EVE General Discussion

Any kind of Isk inflation in EVE is a far far less effect on noobs than the fact that few corps will take them due to the way POS and corp permissions work. EVE is hard as hell to solo at first for good reason of which to encourage grouping.

So other issues besides people being isk rich are the problem. Making a new modular corp and POS permission system should help empty hisec quite nicely.

Isk Wealthy is optical.

China server Plex go for 2 billion ISk. That's massive ISK.

Our server also doesn't look at distribution. The people saying there is more ISK in EVE have no way of determining who has that ISK. It's very much at the structural level the same as real world capitalism. Most of it is held by the 1% and I assure you, any of the people reading this is NOT in the 1% group. (Exception might be Chribba)

We all might "think" we are rich and that's reflective of real world too. The truth being, most of us sit on very little in percentage of what is in the game. 99% of the money is in 1% of the wallets.

There is also the issue of asset perspective. That ISK is liquid ships in alliances that won't ever use it. So it's not even really in the game. They keep it in the even they get wiped out and that never happens. Mostly because we see decimations months in advance and can avoid them.

Branch is a good example. Goons did nothing there and won't. They displaced players but Branch residence were in evac as soon as it became clear the unbeatable Goon NAP train was coming. Add to that any ships that are lost don't really require that much ISK to replace because the people who have all the ISK also control the Ship industries. So they keep thier ISK and just stop selling thier minerals, using it to make thier ships. That was the original purpose of it, to replace ships but when no ships need replacement, it becomes surplus and the ISK distribution system kicks in.

The only thing we need to look at is PLEX. When PLEX are at 2 billion a pop, then EVE has hyper inflation because everyone is sitting on 50 billion ISK.

That's real world economics though and while it of course impacts EVE as a business, I would say the RMT value of EVE has far deeper impacts on the virtual economy of EVE.

EVE China has 30K subs. The ability to grind is much higher. The need to PvP off that grind time isn't there. They have null sec NAP that makes goon NAP look like dollarama compared to Wal-mart. I understand you are saying there might be less Plex in the China server. I just don't think that's the reason. I suspect the available plex for the pop is similar to the number here. They just have way more ISK.

That all said, Plex is still the marker for ISK available in game because Plex is the hardest asset in the game, on both servers.

I agree, I was just pointing out another influencing factor. To confirm PLEX price is strongly correlated with player wealth there we'd have to have some CEVE stats, though.
Also do note they are still running Tyrannis, meaning no Incursions, so no 100mil+ isk/h grinding. If they did, PLEX prices would be even higher.

What I tend to find interesting and notice about the call to nerf varous isk generating activities but largely high sec incursion is that the people shouting about it tend to fall into two catergories:

1) Null seccers who obviously wish to see their area of space given the perks and prestige largely to enthuse interest in their areas and activity.

2) People who have already made billions of isk in various isk generating activities and now want to see them nerfed so as to disadvantage those who havent had the similar opportunity, meanwhile conveniantly hanging onto their own assests.

If this wasnt the case why are people tending to be concerned about where the grass seems greener?

I have seen very little in terms of inflation due to what people like to point out as problematic isk generators, and claim every possible cause under the sun to label them as such as a result, when likley other factors are contrinutaory to the changes.

E.g. Plex price spike was claimed as being an incursion issue, and yet unsuprisingly the spike occured around the advent of the crucible expansion. Largely making the spike attributable to people extending their accounts and/or people returning to the game. Had it been a problem due to other issues it would have largley been seen to effect it gradually over a longer term whilst those activities where occuring.

Also very little detail has fallen out of economic understanding as a study to identify where the isk is flowing and wether more isk sinks or other needs are required. I'd prefer to see this understanding to be able to make "informed" decisions. But am hoping CCP have this awareness as I expect due to their dedicated economic staff. And largely I doubt it is a real problem else they would have changed things or not introduced them as is originally.

In conclusion and the point I want to make is I wish there was a proper study to understand these issues and not to be misslead by people using propoganda for their own particular interests.

As one of the 30-ish people at last fanfests economy round table with Dr. EyoG I confirm that CCP is aware and unhappy about the imbalance of isk entering and leaving the economy. At that moment, they wanted to introduce more sinks, but were unsure how to do it. And by judging the current situation, they still are.


I find it small-minded that people assume there must always be an ulterior motive for an interest in balancing, or in this case, macro-economics. But this being eve, I can't really blame ya...

I was aware of the conclusions of the need for isk sinks. But it still doesnt make a full study of all the isk generating activities. I'd expect income generation from NPC missions will largley generate more isk overall in the player base than some activities and yet this isk generation isnt equally challenged. So irrespective of wether isk sinks are required it doesnt identify which activities may be most causing the issues. So people naturally jump to possible obvious conclusions because it suits their selfish interests.

And its not an assumption, my conclusions are derived from actual experince of talking to various people within eve who have admitted to such aswell as simply revealing there interests so nothing to blame. I'd say look to yourself hypocrit about projecting upon me your own assumptions.

Given their new enthusiasm for Eve and the lessons learned perhaps they could be encouraged to release recent economy figures (there were reports years ago but I haven't seen one for a while).

There are clearly some very smart players (not me obv. ) and it would be nice to have some real insight instead of the idle speculation which, as I think this thread has brought out, contains some nuggets of wisdom mixed with an awful lot of noise.

Aineko - you mentioned there is research into virtual world economies - do you have any good links or references?

That's cause we're honey badgers

Me too but you don't see me calling people names