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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

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Three ideas to enhance player experience and increase player base

First post
Sunshine and Lollipops
#41 - 2012-01-05 22:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cayate wrote:
when are you NOT grinding when not pvping?
Most of the time.
The question remains: why do you want to promote not playing the actual game?
As I was suggesting it that those tasks be more rewarding.
Why should they be? And why those tasks, in particular, and not others? They are already highly rewarding.
I don't see how encouraging players to play the game
…but that's just it: you're not encouraging to play the game. You're encouraging them to play some unrelated grind that doesn't actually exist in EVE right now (because the skill system makes it completely unnecessary), and for no particular reason other than… I don't know… because that's the flawed system other, much worse, games do it?

Why is it needed? What problem does it solve? Why does this activity need more rewards than the massive rewards it already yields? Why not anything else? What about the other skills?

Oh, and you'd better believe that it will lead to botting — another strike against it.
Aramean Excavations
#42 - 2012-01-05 22:43:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Cayate
LOL Now you're starting to get it Tippia. but stop thinking bluntly.

Plus READ the posts :-p

Rewarding players for being ACTIVE and PLAYING the game. They are rewarded by earning so many points a week. Not a lot to be overpowered and ridiculous. But enough that it can shorten their skill training times compared to someone who does NOT play actively as much.

And I mention those tasks as EXAMPLES. which I once again, repeating myself, suggest you look up the definition of EXAMPLE.

Missions, mining, scanning, ratting, those are some of the easiest activities to use as examples. and no completeing 1 missions doens't earn you 1.5 milllion skill points. you probably would ge tlike..3 skill points. But it's the fact you are rewarded for being active.

so as for EXAMPLE:

A mission rewards you with standings and isk. Isk can be earned in so many ways. including buy plex and selling it. Standings earned primarily through missions. but if you're a PVPer and don't give a hoot about standings then it don't matter to you. So why bother? It's not like a mission doesn't help you train advanced starship command any faster than it would NOT doing the mission right?

When it comes ot mining, there is asteroid minig, ice mining, gas harvesting. The hours spend grinding out the mining of resources can be rewarded with like.... 0.5 skill points for every...100k units of ore mined. Not for refining because you cna simply jsut buy ore and refine it. you don't participate in in the mining.

For PVP, I personally don't think it needs skill point rewards for blowing someone up. buuuuuuut that might be the only thing a person does. which in that case maaaaybe they can also earn skill points for a kill, but seeing as a player is mroe challenging opponent than an NPC it would be a bigger reward.

Giving a reward of decreased training times for skills can attract players ot being active. and therefore more actvie targets for pvpers if you wanna think of it that way.

and obviously you didn't read an entire post. to battle the botting of skill point earning. you put limits ot points earned in a day and in a week. and if you must, in a month.

Really. its worth botting to earn 16k points in a week? a daily limit spreads th activity out for a few days. the weekly limit will limit to how quickly points add up. still taking months for someone to earn up enough to to say.. train a skill from 4-5 or even 3-4 without queing it.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#43 - 2012-01-05 23:38:04 UTC
1. Meh, ship skinning is probably coming at some point, it's not very important.
3. Grind to win huh? How about no. The fact that Eve doesn't have this is a strength not a weakness.

2. Hisec and Lowsec need changing in order to protect new players and casual players.

There are so many ways to avoid pvp and to essentially be 99.99% safe that it's almost game breaking. If you want a PvE grinding mmo you really would be better off with WoW or one of its clones. I'm not trolling here, Eve's PvE is *HORRIBLE*, if you want that kind of a game there are many others that will suit you better. What makes Eve special is the fact that its mostly harsh, complicated, and focuses on creating a strong political meta game.

Eve is niche, it should be niche, and CCP needs to understand this better than they already do. Attempting to dumb the game down, or appeal to a wider existing audience would destroy the game. The opposite of what your suggesting needs to be done to bring in more players, by being true to it's core nature.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#44 - 2012-01-05 23:52:54 UTC
Rewarding players for being ACTIVE and PLAYING the game.................... Missions, mining, scanning, ratting, those are some of the easiest activities to use as examples.

Here's a great example of why you are so utterly far off the mark. What determines "activity". The examples you give here are some of the most horrible activities anyone can possibly engage in in Eve. I've played for 3 years and in all that time I've ran missions for about a total of a few days, Ratting even less, Mining none.

How would you "reward" the corporate spy, blogger, leader, or FC? If you think "Being active" is shooting the red squares, then your opinion of Eve is extraordinarily shallow, and I would recommend any number of other games that do that better than Eve does.

Eve needs to focus on adding sand to the sandbox, making highsec and lowsec LESS safe. Better ideas would be things like letting players work for Sansha (against other players in incursions), adding sansha gatecamps to highsec incursion systems. Escillating incursions through wormholes into lowsec (ensuring all good income comes from lowsec, not from high). Letting incursions block major highways like amarr <-> jita once in awhile. Adding "Sec Tides", pvp missions, doing more with FW, Small holding, and other things to help shake things up.

I assure you the *last* thing eve needs is more highsec handholding. Some better and more honest tutorials would be a great addition though. Invite players to do what eve is good at, not what it's bad at.
Caldari State
#45 - 2012-01-06 00:09:13 UTC
I like the Idea of having customizable ships. CCP has done an amazing job on character - creation, it really is time to have this feature for ship paintjobs too. DO IT ASAP please. (if there are resources free ofc)

This won't help playerbase that much, because the whole problem is that it is hard to get into and this is because of SP and no way to speed skill-learning up.

Enable grinding SP till 30 mil. SP for new players. This would help a lot. Why? Simple: PPL trying this game -> getting bored waiting for skills they NEED to do stuff, getting bored even more --> quit.

Why do you wanna pay for something, especially if you have to wait 367 days to TRY something new (like another profession)? You can see that most ppl won't pay for that. ( How many accounts are active? ~250k? that's so absurdly low for an MMORPG, I could laugh my ass out everytime I'm thinking about this )

So yes, give us some SP to grind, CCP could give us like 20 mil SP every player is allowed to grind, an then it caps out. 20 Mil should be enough to go down one route or try out everything in EvE.

Second part on helping playerbase could be: Give some love to PvE. Missions are all the same, and you have seen them all after 2 months if you want to. This can and should be increased. Design more enjoyable missions (or move some of the mostly unused lv 5's back to highsec again, dramatic reduced payout ofc!).

Last point here is: EvE needs a dramatic increase in playerbase. This would help more then any dumb Idea to encourage players moving to PvP-Zones which ever came to the mind of some rly absurd dev-brain.

- Mingja
Aramean Excavations
#46 - 2012-01-06 00:16:37 UTC
Well Mingja, thanks for soms support there. NIce ot see you understand about the need to attract more players. Although Gotta be sure to balance things too. this cna't be all PVE. As others stated before this game is to be based more realistic style so PVP has ot have a big role in this. Have to maintain a balance. But can't be grinding so much SP so quickly though, that's almost like being handed everything making it not as worthwhile when having it lol.

But don't forget, the SP eanring idea is meant to reward players not be the new grinding aspect. It compliments the training skill system EVE has.

But thanks for the enthusiasm.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#47 - 2012-01-06 00:24:05 UTC
because the whole problem is that it is hard to get into and this is because of SP and no way to speed skill-learning up.

Make isk, buy characters.

Though personally, I think they should remove skill training completely and replace it with an expanded clone system, where you would have "clone manufacturing". As now, implants (thus skills) would be lost each time you got podded. Thus it all folds into economics, want to fly a cap? buy a cap clone that has what you need, etc. This would also eliminate the long term issue of skill inflation.

I'm not a fan of the sp system, but "solving" it with grinding is worse than letting things be.
Aramean Excavations
#48 - 2012-01-06 00:25:50 UTC
lol Kitten, this game has grinding like any other. it's what you do in RL.

BUt your idea of clones? Hmmm sounds interesting. you have more ot say on that? That could be something interesting there.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#49 - 2012-01-06 00:49:08 UTC
I did some "grinding" a bit my first month, years ago, haven't done it since to any measurable degree. That's the great thing about a game where you can get almost everything you want with isk, it doesn't dictate what activities you do to make it.

So... I don't really think there's enough support to change the skill system in any meaningful way, however the high amounts of sp we have in game now will become more and more of an issue to the general way the game is balanced, and will probably, eventually lead to the stagnation of the game.

The way I see it, ditching time based training and replacing the whole thing with essentially a clone manufacturing system, where players manufacture full clones to then sell to other players would make a lot of sense. It would close the loop on skills, since no longer would players be infinitely skilling up. They would loose the clones when they got podded, and therefore the whole thing roles into the market system like most everything else in the game.

The big negative to this however is that diversity would be greatly diminished, it would be much easier to get large uniform fleets together than it is now. Also high sp manufacturers, traders, highsec pve'rs, etc who are all basically immune from pvp would be the norm, and you would loose a lot of diversity there as well.

So that sucks, yet how long can the current system really last without turning into that anyway? At least the above would be a little more accessible to new players, and would put more pressure on CCP to design a better combat system that gives more reason to fly more things.

Still probably a couple years or so before its a serious issue worth considering.

The largest problem new players face is not the lack of sp, it's the lack of actual understanding of the game, and why having low sp is not as important as they think.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#50 - 2012-01-06 01:03:28 UTC
..... It ain't jsut handed to you! If you want jsut pure PVP where everything is jsut handed to you, ......... then EVE isn't the place for ya.

Actually quite a few alliances have reimbursement programs for alliance fleet ops. There are many who do go join one of these alliances and more or less pvp for free. We recently just started a reimbursement program in our alliance in fact.

That's the kind of thing we need more of, alliance and corp resources and holdings that people can fight over. The change to PI is a great example.
#51 - 2012-01-06 01:36:25 UTC
Idea 1: Supported. Doesn't affect game mechanics. Easy.

Idea 2: NOT supported. High-sec ganking is working as intended. Just don't be an easy target. That means- no auto-piloting in pods and no auto-piloting when you have something worth ganking. Oh, and check the calendar for hulkaggeddon.

Idea 3: NOT supported. I can see maybe a newbie getting this benefit for a month, but EVE is all about ANTI-power-gaming. Just queue your skills properly, remap smartly, and get your implants.
Sunshine and Lollipops
#52 - 2012-01-06 01:45:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cayate wrote:
Rewarding players for being ACTIVE and PLAYING the game.
This already happens. Why is more needed? What problem does your idea solve? How does it avoid the problems caused by the previous iteration of the same idea? Why does this activity need more rewards than the massive rewards it already yields? Why not anything else? What about the other skills?

And no, limiting a grind does not make it less of a grind, and if it is a grind, it will be botted. The reason is still the same: you are encouraging people to do something other than playing the actual game, and since they prefer to play the actual game, they'll use other methods to squeeze out those benefits while not having to distract themselves with the lame and pointless non-gameplay.

Your idea solves nothing; has already been rejected in the past; and only encourages the wrong thing for something that isn't even needed to begin with.
Mingja wrote:
Why do you wanna pay for something, especially if you have to wait 367 days to TRY something new (like another profession)? You can see that most ppl won't pay for that.
Good news. You already don't have to wait for a year to try something new. You can do that in a matter of hours or (at worst) days. Adding a grind does not solve that problem because it only reinforces the completely false notion that you need a lot of SP to try something and it makes that false notion worse by attaching a mindless grind to that completely unnecessary acquisition of SP.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#53 - 2012-01-06 02:19:59 UTC
Attempting to ignore all the insanity that followed and just focusing on the OP.Smile And failing at it...

1) I think this will be implemented at some point. Personally wouldn't use it, but what the heck no problem if others wanted to. As long as there is no way to defile the Amarr beauty with pink.Evil

2) I personally feel Concord is already doing a sufficient amount of destruction. They already kill ships almost instantly in 1.0 and it goes down from there to nothing once in low sec. Generally ganking can be avoided by not being afk and playing smart.
I wouldn't mind seeing faction navies in a way in low sec, simply because how else would then hold sov? Maybe see them on gates sometimes and some stations. But it would never be a guarantee as they would be spread rather thin (hence the low sec status). Otherwise... it would just make LS too much like HS in my opinion.

3) Was tried. Failed. People ended up shooting non destroyable object while afk.
CCP made the skill system the way it is now because it was the only way to prevent abuses. It is also fair (a first for EVE). As long as you sub and add skills, you will slowly advance. Doesn't do jack if you don't play and know how to do things (or have the isk to use the things you've trained for).
Its also one of the reasons I continue to play EVE. I can't get to max level in a week, or a month, but years (many).

And Tippia, don't waste you time on this one. While your logic is undeniable (usually), when arguing against irrationalities, its a waste of time.

And Cayate, Tippia isn't trolling but rather is using a debate tactic known as presenting arguments. Smile
Tippia is among one of the few on this forum who likes debating, and prefers using proper debating technique.
You, seemingly, do not and would prefer to mud sling into oblivion. Not the best of tactics, as it makes your credibility to both other players and the Devs practically nill. But, to each their own.

Oh... and F&I is where threads go to die. If you really want the Devs to see something... this is not the best place, or the best method of continuing to converse. Just friendly advice.
Aramean Excavations
#54 - 2012-01-06 02:25:34 UTC
Aww I'm sorry Corina! *gives Cori lots of loving!*
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#55 - 2012-01-06 02:27:24 UTC
Tippia isn't trolling but rather is using a debate tactic known as presenting arguments.


Cayate: hates ponys

Aramean Excavations
#56 - 2012-01-06 02:33:00 UTC
WOOT! I'm at -1!! *CHEER!*
Aramean Excavations
#57 - 2012-01-06 03:37:32 UTC
LOL I chose to ruin your self importance. Seriously. can I have your adress and phone number? I got some guys lining up wanting to use your services, willing to pay big bucks for a young virgin mouth that doesn't close!

And btw, you are not constructive in the elast. you cna' build any arguement, you on't try to put everyone down because the jealousy of not not being able to think anything up of your own. You couldn't respond to the answers I gave, couldn't counter a damn thing. I've not needed to try and recounter. you gave nothing in return. Heck you didn't offer to lick me out! Don't tell me you're tongue is too small too!

Obviously a forum posting is so important to you you cna't let **** go. are you that addicted to a GAME? HAHA! you're sadder than I thought!
Aramean Excavations
#58 - 2012-01-06 03:43:24 UTC
Well, as fun as you were before Tippia *yaaaaaawns* I'm tired. I'm gonna showrer get some sleep with my sexy GF, and probably get some sleep. If you wanna continue this post living, then by all means. post to yourself til you pass out from masturbating to your own typing. I got what's known as Real life Responsibilities to tend to. like getting laid! WOOT!
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#59 - 2012-01-06 04:45:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
I think we can safely say that Cayate is trolling. With no attempt to even argue for her suggestion since post one, its rather obvious.

So, I will resort to the meme. If intentional, 5/10 as you somehow kept Tippia in for this long. If unintentional, -10/10 and please seek help.

PS: Tippia's IQ is way above mine, which you would know if you bothered to argue your points instead of mudsling. One of the best debaters on this forum.
His only goal on this forum is to have the OP (in this case you) think through the suggestion and support their ideas, rather than just regurgitating whatever comes to mind.

EDIT: and you did admit that:
I [you]





Edit 2: Too bad Finn isn't here, that would have been really fun.
CCP Navigator
C C P Alliance
#60 - 2012-01-06 09:10:08 UTC
Locking this thread as the OP seems incapable of discussing ideas and instead seems to want to post off topic rants and personal attacks.
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