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Did I do my math wrong? (Very confused)

First post
Author
Cardcaptor Sakura
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-10-27 23:53:01 UTC
So I have a ship.
With a thermal shield resistance above 50%. (I say thermal as an example)
I have thermal resistance amplifier that gives it roughly 30 ish %..
I also have thermal shield compensation level 4 to boost that resistance amount by 20% (because 5% buff per level).

I was under the impression that 50% plus 50% equals 100%..which equals 100% thermal resistance..which equals me taking zero damage from thermal based damage.
It said my resistance only went up to 94%....I am very confused.....I know how to add 2 double digit numbers because that is elementary school leveled math..so this was a 1st for me.

Is it just a bug they forgot to fix? Or am I missing something I don't know about?
Advise and clarification on this matter would be appreciated.

I was just ecstatic that I could have a 100% resistance on my ship so this comes as a shock to me.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#2 - 2015-10-28 00:03:41 UTC
Cardcaptor Sakura wrote:
So I have a ship.
With a thermal shield resistance above 50%. (I say thermal as an example)
I have thermal resistance amplifier that gives it roughly 30 ish %..
I also have thermal shield compensation level 4 to boost that resistance amount by 20% (because 5% buff per level).

I was under the impression that 50% plus 50% equals 100%..which equals 100% thermal resistance..which equals me taking zero damage from thermal based damage.
It said my resistance only went up to 94%....I am very confused.....I know how to add 2 double digit numbers because that is elementary school leveled math..so this was a 1st for me.

Is it just a bug they forgot to fix? Or am I missing something I don't know about?
Advise and clarification on this matter would be appreciated.

I was just ecstatic that I could have a 100% resistance on my ship so this comes as a shock to me.


Resistances, and most other stats in eve are not additive. Each mod, skill, etc reduces your damage by x%. So let's say someone is shooting you for 100 dps thermal.

Your shield resistance reduces this by 50%, you now only take 50 dps damage.
Your resist amp further reduces this 50 dps by 30%, you now take 35 dps damage.
Etcetera...

In other words, the stats are multiplicative.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-10-28 00:04:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Cardcaptor Sakura wrote:
So I have a ship.
With a thermal shield resistance above 50%. (I say thermal as an example)
I have thermal resistance amplifier that gives it roughly 30 ish %..
I also have thermal shield compensation level 4 to boost that resistance amount by 20% (because 5% buff per level).

I was under the impression that 50% plus 50% equals 100%..which equals 100% thermal resistance..which equals me taking zero damage from thermal based damage.
It said my resistance only went up to 94%....I am very confused.....I know how to add 2 double digit numbers because that is elementary school leveled math..so this was a 1st for me.

Is it just a bug they forgot to fix? Or am I missing something I don't know about?
Advise and clarification on this matter would be appreciated.

I was just ecstatic that I could have a 100% resistance on my ship so this comes as a shock to me.



The thermal resistance amplifer works on whatever damage is left over after other resists.

If your ship has 40% resists and your amplifier gives you 50% resists you will have 60% damage still incoming that the amplifier reduce by 50% leaving just 30% getting through.

Mathematically it is: Damage times Ship resist times Mod resist etc etc --- not added like in your example.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2015-10-28 00:12:51 UTC
Cardcaptor Sakura
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-10-28 04:14:40 UTC
oh.
ok.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2015-10-28 04:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
tldr;

- almost all mods in EVE give multiplicative bonuses

- it is almost impossible to have 100% or greater resistance to anything.

- almost all mods have "stacking penalties" (see: the bonus each subsequent mod gives to a particular stat is artificially lowered, providing lower rates of improvement).

The take away: you can get some pretty high resistances if you play with your fit enough... but the general rule of thumb is that fitting more than 3 mods that affect the same stat is pointless (exceptions apply).


Fun Fact: You do not want to have 100+% resistances. The game's code gets "a little" glitchy when you reach that point and will result in you taking infinite damage.
Was good fun when it was still possible (not sure it is anymore).
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#7 - 2015-10-28 20:07:27 UTC
More on stacking penalties.

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Netan MalDoran
Interstellar Callboy
Mercenaries and Merchants
#8 - 2015-10-28 22:01:46 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
tldr;
Fun Fact: You do not want to have 100+% resistances. The game's code gets "a little" glitchy when you reach that point and will result in you taking infinite damage.
Was good fun when it was still possible (not sure it is anymore).


This used to be possible with a type of T2 indy in (I think...) a Red Giant WH with overheated Deadspace mods, but they fixed it. Ship would pop once you took any damage XD

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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2015-10-28 22:26:55 UTC
in case it's of interest to people:

The 'infinite' damage thing comes from the way the damage is represented. They're using an unsigned integer for it. They can store from 0 to MAXINT.

Signed Integers can store between negative MAXINT/2 to positive MAXINT/2

Due to how they're stored, (using what's known as 2's complement) if you try to store -1 in a unsigned integer, you actually get 1 below MAXINT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two's_complement

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2015-10-29 22:04:54 UTC
The only ship to reach (and exceed) 100% resists is the Caldari Bustard, Deep Space Transport, when fitted with insanely expensive officer resistance modules, overheated of course.

Tthe Bustard has a lot of mid-slots, and shield resist modules have larger bonuses than armor resist modules.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2015-10-31 16:49:50 UTC
Others talked about the stacking penalties so here are the numbers for them.

1st mod: 100.0% effectiveness
2nd mod: 86.9% effectiveness
3rd mod: 57.1% effectiveness
4th mod: 28.3% effectiveness
5th mod: 10.6% effectiveness
6th mod: 3.0% effectiveness

A short how this works using your thermal as an example.
The first module will give you the full boost amount say 20%.
The 2nd one that affects thermal will only be 86.9% effective which means it gives you an additional 17.38% boost.
The 3rd one would be 57.1% effective so you get an additional 11.42% boost.
I think you can follow the pattern from here.

Another I did not see, although I may have missed it is that some rigs will not only stacking penalize with other rigs they may stacking penalize with your modules as well so be careful of this. If rigs stacking penalize with your modules the game starts the computations at the rigs so they get 100% and the modules will all be less following the chart above. If this occurs and given that modules oft times give better boosts than the rigs it may be wise to drop the rig and use it for something else.

I know many that like to do the math and even developed their own spread sheets for this, if you like that stay the course.
On the other hand if there are other things you want to do with the time then a good fit tool handles all of this for you.

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Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#12 - 2015-10-31 22:18:24 UTC
Stacking penalty is not based on the module but on the bonus it gives, if for that bonus penalties applies then that goes for all modules, rigs and implants that affect that bonus. Only ship bonuses do not count in regards to stacking.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#13 - 2015-10-31 23:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
Gregor Parud wrote:
Stacking penalty is not based on the module but on the bonus it gives, if for that bonus penalties applies then that goes for all modules, rigs and implants that affect that bonus. Only ship bonuses do not count in regards to stacking.

True, and yet it hardly maters, since everything in the game that may be stacking penalized is either a rig or a module.

I have never seen a stacking penalty from implants before and based on the link below there is none. Do you have other information or a link where this idea of implants being stacking penalized comes from if you do please share it because this is the first I have ever heard about it.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Stacking_penalties
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-11-01 12:46:47 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Stacking penalty is not based on the module but on the bonus it gives, if for that bonus penalties applies then that goes for all modules, rigs and implants that affect that bonus. Only ship bonuses do not count in regards to stacking.

True, and yet it hardly maters, since everything in the game that may be stacking penalized is either a rig or a module.

I have never seen a stacking penalty from implants before and based on the link below there is none. Do you have other information or a link where this idea of implants being stacking penalized comes from if you do please share it because this is the first I have ever heard about it.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Stacking_penalties

Implants are not penalised, and the stacking penalty is applied in reverse to the modules affect on an attribute.
So my hardener at 55% is 100% effective,
my resist amp at 40% is 86.9% effective,
my second amp at 40% is 57.1% effective,
then my rig at 20% is 28.3% effective.

Think of a resist module as plugging your "hole" [yeah baby]
so my ship has 30% resist. I fit it as above
highest module 55% not yet penalized, 100% effect increases overall by 38.5% (55% of my 70% hole) to 68.5%
second module goes on at 40%, drop that cos it's stacked to 34.76% giving me 10.9494% overall, resist now at 79.4494%
third module goes on at 40%, drop that cos it's stacked to 22.84% giving me 4.69375704% overall, resist now at 84.14315704%
fourth module goes on at 20%, drop that cos it's stacked to 5.66% giving me 0.897497311536% overall, resist now at 85.040654351536%

so the fourth one might read 20%, but in reality, (in this case anyway) it's actually given you a tiny bit under 1%.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#15 - 2015-11-01 13:20:38 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
Stacking penalty is not based on the module but on the bonus it gives, if for that bonus penalties applies then that goes for all modules, rigs and implants that affect that bonus. Only ship bonuses do not count in regards to stacking.

True, and yet it hardly maters, since everything in the game that may be stacking penalized is either a rig or a module.

I have never seen a stacking penalty from implants before and based on the link below there is none. Do you have other information or a link where this idea of implants being stacking penalized comes from if you do please share it because this is the first I have ever heard about it.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Stacking_penalties


Yeah implants don't count, I messed that up by stating all the modifiers as such. Oops
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#16 - 2015-11-01 18:09:40 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
in case it's of interest to people:

The 'infinite' damage thing comes from the way the damage is represented. They're using an unsigned integer for it. They can store from 0 to MAXINT.

Signed Integers can store between negative MAXINT/2 to positive MAXINT/2

Due to how they're stored, (using what's known as 2's complement) if you try to store -1 in a unsigned integer, you actually get 1 below MAXINT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two's_complement


Wasn't there a bug like that in one of the Civilization games where Ghandi would go full out ape-**** and start nuking everybody?

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Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-11-01 22:44:39 UTC
The other oddity with stacking penalties is Damage Controls and Reactive Armor Hardeners.

Damage Controls and Reactive Armor Hardeners have stacking penalties with each other but do not have stacking penalties with any other armor resists or hardeners.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-11-01 23:31:34 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The other oddity with stacking penalties is Damage Controls and Reactive Armor Hardeners.

Damage Controls and Reactive Armor Hardeners have stacking penalties with each other but do not have stacking penalties with any other armor resists or hardeners.

That is actually a deliberate feature.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#19 - 2015-11-01 23:44:45 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The other oddity with stacking penalties is Damage Controls and Reactive Armor Hardeners.

Damage Controls and Reactive Armor Hardeners have stacking penalties with each other but do not have stacking penalties with any other armor resists or hardeners.

That is actually a deliberate feature.

Bastion I believe is the same.

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