These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How Do I Deal With Ninja Salvagers?

Author
Ettu Brute II
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-01-06 17:25:51 UTC
SnowxCrash wrote:
Nowhere in my suggestion does it prevent ninjaing loot/salvage, it simply changes it from griefing to real conflict with consequences, which you seem to have completely ignored in your post.

Ninja salvaging is NOT griefing.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-01-06 18:04:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kessiaan
Axel Korgain wrote:
What then of wrecks in 0.0?


I always thought wrecks in 0.0 were a bit weird - the space cops say you can't tractor them if they don't belong to you (I've never been able to come up with any other reasonable explanation as to why you can't tractor a yellow wreck), but the space cops are busy eating space doughnuts 40 jumps away.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-01-06 18:25:49 UTC
Kessiaan wrote:
Axel Korgain wrote:
What then of wrecks in 0.0?


I always thought wrecks in 0.0 were a bit weird - the space cops say you can't tractor them if they don't belong to you (I've never been able to come up with any other reasonable explanation as to why you can't tractor a yellow wreck), but the space cops are busy eating space doughnuts 40 jumps away.


yeah, actually that should be one of those 'little things' that are put in that thread that CCP wants
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-01-06 19:12:31 UTC
Axel Korgain wrote:
I am of the completely OPPOSITE opinion to the OP.

I remember being shocked completely when concord destroyed my shiny new cruiser when I fired on a wreck to test its missiles.

OWN A WRECK?? Oh right.. yeah of course you got shot and you still own your wreckage... NO?? They own the wreck. How odd.

What then of wrecks in 0.0?

Should Concord have little wreck observer ships that tag along in your mission to tag electronically who owns what space garbage.

It's ludicrous that anyone but the original owner should own the wreck. If the original owner was an outlaw then it's fair game.

Isn't picking over wreckage a little ghoulish anyway?

I say to hell with the topic and remove wreck ownership entirely and let the fastest ant win.


Didn't the original owner own the loot as well? Then why isn't it just as ludicrous that loot isn't fair game as well? Your standpoint doesn't fly, and it's been the standpoint of many others within this thread and it's pathetic that this is the primarily 'reason' people give against my suggestion.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-01-06 19:15:21 UTC  |  Edited by: SnowxCrash
Axel Korgain wrote:


Ok then if you are so up to date and learned you should then be totally aware of how all your long winded well written arguments amounts to...

Waaaaghh My salvage...Lol

Hey I don't even do missions I just buy mission loot and salvage from who ever wants to sell it to me. Lol


Huh, is this the best people can do? All of my arguments, if they're so pitiful and incomplete as to amount to 'waaaaaah my salvage' then why haven't you given some real reasons showing why it's so flawed instead of resorting to what's basically grade school taunting.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#66 - 2012-01-06 19:20:55 UTC
Riedle wrote:
Quote:
Well, first off, almost all of the 'solutions' you've all given assume a single pocket mission, so giving solutions which are contingent upon that situation is hardly a solution.



Learn to use your scanner.
There are multiple solutions to your question you are simply saying that you are not willing to do them.
Fine, but stop the whining already.


I can't blame you for missing the post where I stated I already implemented the majority of the solutions available prior to making this thread due to how long it's become, but that's what I did. That's why I'm disappointed with the suggestions given and proposing changes to the system in place.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-01-06 19:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Riedle
SnowxCrash wrote:
Riedle wrote:
Quote:
Well, first off, almost all of the 'solutions' you've all given assume a single pocket mission, so giving solutions which are contingent upon that situation is hardly a solution.



Learn to use your scanner.
There are multiple solutions to your question you are simply saying that you are not willing to do them.
Fine, but stop the whining already.


I can't blame you for missing the post where I stated I already implemented the majority of the solutions available prior to making this thread due to how long it's become, but that's what I did. That's why I'm disappointed with the suggestions given and proposing changes to the system in place.


Well then I guess you missed your own recent post where (as quoted above) you said it was difficult in a mission where there are multiple rooms to detect a ninja salvager in another room which is why I said learn to use your scanner.

You are clearly suffering from a disease called knowitallitus.
kick that then maybe you will learn something.

The only real solution is to salvage the wrecks first. If you can't be botherd to do that then HTFU and stop whining.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-01-06 19:58:08 UTC
There are no ninja salvagers. There are only salvagers. All salvage is free-for-all. If you do not salvage it yourself immediately after the rat pops, anyone is free to salvage it.

Anyone is also free to loot the wreck but that bit does give you rights to shoot the bugger. Not that it matters as 99.9% of the time it will just result in your carebearmobile getting WTFPWNED as the guy returns in a PvP ship.

This thread needs a lock.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-01-06 20:00:56 UTC
Riedle wrote:
SnowxCrash wrote:
Riedle wrote:
Quote:
Well, first off, almost all of the 'solutions' you've all given assume a single pocket mission, so giving solutions which are contingent upon that situation is hardly a solution.



Learn to use your scanner.
There are multiple solutions to your question you are simply saying that you are not willing to do them.
Fine, but stop the whining already.


I can't blame you for missing the post where I stated I already implemented the majority of the solutions available prior to making this thread due to how long it's become, but that's what I did. That's why I'm disappointed with the suggestions given and proposing changes to the system in place.


Well then I guess you missed your own recent post where (as quoted above) you said it was difficult in a mission where there are multiple rooms to detect a ninja salvager in another room which is why I said learn to use your scanner.

You are clearly suffering from a disease called knowitallitus.
kick that then maybe you will learn something.

The only real solution is to salvage the wrecks first. If you can't be botherd to do that then HTFU and stop whining.


Impractical solutions aren't real solutions. If I fit probes I lose my drone aug which, because I'm a new player, limits me to 40km range and many npcs will be too far which means I lose dps and there are npcs where if I don't have my drones I can't get through their rep. Why? It's because I'm NEW and lack training for dps. If I give up 2 slots, for a salvager and tractor then there would probably be l3s where I couldn't get through the rep of some npcs. You're right though, I can be a little bit too arrogant for my own good, but it's with good cause. In my short time in Eve I've been soaking up information as much as I can. Between that accumulation, paying attention to the minutiae of fitting and other activities I've had occasion to teach players who've been playing for years new things they overlooked which were painfully obvious to me, things which let me create fits they were surprised by. All said, I'd be humbled and most gratious for information that offered a practical solution, but no one has given that, you haven't given that, and pretending you have, in order to dismiss my suggestion, is just as impractical in proving a point as your suggestions have been.
Osmodeus
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-01-06 20:01:03 UTC
You should be grateful they arent stealing your mission items. If you hate it so much that they salvage your stuff, equip a salvager and do it your self. Or pop all the wrecks. Another idea is to find someone to salvage for you and offer to split it 50/50. I used to salvage peoples missions for them for half the salvage profits. But seriously, galactic garbage disposal is a profession, get over it.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#71 - 2012-01-06 20:02:08 UTC  |  Edited by: SnowxCrash
double post
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2012-01-06 20:06:57 UTC
Osmodeus wrote:
You should be grateful they arent stealing your mission items. If you hate it so much that they salvage your stuff, equip a salvager and do it your self. Or pop all the wrecks. Another idea is to find someone to salvage for you and offer to split it 50/50. I used to salvage peoples missions for them for half the salvage profits. But seriously, galactic garbage disposal is a profession, get over it.


People say get over it, move on, I have, IG, being here on this forum is besides the point. That I refuse to accept that things have to be the way they are just bc that's how they've been simply means I prefer things to change to something more favorable.
Osmodeus
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-01-06 20:09:41 UTC
You are wasting your time. CCP will not change it. They have stated that numerous times. Your points are irrelevant and you have been given alternatives to your frustrating issue. Ive been in your spot before. When i see a ninja i just started popping wrecks. After about 5 or 6 wrecks they just went away.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-01-06 20:44:19 UTC  |  Edited by: SnowxCrash
Osmodeus wrote:
You are wasting your time. CCP will not change it. They have stated that numerous times. Your points are irrelevant and you have been given alternatives to your frustrating issue. Ive been in your spot before. When i see a ninja i just started popping wrecks. After about 5 or 6 wrecks they just went away.


Good for you. The one's where I was stayed, and would follow me to the next mission, and stay. If I warped out and let npcs I was fighting get them, they'd just warp back to the mission, and wait. Apparently my points are irrelevant, so irrelevant that no one's been able to demonstrate, with reason, with a solid argument, why that's so. They tell me I'm wrong, I give reasons why what they're saying isn't applicable, why it isn't a real solution. Some choose to leave afterwards, others just stay quiet, but no one, no one has fully addressed all of my concerns with any sort of finality. A few pretend they have, but that's nothing but pretense.

I do concede, this is all probably a waste of time, but as I said earlier I find a certain draw to forums. The discussions and arguments which occur there can offer insight and information not otherwise available.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-01-06 20:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: SnowxCrash
Sigh
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#76 - 2012-01-06 20:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
then why haven't you given some real reasons showing why it's so flawed instead of resorting to what's basically grade school taunting.


just because you don't accept the reasons we have given does not mean that we have not given them. You're clearly just putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring us when we attempt to explain the reasoning behind it. That's fine; you aren't going to change anything with this thread.

Every single point you've made, and more, has been done a thousand times before on these forums, multiple times a month, since 2008. You haven't brought any new ideas to the table..So no, you aren't going to be taken seriously, since you're just repeating a whine that has gone on since forever.

Quote:
They tell me I'm wrong, I give reasons why what they're saying isn't applicable, why it isn't a real solution.


The problem here is that you think "solution" is "end-all counter that will forever remove your ninja problems with no opportunity for the ninjasalvager to retaliate". That is not what it is. It's more dynamic than that. The fact that you can counter ninjasalvagers by warping out and letting them take aggro is true. It is a very simple counter, and one that they can defend against by being careful and warping out themselves, but it still counts as one. Other options include having a friend salvage behind you (outsalvage him), salvaging as you go (He will still probably salvage faster once he arrives, but there will be no prior wreck field for him to clean up), or shooting the wrecks in hope that they leave (though most ninjas will stay on grid and make you pop every one).

Certainly the best counter to ninjasalvagers is to stop being so **** at running them that loot/salvage make up a huge proportion of your income.

EDIT: Tied for best counter is missioning in lowsec or nullsec.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-01-06 21:12:52 UTC  |  Edited by: SnowxCrash
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
then why haven't you given some real reasons showing why it's so flawed instead of resorting to what's basically grade school taunting.


just because you don't accept the reasons we have given does not mean that we have not given them. You're clearly just putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring us when we attempt to explain the reasoning behind it. That's fine; you aren't going to change anything with this thread.

Every single point you've made, and more, has been done a thousand times before on these forums, multiple times a month, since 2008. You haven't brought any new ideas to the table..So no, you aren't going to be taken seriously, since you're just repeating a whine that has gone on since forever.
hm, Sounds like this issue is a bigger problem than I thought. Thousands you say, since 2008? Wow. To think such a small change as I've suggested here would please so many...thousands, that's quite a lot people people.

You say I'm just ignoring things, but correct me if I'm wrong, and I do mean that please do correct me, but everyone of those reason's I've responded to with reasons detailing why they're not acceptable, why in many case's they don't apply, and why this suggestion I've made here is more favorable, and after doing so people don't have much else to say. Maybe it is because it's such an old topic, but I would think , if it was such an old topic, if what I was saying wasn't so new then they'd have solid answers ready to give, they'd have a prepared checklist of stuff they could just spit out and leave. Instead every point they've given has been countered, been explained away as impractical, irrelevant, and with nothing much to stand with but an overall theme to just accept things as they bc that's how they are. Hardly a solid reason for anything, and definitely not one that did anything worthwhile.

Quote:
They tell me I'm wrong, I give reasons why what they're saying isn't applicable, why it isn't a real solution.

Kahega Amielden wrote:

The problem here is that you think "solution" is "end-all counter that will forever remove your ninja problems with no opportunity for the ninjasalvager to retaliate". That is not what it is. It's more dynamic than that. The fact that you can counter ninjasalvagers by warping out and letting them take aggro is true. It is a very simple counter, and one that they can defend against by being careful and warping out themselves, but it still counts as one. Other options include having a friend salvage behind you (outsalvage him), salvaging as you go (He will still probably salvage faster once he arrives, but there will be no prior wreck field for him to clean up), or shooting the wrecks in hope that they leave (though most ninjas will stay on grid and make you pop every one).

Certainly the best, counter to ninjasalvagers is to stop being so **** at running them that loot/salvage make up a huge proportion of your income.

EDIT: Tied for best counter is missioning in lowsec or nullsec.


Yes, that's how I've be defining a solution in large part bc my proposed solution is an end-all counter. You're right that's not how it is, that's how I'd like it to be and so I hear many thousands of others over the years would no doubt agree with me.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-01-06 21:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: SnowxCrash
dunno why I can't get used to the quote bar being highlighted...
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#79 - 2012-01-06 21:19:45 UTC
Quote:
Yes, that's how I've be defining a solution in large part bc my proposed solution is an end-all counter. You're right that's not how it is, that's how I'd like it to be and so I hear many thousands of others over the years would no doubt agree with me.


Bingo. You don't want to have to think or put effort in. CCP apparently disagrees.
SnowxCrash
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-01-06 21:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: SnowxCrash
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Yes, that's how I've be defining a solution in large part bc my proposed solution is an end-all counter. You're right that's not how it is, that's how I'd like it to be and so I hear many thousands of others over the years would no doubt agree with me.


Bingo. You don't want to have to think or put effort in. CCP apparently disagrees.


Not want to put in effort? How on earth did you come to that conclusion? Really. If what I'm saying goes into effect Ninja salvagers would take risk, and if I attack them I take risk, and the effort required to deal with future conflicts, with retribution from their corpmates or if they come back in a PvP ship is by far more effort than just jumping to another system with less activity, as I have already done much before even considering posting a thread about this topic.