see this ingame.

[SARCASM]
Yes, put inside the game an Office Suite, Radio FM, GPU and GPU analyzer software, Network Analyzer, Tetris, SSH Terminal, a Virtual PC with EVE Operating System, CYGWIN, Memory Analyzer, Disk Defragmenter ... and all the Harry Potter's movies in DivX or XDiv format.
[/SARCASM]

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.

The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.

All is in "The Matrix".

See Beyond the Obvious.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#24 - 2012-01-06 17:38:52 UTC
Marduk Nibiru wrote:
Fit management is not a newb activity but a complex one that requires a fairly sophisticated understanding of game mechanics.



It's both and an excellent oppurtunity to introduce people to what each aspect of the ship stats actually mean.

Of course it could be 'noobified' ie choose a ship and only modules that actually fit appear in your options making it less confusing than EFT.

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Selinate
#25 - 2012-01-06 19:38:44 UTC
Race Drones wrote:
ISD Alassien wrote:
I think this would be a great idea is it would all be intregated within EVE - although we shouldn't take away credit from the Third Party devs that have put into over the years Big smile, but I would love to see this ingame.

[SARCASM]
Yes, put inside the game an Office Suite, Radio FM, GPU and GPU analyzer software, Network Analyzer, Tetris, SSH Terminal, a Virtual PC with EVE Operating System, CYGWIN, Memory Analyzer, Disk Defragmenter ... and all the Harry Potter's movies in DivX or XDiv format.
[/SARCASM]


EFT >> (is much greater than) all of that stuff you mentioned.

If this is the worst troll I get in this thread, I think it's going to be a good day...
Selinate
#26 - 2012-01-06 19:39:15 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
By that logic they should also provide macro ratters and miners because they have become 'integral' to certain players activities in game.


Ok, how about "integral and not harmful to the game"
Selinate
#27 - 2012-01-06 19:40:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Selinate wrote:
However, why should there have to be third party developers for something already so integral for a vast number of players to the game play of Eve?
Same reason as for all third-party developers: because CCP won't make anything that's even remotely as functional and because EFT / Pyfa already exists — robbing those guys of their work is just mean.


If they wanted to concentrate on FIS so much more, then something like this would be a pretty great improvement, and I'm sure that if they put their mind to it, they can come up with something just as functional.

Also, this is Eve and you support suicide ganking. Robbing those guys of their work is just mean :P
Selinate
#28 - 2012-01-06 19:43:27 UTC
David Grogan wrote:
why make software at a cost to CCP when the software is already there, tried n tested, and is free to use?

it would make no financial sense for CCP to divert a team of programmers away from getting dust514 finished and making Eve awesome again just to make an app that already exists.


A) because it will be in game so I won't have to alt-tab.

B) It is tried and tested, but unfortunately it doesn't update immediately or easily. Just having something in the client that immediately pulls the newest information from the modules would be great.

C) It doesn't break immersion.

D) For the noobs who hear (one of the first things they might hear when they get into Eve, btw) "Get EFT to fit your ship", it helps keep them from downloading EFT from an unreliable source and possibly download malicious software.

Also, I really doubt it would take a team of programmers to do this... maybe one, two at the most could easily program something to do this.
Selinate
#29 - 2012-01-06 19:50:44 UTC
MNagy wrote:
Since the apps are created already - I would rather CCP concentrate their time into fixing broken things or adding new things.

CCP gives you access to your API key so you can go out and develop your own apps to help fitting/learning/manage eve.

I 'agree' with you as to why it isnt in eve, but sometimes there just isnt time for things like that.

So for that reason - I am content with teh API key and alternate google functions to do the work while CCP concentrates on the big picture.


The API key has many more uses than just for third party fitting program purposes, so it wouldn't make it obsolete or anything like that.

Also, while I agree there are many broken parts of Eve that need fixing, or parts of Eve that just desperately DESPERATELY (desperately) need touching up, this would simply be a nice smaller addition to the game to make it so that new pilots don't end up having to go look for third party programs right off the bat in order to fit ships without having to buy all the modules. It would just streamline things a bit more.

In addition to this, as a side request, I would very much like it if this portion of Eve had a function where it could simply buy all the modules of said fit off the market at the lowest price, and fit it to your ship. Little things like this seem insignificant, but it goes a long way in games with more *stuff* like Eve has in making it a more popular, streamlined game while still retaining the complex nature of it.
Selinate
#30 - 2012-01-06 19:51:47 UTC
John Caesse wrote:
Yes, CCP should use finite resources to build things that already exist. That sounds like a great way to improve the game (especially if by "improve" you mean "spend needless money and bring the company one step closer to insolvency")


lol I'll say it again, if this is the worst kind of troll I'm getting in this thread, I think I'm doing pretty well.
Hibernator X
Standing Wave Society
#31 - 2012-01-06 20:15:45 UTC


As a mac user I have few options for skill planners and fitting tools. I would really appreciate an integrated fitting tool at the very least... see here lies the problem: The game is somewhat unplayable without EFT, well mean sure you can play it but basically I need to "buy" my test fits. Most importantly, when we get new ships, modules, and all of the tweaks, buffs, and nerfs, an internal fitting tool will always be UP TO DATE. An integrated fitting tool leaves less margin for error.

I realize EFT is awesome but it distracts from the actual game experience, it looks like any other generic program on windows.

Don't undervalue the subtlety of mood and nuance. Is this FiS or ALT-TAB SiS (spreadsheets in space)?
Dbars Grinding
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#32 - 2012-01-06 22:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
weekly ranked pvp fights would actually. Kinda like a pvp arena or alliance tournament. TBH i think CCP is adding something like this in the summer. There was a video somewhere of a ccp member talking about this.

I have more space likes than you. 
Selinate
#33 - 2012-01-06 22:21:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Selinate
Dbars Grinding wrote:
weekly ranked pvp fights would actually. Kinda like a pvp arena or alliance tournament. TBH i think CCP is adding something like this in the summer. There was a video somewhere of a ccp member talking about this.


I actually recommended something like this maybe a year ago. Makes me laugh a little inside to hear they're considering it...

You want to know what the answer I got was?

*TROLLOLOLOLOLOL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO TROLLOLOLOL*

I'm paraphrasing of course.
Race Drones
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-01-07 03:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Race Drones
Selinate wrote:
Race Drones wrote:
ISD Alassien wrote:
I think this would be a great idea is it would all be intregated within EVE - although we shouldn't take away credit from the Third Party devs that have put into over the years Big smile, but I would love to see this ingame.

[SARCASM]
Yes, put inside the game an Office Suite, Radio FM, GPU and GPU analyzer software, Network Analyzer, Tetris, SSH Terminal, a Virtual PC with EVE Operating System, CYGWIN, Memory Analyzer, Disk Defragmenter ... and all the Harry Potter's movies in DivX or XDiv format.
[/SARCASM]


EFT >> (is much greater than) all of that stuff you mentioned.

If this is the worst troll I get in this thread, I think it's going to be a good day...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Pay attention to the paragraph that say: "This sophisticated understanding can be lacking in some people with certain forms of brain damage, dementia and autism"

Ignorance is curable, Stupidity is not.

The "Planet of the Apes" is not science fiction, is a daily reality.

All is in "The Matrix".

See Beyond the Obvious.
Roosterton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2012-01-07 03:06:29 UTC
Hire said "third party developers" to work on the in-game version.

Everybody's happy.
Selinate
#36 - 2012-01-07 03:32:53 UTC
Race Drones wrote:
Selinate wrote:
Race Drones wrote:
ISD Alassien wrote:
I think this would be a great idea is it would all be intregated within EVE - although we shouldn't take away credit from the Third Party devs that have put into over the years Big smile, but I would love to see this ingame.

[SARCASM]
Yes, put inside the game an Office Suite, Radio FM, GPU and GPU analyzer software, Network Analyzer, Tetris, SSH Terminal, a Virtual PC with EVE Operating System, CYGWIN, Memory Analyzer, Disk Defragmenter ... and all the Harry Potter's movies in DivX or XDiv format.
[/SARCASM]


EFT >> (is much greater than) all of that stuff you mentioned.

If this is the worst troll I get in this thread, I think it's going to be a good day...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

Pay attention to the paragraph that say: "This sophisticated understanding can be lacking in some people with certain forms of brain damage, dementia and autism"


lol, what part of what I said made you think that I missed your rather childish/asinine attempt at sarcasm? Go back to 4chan, I think they're looking for someone to lower their average IQ even more...
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#37 - 2012-01-07 05:07:14 UTC
Marduk Nibiru wrote:
I don't agree. Software is my field and as an architect, developer, etc...I know that the cheapest way to get the job done is to let someone else do it. This is why instead of suffering deeply from the "Not invented here" syndrome, I make use of as many dependable 3rd party libraries that I can find. If they're free all the better.

This allows me to get more done and faster. I can concentrate on adding features, securing my code, TESTING IT, and otherwise improving the program rather than reinventing a bunch of wheels.

If CCP were to do as you propose then somewhere in Iceland there would be a conversation something like so:

"The users want a fitting tool embedded in the program."

"Isn't there already a fitting tool?"

"Yes, but they want something like EFT."

"Why don't they use EFT?"

"I'm not really sure, it works quite well...better than our code in many respects...maybe they don't like to tab out of the game?"

"Well, OK...lets do it."

"Well, we already have a pretty packed schedule..."

"Put the Faction War and hisec wardec fixes back on the back burner...we'll do them in a future release."

"Roger."

The third party programs enhance the game without forcing CCP to neglect the more important stuff. If you really want it to be IN the game, turn it into a website that works with the in-game browser.



Considering how well posts with suggestions on how to potentially fix these issues are tromped into the dirt around here, I find this a little amusing, but mostly ironic.

CCP has forecast the direction of the next expansion as "War," while making slight improvements to FW mechanics on SiSi; and yet, every post that even mentions war on the forums-excepting FW lettercons-gets firmly and impolitely podded. Just like getting ganked one gate into lowsec.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
stoicfaux
#38 - 2012-01-07 05:30:28 UTC
I can just imagine how horrid and user-UNfriendly a CCP designed EFT/pyfa interface would be.

Right click, highlight weapons sub-menu, wait for sub-menu to pop up, mouse over projectile sub-menu, wait for menu to pop-up, select large sub-menu, ooops, the menu is being drawn partially off screen, so stop, drag the fitting window lower on the screen and repeat the process. Of course this assumes you have the dexterity to keep your mouse over the pop-up menus otherwise the menus immediately close. And the font on the menus will be as small as the galaxy map menu font.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Valei Khurelem
#39 - 2012-01-07 05:31:16 UTC
I DEMAND MINMATAR SLAVE GIRLS!

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
#40 - 2012-01-07 06:35:52 UTC
I've said years ago that CCP NEEDED to add an in-game EFT because it was slightly ridiculous you absolutely had to have a 3rd party app just to play the game.

EFT/Pyfa/etc is 100% vital to playing, for pretty much anything, PvP, PvE, exploration or even checkin how much m3 a certain ship can have with your skills + rigs. No other 3rd party app comes close to being vital, only one you could argue for is EvEmon. But games playable without it, just convience.

But buying and fitting a ship just to check stats? hell a few years ago the fitting screen wasnt as informative.


Maybe at this point it would be pointless to add it, but it is a bit......strange/sad that over the years an in-game EFT was never added but support for it grew. Like fact now we have updated fitting screen obviously inspired by it, can save/load fits or import/export them etc


tl:dr Yea fine maybe its a waste of resources for most of us BUT it cant be argued that its not good practice to have a 3rd party app as a requirement to play a game.
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