These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Ship alignment : Add more realism and slightly reduce warp time

Author
Ben Zaye
Harakiri Cleaning services
#1 - 2015-11-03 13:34:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Zaye
Warp and alignment of ship:

The problem (issue) :
The ship does not remain aligned when stopped.
That the ship is aligned or not aligned, the time warp of the ship will be exactly the same. This is not realistic.

The Solution :
- Add more realism in game ;
- Allow a ship to remain aligned when stopped ;
- Slightly reduce the time warp when a ship is stopped and aligned. The gain in time will vary depending on the size (or warp speed) of the ship.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2015-11-03 13:46:06 UTC
Should this be based on real-life warp drives? Since we're being 'realistic' and all :)

Alignment is determined by reaching a sufficient velocity on a given vector. When a ship is fully stopped it has zero velocity and no defined vector. When a vector for a ship is undefined it effectively has no alignment. You can see this effect when using multiple clients that enter the same grid at different times; each may render another ship in a different direction since it basically has to 'guess'.

tl;dr - this isn't a problem
Ben Zaye
Harakiri Cleaning services
#3 - 2015-11-03 13:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Ben Zaye
xttz wrote:
Should this be based on real-life warp drives? Since we're being 'realistic' and all :)

Alignment is determined by reaching a sufficient velocity on a given vector. When a ship is fully stopped it has zero velocity and no defined vector. When a vector for a ship is undefined it effectively has no alignment. You can see this effect when using multiple clients that enter the same grid at different times; each may render another ship in a different direction since it basically has to 'guess'.

tl;dr - this isn't a problem


In space, you have no up or down.
And if I take the time to align my ship, he should in theory keep this alignment. This is the problem when the ship is stopped.
CCP must therefore change the game mechanics for more realism.
xttz
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-11-03 14:15:54 UTC
Welp. Troll trap.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-11-03 14:18:59 UTC
Ben Zaye wrote:
xttz wrote:
Should this be based on real-life warp drives? Since we're being 'realistic' and all :)

Alignment is determined by reaching a sufficient velocity on a given vector. When a ship is fully stopped it has zero velocity and no defined vector. When a vector for a ship is undefined it effectively has no alignment. You can see this effect when using multiple clients that enter the same grid at different times; each may render another ship in a different direction since it basically has to 'guess'.

tl;dr - this isn't a problem


In space, you have no up or down.
And if I take the time to align my ship, he should in theory keep this alignment. This is the problem when the ship is stopped.
CCP must therefore change the game mechanics for more realism.


keep your speed at 1m/s if you care so much about staying in-line with your next warp destination. You will still have to accelerate to 75% speed to initiate warp.
Ben Zaye
Harakiri Cleaning services
#6 - 2015-11-03 14:21:01 UTC
xttz wrote:
Welp. Troll trap.


Why when we talk about the enhancing game mechanics is a troll trap ?


afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-11-03 14:23:22 UTC
Ben Zaye wrote:
xttz wrote:
Welp. Troll trap.


Why when we talk about the enhancing game mechanics is a troll trap ?





Because you don't understand the subject you're complaining about.

This is traditionally the preserve of trolls as people are rarely so willfully daft.
Ben Zaye
Harakiri Cleaning services
#8 - 2015-11-03 14:59:36 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ben Zaye wrote:
xttz wrote:
.........

keep your speed at 1m/s if you care so much about staying in-line with your next warp destination. You will still have to accelerate to 75% speed to initiate warp.



The technique you suggest me is useful during a fleet battle. It is not helpful when the vessel is completely stopped (example mining session).

And this is the reason I post this request for modification.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-11-03 15:01:22 UTC
Ben Zaye wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ben Zaye wrote:
xttz wrote:
.........

keep your speed at 1m/s if you care so much about staying in-line with your next warp destination. You will still have to accelerate to 75% speed to initiate warp.



The technique you suggest me is useful during a fleet battle. It is not helpful when the vessel is completely stopped (example mining session).

And this is the reason I post this request for modification.



And again, when the vessel is 100% at a standstill, the direction it is pointing makes no difference whatsoever to align times.
Ben Zaye
Harakiri Cleaning services
#10 - 2015-11-03 15:12:13 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Ben Zaye wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ben Zaye wrote:
xttz wrote:
.........

keep your speed at 1m/s if you care so much about staying in-line with your next warp destination. You will still have to accelerate to 75% speed to initiate warp.



The technique you suggest me is useful during a fleet battle. It is not helpful when the vessel is completely stopped (example mining session).

And this is the reason I post this request for modification.



And again, when the vessel is 100% at a standstill, the direction it is pointing makes no difference whatsoever to align times.


And that is precisely what I would like CCP changes.
In that request (see OP), the gain in time is a few seconds as the ship would take to align.
In addition, it adds more realism in games.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-11-03 15:22:33 UTC
You are making the incorrect assumption that your ship has orientation in eve online. It does not. It has speed and vector.

To add in what you want you would end up adding a considerably more complex system that would cause considerably more increased load. It's not a simple task to accomplish and has a considerable amount of extra tasks to do "that one simple thing".

The realism present is sufficient considering this is a game operating on a limited resources. I could write a program modeling gravity relationships for our solar system using less than 10% of the orbital bodies within it that would crap out over a terabyte of data every minute.. This would be realism but would be absolutely stupid to do in a game.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-11-03 15:59:08 UTC
Ben Zaye wrote:


And that is precisely what I would like CCP changes.
In that request (see OP), the gain in time is a few seconds as the ship would take to align.
In addition, it adds more realism in games.


There is nothing to gain as you can turn faster than you accelerate. Your change would either be a nerf to all align time in the game OR change nothing at all.
Magnus Roden
Center for the Advancement of Human Endeavour
#13 - 2015-11-03 16:05:18 UTC
Ben Zaye wrote:
Warp and alignment of ship:

The problem (issue) :
The ship does not remain aligned when stopped.
That the ship is aligned or not aligned, the time warp of the ship will be exactly the same. This is not realistic.

The Solution :
- Add more realism in game ;
- Allow a ship to remain aligned when stopped ;
- Slightly reduce the time warp when a ship is stopped and aligned. The gain in time will vary depending on the size (or warp speed) of the ship.


You're under the assumption that the direction your ship is facing affects align time, I doesn't. The ONLY thing that affects it is the vector your ship has (speed and direction) and not even there does your ship's visuals affect it, you can move in a direction while your ship doesn't actually point there. This is because the game engine doesn't see a ship at all, it just sees points and those simply do not have a "direction it's facing".

So no, if you're not moving (0 vector) it doesn't matter which way your ship is facing, at all.

Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2015-11-03 16:32:15 UTC
Internet space submarine knife fighting sim and he talks about realism...definitely trolling.
Leonardo Adami
Doomheim
#15 - 2015-11-03 16:35:49 UTC
They changed warp speeds already. This heavily affects roaming gangs as is. Reducing warp times further hurts this aspect even more. No thank you -1.
Wolf Lafisques
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-11-03 17:59:51 UTC
If you want to see why a ship has to be in motion to be aligned, bog down your bandwidth and warp around in your pod for a bit. Pod's have zero align time, so they pretty well warp instantly. If your latency is high enough, you can actually see this effect as your pod will often enter warp sideways. The game doesn't actually know which way your ship is facing at all times. If you're motionless, it has to guess.

If I'm not mistaken, this is because our "ships" are actually just spheres atop which a ship model sits. But the game doesn't take the ship model into account when warping, only the sphere that is your ship's actual entity. Meaning that your ship can warp before it is visually aligned, and the ship model will have to catch up. This is simple for a ship with zero align time. The game doesn't have to worry about figuring out which side is the "front" of your sphere because the "front" instantly faces the direction it needs to.

But for ships with align time, the game needs to know which direction is "front", otherwise everyone would be able to warp of in any direction instantly, regardless of which way they're flying, and align time wouldn't matter because the ship would never actually need to align. The only way for the game to tell which way is "front" and "back" on your ship is if you're in motion. Ships can't fly backwards, at least not in Eve, so if you're in motion, "front" can only be one way.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#17 - 2015-11-03 18:38:45 UTC
Oh boy, this is again one of those cases where people assume things because the client looks fancy..

No this time will not educate the op in our three dimensional super-fluid database polls against a simluated "world" engine. Since I am always space-broke I need to make a living.

So unless we keep you as an entertainment pet we should get rid of this.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-11-03 18:49:13 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Oh boy, this is again one of those cases where people assume things because the client looks fancy..

No this time will not educate the op in our three dimensional super-fluid database polls against a simluated "world" engine. Since I am always space-broke I need to make a living.

So unless we keep you as an entertainment pet we should get rid of this.


The whole question would stop coming back if the engine just left your model at the angle it was when you stopped it. I'd really like to know why it was made so the model of the ship would "align" back to the current "rest" state where it is always parallel to the horizon.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#19 - 2015-11-03 19:22:56 UTC
He dose understand that the direction his ship modle is facing has no effect on the direction it is aligned right?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2015-11-03 19:35:07 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
He dose understand that the direction his ship modle is facing has no effect on the direction it is aligned right?

Evidently not
12Next page