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Stargate Mechanics
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Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-09-14 06:43:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorn Val
Either I'm failing at Google or no one has explained this yet, so I'm going to present two scenarios and please let me know if I'm wrong:

You jump through a stargate and there are hostiles on the other side. You see a warp point in front of your ship (or at least the outline of your ship, since you are still in hyper space) and you command your ship to warp to it. As soon as your ship aligns to the warp point your are no longer in hyper space and you are actionable by the hostiles. You'll warp when your ship reaches 75% of it's maximum velocity, provided no one has warp scrambled or warp disrupted you.

You jump through a stargate and there are hostiles on the other side. You see a warp point behind your ship (or at least the outline of your ship, since you are still in hyper space) and you command your ship to warp to it. As soon as your ship aligns to the warp point your are no longer in hyper space and you are actionable by the hostiles. You'll warp when your ship reaches 75% of it's maximum velocity, provided no one has warp scrambled or warp disrupted you.

In either case the amount of time the hostiles have to act on your ship is the same. It will seem like you are warping faster in the first scenario only because you do not have to wait for your ship to turn, but there is no advantage to having a warp point directly in front of your ship.

Thanks in advance for any constructive feedback.

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...
Sturmwolke
#2 - 2011-09-14 07:11:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
EVE's physics engine (Destiny) treat ALL ships/items as "balls".
Essentially, a vector with a speed number.

After jumping through a stargate, your "ball" have NO set vector and ZERO speed.
The time it takes for you to enter warp is the same , regardless if the warp point is ahead or behind you.
What you see from the ship turning animation is just animation.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=774

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1302329

There are more older sources, but I cba to run the search.
Dorn Val
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-09-14 07:35:24 UTC
Thanks Sturmwolke!

Sandbox: An enclosed area filled with sand for children engaged in open-ended, unstructured, imaginative play. Also a place for cats to urinate and defecate...
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-14 15:37:41 UTC
This also gets used to your advantage in situations where a ship has a certain vector and velocity granted to it -> think about those warp points when you undock for instance.
Othran
Route One
#5 - 2011-09-14 20:34:53 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:

Essentially, a vector with a velocity number.

After jumping through a stargate, your "ball" have NO set vector and ZERO velocity.


I'm going to be Mr Pedantic here and point out that "velocity" is speed (magnitude) with a direction (vector). You cannot define velocity without having both speed and direction.

I know what you're trying to say but stay away from terms you don't understand (no offence intended) and you'll get your point across better.
Othran
Route One
#6 - 2011-09-14 20:36:42 UTC
Cyniac wrote:
This also gets used to your advantage in situations where a ship has a certain vector and velocity granted to it -> think about those warp points when you undock for instance.


Also bear in mind that you are extremely unlikely to be kicked out on a perfect angle - ie zero. You can get kicked out on +/-15 degree angles, up down left and right.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#7 - 2011-09-14 23:23:02 UTC
Othran wrote:
Cyniac wrote:
This also gets used to your advantage in situations where a ship has a certain vector and velocity granted to it -> think about those warp points when you undock for instance.


Also bear in mind that you are extremely unlikely to be kicked out on a perfect angle - ie zero. You can get kicked out on +/-15 degree angles, up down left and right.


When you undock, your exit vector does vary like othran pointed out. But your velocity's vector doesn't have to be 100% aligned to the warp-to target either. I don't know the exact variability, but you have a little wiggle room ( < 15 degrees ).

What Cyniac is trying to point out, is that since you undock at 100+% speed, you can instantly warp to an object or more commonly, a bookmark that is inline with your exit vector. This is a common trick to escape from camped stations. While othran is trying to say these undock bookmarks don't gauruntee an instant warp to safety, a good undock bookmark will have BS's and Freighters warping off before a frigate can lock them 90% of the time.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-15 07:45:55 UTC
One thing to add to this thread, aligning to something and then stopping your ship when it's facing "the right way" will not help you warp to that thing any faster than if you just stopped immediately. The orientation of a completely still ship is irrelevant - to the point that it can even be percieved differently by two different clients.

So FCs, please stop with the "passive align" nonsense.
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-09-15 09:11:44 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
One thing to add to this thread, aligning to something and then stopping your ship when it's facing "the right way" will not help you warp to that thing any faster than if you just stopped immediately. The orientation of a completely still ship is irrelevant - to the point that it can even be percieved differently by two different clients.

So FCs, please stop with the "passive align" nonsense.


I understand the thread and agree with pretty much everything I've read so far. The only question for a passive align would you better served when avoiding a bump if your ship had to "turn" 180 degrees?

The ball theroy when jumping in system works, but after you have left that hyperspace.. you return back to normal warp mechanics right? Or at least something different from gate warp..
s
agrajag119
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-09-15 18:19:19 UTC
The ball theory is how eve works all the time. You are very rarely completely stopped in normal operations though, so where the destination is in relation to your current path does play a part.
Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#11 - 2011-09-15 20:30:01 UTC
Othran wrote:
[quote=Sturmwolke]I'm going to be Mr Pedantic here and point out that "velocity" is speed (magnitude) with a direction (vector). You cannot define velocity without having both speed and direction.


There are more vectors than just unity vectors, you know ...
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-16 13:03:19 UTC
Since we are talking about warping and the ball physics of EVE one other important tidbit - a very effective way to prevent ships from warping is to bump into them, repeatedly. Each time you bump you'll be throwing them off their warp vector. Works best against large ships with relatively long time to warp.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#13 - 2011-09-16 13:46:43 UTC
I'm finding myself concerned with the amount of talk concerning balls in this thread.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-19 08:10:20 UTC
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
I'm finding myself concerned with the amount of talk concerning balls in this thread.


And all their vectors are aligned to you