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The kills of 2014: statistical analysis on the zkillboard data
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Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-10-27 10:02:47 UTC
Much more interesting:

Concord (a pure npc corp) has 959k kills, by far the "best" corp in terms of numbers killed, that should tell anyone all they need to know about this game.

Also, according to some other kill board, the Concord police captain is, again, the month's champ.

There was a time in this game when concord npcs did not even make the monthly top 20. In this day and age it is an astounding accomplishment to beat the concord npc to the monthly top spot.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#22 - 2015-10-27 10:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Much more interesting:

Concord (a pure npc corp) has 959k kills, by far the "best" corp in terms of numbers killed, that should tell anyone all they need to know about this game.

Also, according to some other kill board, the Concord police captain is, again, the month's champ.

There was a time in this game when concord npcs did not even make the monthly top 20. In this day and age it is an astounding accomplishment to beat the concord npc to the monthly top spot.

The figures for CONCORD measure every gank ship killed, where gankers that kill together in a fleet have just the one kill.

So a fleet of 30 cataysts ends up 1 kill, CONCORD 30 kills.

It kind of makes it difficult to compare stats now against past periods as the process of ganking has changed and become more organised.

Additionally, for gank kills in major ganking systems, 1 ship kill might also have a number of other gank losses to CONCORD in the process of pulling CONCORD away from a gate.

So it could be even more ship kills to CONCORD for every 1 ship killed by gankers.

There's not really a lot to read into that in the end.

Obviously that's not the same in every situation, but it makes figures a bit tough to compare.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#23 - 2015-10-27 11:53:43 UTC
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Much more interesting:

Concord (a pure npc corp) has 959k kills, by far the "best" corp in terms of numbers killed, that should tell anyone all they need to know about this game.

Also, according to some other kill board, the Concord police captain is, again, the month's champ.

There was a time in this game when concord npcs did not even make the monthly top 20. In this day and age it is an astounding accomplishment to beat the concord npc to the monthly top spot.

Yes, it means that CONCORD is too powerful, since it takes ~20 ships to suicide gank one.

Evil RatKid
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#24 - 2015-10-27 12:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
I've always said that killmails and killboards are completely broken and stupid. One ship dies, and 100 players get a "kill". That makes no sense at all. Whoever gets final blow should be the only one to get a "kill", you can still show the people who whored on the killmail for the sake of intel if you must.

The reason killmails are multiplicative is to perpetuate blob warfare and that's it. The way it works players in a 100 vs 100 blob, if all 200 players die, each players gets 100 "kills" while only losing one ship, so you can blob and be terrible while still looking good on the killboards. It's the dumbest thing ever. Just a spaceship circle jerk with no skill.
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-10-27 12:51:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Otso Bakarti
All hail the mighty PvP-ers! What an example they are to gaming! Babies stop your nursing! It's the mother ship!

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Yes, it means that CONCORD is too powerful, since it takes ~20 ships to suicide gank one.

Duct tape wrapped tightly around the keyboard helps with this kind of shiptoasting.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#26 - 2015-10-27 13:05:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Ares Desideratus wrote:
I've always said that killmails and killboards are completely broken and stupid. One ship dies, and 100 players get a "kill". That makes no sense at all. Whoever gets final blow should be the only one to get a "kill", you can still show the people who whored on the killmail for the sake of intel if you must.

The reason killmails are multiplicative is to perpetuate blob warfare and that's it. The way it works players in a 100 vs 100 blob, if all 200 players die, each players gets 100 "kills" while only losing one ship, so you can blob and be terrible while still looking good on the killboards. It's the dumbest thing ever. Just a spaceship circle jerk with no skill.


This is a misunderstanding of the situation. If the only person who got a kill mail was the guy who lucked up on the final blow, many fewer people would participate, and everyone who did would jsut fly glass cannon "killmail generator" ships that yolo about stupidly.

Killmails serve the purpose of making people feel involved in combat (the idea that they exist to 'promote' anything is ridiculous, Blobs happen because people are human). Last fight between my alliance and goons, I know i didn't get '35 kill's, i just got on 35 killmails and only had 3 final blows. But 35 angry as hell looking Bee icons on my killboard sure did feel better than 3, even if I personally knew it was an illusion. Take that away and many would feel less involved.

At best, the only thing that would work is dividing mails between "kill reports" (for the guy who got the final blow) and "kill-assist reports" for everyone else. But the current kill report system works fine.
Crystalline Entity
Black Dragon PHP
#27 - 2015-10-27 13:23:16 UTC
Gevlon Goblin wrote:
if we remove inflation.


k, wat?
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#28 - 2015-10-27 13:58:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


This is a misunderstanding of the situation. If the only person who got a kill mail was the guy who lucked up on the final blow, many fewer people would participate, and everyone who did would jsut fly glass cannon "killmail generator" ships that yolo about stupidly.

You're saying people would stop participating if they weren't e-stroked by killboards and I disagree.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#29 - 2015-10-27 14:03:38 UTC
The thing is, with all of that analysis it's still no real different from just looking at zkillboard. Context of a kill and an individual pilots roles in it isn't logged, so none of it relates to actual skill. Someone firing a single noobship shot at a titan clearly isn't as skilled as someone taking down a decently fit and piloted frigate, yet they will gain significantly more value for their shot. Additionally support players won't show at all on kills for the most part, and are generally critical to any larger scale battle.

As for "solo isn't dead", this doesn't prove that either. Someone oneshotting one of the 200 ships in a battle isn't "solo". Hell, even half the kills that do actually appear solo aren't even solo because there will be boosters or logi in many of the cases.

Honestly, you can take this data and pretty much tell any story you want. It doesn't actually mean anything though since that's all it is. A story.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#30 - 2015-10-27 15:27:03 UTC
Funny how the usual suspects are crying about this while they are busy making some **** up about why the calculations are not relevant. Also funny how they are not even on the list which should obviously tell us a lot about their relevance.

Evil RatKid
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#31 - 2015-10-27 15:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kuronaga
Some EVE players are very smart and have much to be proud of. Most are not, but will cling to faux killboard statistics to try and make themselves feel relevant.

While it is fun to shine a flashlight on these sad people and call them out when they start bragging (ooh, you got to be 1 out of 32 people shooting at a single target, big accomplishment) it is unfortunately not a fight you will ever verbally win against them. Some people will always be bad, and they need the reassurance of false accomplishment to make life worth living for themselves. Even if that reassurance is a bald faced lie. They will happily plug their ears when the truth comes knocking because that's just human nature.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-10-27 16:17:05 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


This is a misunderstanding of the situation. If the only person who got a kill mail was the guy who lucked up on the final blow, many fewer people would participate, and everyone who did would jsut fly glass cannon "killmail generator" ships that yolo about stupidly.

You're saying people would stop participating if they weren't e-stroked by killboards and I disagree.


If people weren't in it for the killmails, no fleet would ever have trouble finding logi/scouts/support pilots to fill their wings. Whore guns on fits would not be a thing either.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#33 - 2015-10-27 16:39:49 UTC
There would be other benefits too, more players would fly strictly for fun without thinking about killboards. Real content would go up.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#34 - 2015-10-27 16:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Templar Dane
Agree with everyone that says killboards are a joke. If the isk damage was evenly split among all participants, that would be more fair.

For the people interested in killboard stats, they'd try to solo or do small gang instead of blobbing up and ganking condors all day long.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#35 - 2015-10-27 17:00:01 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
Agree with everyone that says killboards are a joke. If the isk damage was evenly split among all participants, that would be more fair.


This part is true.

Quote:

For the people interested in killboard stats, they'd try to solo or do small gang instead of blobbing up and ganking condors all day long.


This part is not, it's like saying "if you move lvl 4s out of high sec, everyone will go to low sec" lol. Some of us aren't interested in BS solo or small gang stuff, some of us like fleet fights for (usually) bigger stakes like sov, at least pre foizziesov. Not everyone pvp's for the same reason.

To me, that solo stuff is not very much different from {insert word for self pleasuring}, only in space.
Portmanteau
Iron Krosz
#36 - 2015-10-27 17:02:53 UTC
Kuronaga wrote:
Some EVE players are very smart and have much to be proud of. Most are not, but will cling to faux killboard statistics to try and make themselves feel relevant.

While it is fun to shine a flashlight on these sad people and call them out when they start bragging (ooh, you got to be 1 out of 32 people shooting at a single target, big accomplishment) it is unfortunately not a fight you will ever verbally win against them. Some people will always be bad, and they need the reassurance of false accomplishment to make life worth living for themselves. Even if that reassurance is a bald faced lie. They will happily plug their ears when the truth comes knocking because that's just human nature.


I say this from the POV of someone who only solo PVPs, but I find this assessment a little harsh.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#37 - 2015-10-27 17:12:45 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Elsa Hayes wrote:
Much more interesting:

Concord (a pure npc corp) has 959k kills, by far the "best" corp in terms of numbers killed, that should tell anyone all they need to know about this game.

Also, according to some other kill board, the Concord police captain is, again, the month's champ.

There was a time in this game when concord npcs did not even make the monthly top 20. In this day and age it is an astounding accomplishment to beat the concord npc to the monthly top spot.

The figures for CONCORD measure every gank ship killed, where gankers that kill together in a fleet have just the one kill.

So a fleet of 30 cataysts ends up 1 kill, CONCORD 30 kills.

It kind of makes it difficult to compare stats now against past periods as the process of ganking has changed and become more organised.

Additionally, for gank kills in major ganking systems, 1 ship kill might also have a number of other gank losses to CONCORD in the process of pulling CONCORD away from a gate.

So it could be even more ship kills to CONCORD for every 1 ship killed by gankers.

There's not really a lot to read into that in the end.

Obviously that's not the same in every situation, but it makes figures a bit tough to compare.


I think that's kind of her point. The nature of PvP kills has shifted. Concord doing such a large number of kills is an indicator that the ganking meta is quite a lot more prominent than it used to be.

I'm not making a value judgement about why that is or whether it's good or bad. But I think that's the take away, and it is interesting.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#38 - 2015-10-27 17:16:05 UTC
Portmanteau wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Some EVE players are very smart and have much to be proud of. Most are not, but will cling to faux killboard statistics to try and make themselves feel relevant.

While it is fun to shine a flashlight on these sad people and call them out when they start bragging (ooh, you got to be 1 out of 32 people shooting at a single target, big accomplishment) it is unfortunately not a fight you will ever verbally win against them. Some people will always be bad, and they need the reassurance of false accomplishment to make life worth living for themselves. Even if that reassurance is a bald faced lie. They will happily plug their ears when the truth comes knocking because that's just human nature.


I say this from the POV of someone who only solo PVPs, but I find this assessment a little harsh.


+1

Solo PVPrs (not you of course Big smile) tend to be very prideful of what they do, and to some extent that's fine. But at some point they cross a line and think that everyone should judge success and worth like they do.

He makes fun of the people happy to be 1 of 32 people. To me, that killmail makes me feel good ,not because it shows how awesome I am (I don't need to be told this by video game nerds), but because it shows I contributed to my team/group/corp/alliance rather than sit back and leech off other folks efforts. Solo guys (again not you Big smile ) can't seem to grasp that idea, it's all about them, screw everyone else.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2015-10-27 17:18:09 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
There would be other benefits too, more players would fly strictly for fun without thinking about killboards. Real content would go up.


You can already fly for fun without caring about killboards... Nobody can force you to care about your killboard in EVE. Caring about it is something you choose to do or not.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-10-27 17:23:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Portmanteau wrote:
Kuronaga wrote:
Some EVE players are very smart and have much to be proud of. Most are not, but will cling to faux killboard statistics to try and make themselves feel relevant.

While it is fun to shine a flashlight on these sad people and call them out when they start bragging (ooh, you got to be 1 out of 32 people shooting at a single target, big accomplishment) it is unfortunately not a fight you will ever verbally win against them. Some people will always be bad, and they need the reassurance of false accomplishment to make life worth living for themselves. Even if that reassurance is a bald faced lie. They will happily plug their ears when the truth comes knocking because that's just human nature.


I say this from the POV of someone who only solo PVPs, but I find this assessment a little harsh.


+1

Solo PVPrs (not you of course Big smile) tend to be very prideful of what they do, and to some extent that's fine. But at some point they cross a line and think that everyone should judge success and worth like they do.

He makes fun of the people happy to be 1 of 32 people. To me, that killmail makes me feel good ,not because it shows how awesome I am (I don't need to be told this by video game nerds), but because it shows I contributed to my team/group/corp/alliance rather than sit back and leech off other folks efforts. Solo guys (again not you Big smile ) can't seem to grasp that idea, it's all about them, screw everyone else.


Oh common, I am totally the epitome of PVP skills for participating to ~30 kills in my last cormorant fleet.

LolLolLol