These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Decimals on Missile flightrange, cause a KM matters.

Author
Dantes Wolf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-10-18 11:58:43 UTC
Hey!

As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange.

Can we have a decimal on this?

Point being, you, unless you sit to do the math on it, don't know weather your missiles will go 18.001 KM or 18.999 KM - this can, actually matter a lot, so.. an extra decimal, if you can be arshed throwing it in?

That's it.

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".

Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
#2 - 2015-10-18 12:26:18 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:
Hey!

As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange.

Can we have a decimal on this?

Point being, you, unless you sit to do the math on it, don't know weather your missiles will go 18.001 KM or 18.999 KM - this can, actually matter a lot, so.. an extra decimal, if you can be arshed throwing it in?

That's it.

D.


It does not matter, because, you're not immobile, shooting at a immobile target. Which means actual effective distance to shoot missiles at is what? 3/4th to 7/8th of written max distance?

But i see no reason to not throw additional decimal(s) in tooltip. It is not time consuming, nor is it useful.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#3 - 2015-10-18 13:29:47 UTC
Nah, I agree with the OP. Scrams and Disruptors at least get a notification about what is the maximum range of the module when you attempt to activate it on a target out of range, and they do that to 3 decimal places back.

I agree it isn't all that useful due to the odd way that missile flight time works, but there is no downside to giving pilots more information, especially when it is over something so simple.

+1
Dantes Wolf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-10-18 13:31:04 UTC
Nyalnara wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:
Hey!

As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange.

Can we have a decimal on this?

Point being, you, unless you sit to do the math on it, don't know weather your missiles will go 18.001 KM or 18.999 KM - this can, actually matter a lot, so.. an extra decimal, if you can be arshed throwing it in?

That's it.

D.


It does not matter, because, you're not immobile, shooting at a immobile target. Which means actual effective distance to shoot missiles at is what? 3/4th to 7/8th of written max distance?

But i see no reason to not throw additional decimal(s) in tooltip. It is not time consuming, nor is it useful.



Excuse me while I accuse of you being a poor pilot.

Peace

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#5 - 2015-10-18 14:25:49 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:
Hey!

As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange.

Can we have a decimal on this?

Point being, you, unless you sit to do the math on it, don't know weather your missiles will go 18.001 KM or 18.999 KM - this can, actually matter a lot, so.. an extra decimal, if you can be arshed throwing it in?

That's it.

D.


If you are the one that starts shooting first, and considering how quickly most ships in the game can cover 1 km does the decimal portion of the distance make any practical difference?

Since missiles rarely take a straight line path from your ship to target since the target is usually moving does the decimal portion of the range to target make any real difference from a practical point of view, especailly considering that the distance the missile has to fly is constantly changing?

You can handle the complexities of estimating the actual distance a missile will have to fly based on the actual flight path it will have to follow, the speed of the missile and the speed of your target yet you expect us to believe that you cannot factor in the decimal portion of your missiles maximum range or even remember what it is?

If you cannot handle the complexities of calculating your missiles distance to target based on the flight path it will have to follow, it's speed and the speed of your target then what difference does the decimal portion make?

Given that the actual distance the missile has to fly can and quite possibly will change between when you launch and when the missile finally hit's the target is the decimal portion really all that critical?

Given that the range to target displayed by many of the in game things that measure distance or rounded down to the closest full kim does the decimal portion matter at all?

I am neither for or against your idea, the reasons you ask for it though don't make much sense.
Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
#6 - 2015-10-18 16:37:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyalnara
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Scrams and Disruptors at least get a notification about what is the maximum range of the module when you attempt to activate it on a target out of range, and they do that to 3 decimal places back.


Well, there is no message for when you activate guns at something while out of optimal/falloff. Because you're supposed to know those values, at it is what makes you a god pilot. Knowing your missiles range falls in the same category.



Dantes Wolf wrote:
Excuse me while I accuse of you being a poor pilot.


How nice of you. Still wondering whether i should report that for trolling or non-constructive posting. Well, at least when i reply to someone i don't need to do personal attacks, because i'm able to throw arguments as to why i disagree with what's being said.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7 - 2015-10-18 16:40:13 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:
As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange. Can we have a decimal on this?

Does this imply that we'd actually see a fix for the missile range bug that has been plaguing New Eden? Because at this point you can't even reliably hit out to maximum flight range, so adding a decimal point is somewhat moot...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Iain Cariaba
#8 - 2015-10-18 17:18:27 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:
As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange. Can we have a decimal on this?

Does this imply that we'd actually see a fix for the missile range bug that has been plaguing New Eden? Because at this point you can't even reliably hit out to maximum flight range, so adding a decimal point is somewhat moot...

I'd like to see tye range fix, but as to OP, no. As a long time user of missiles, I can honestly say that in 99.999% of all cases, that extra distance does not matter.
Azazel The Misanthrope
Oblivion's Pendulum
Top Tier
#9 - 2015-10-18 19:12:44 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:
As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange. Can we have a decimal on this?

Does this imply that we'd actually see a fix for the missile range bug that has been plaguing New Eden? Because at this point you can't even reliably hit out to maximum flight range, so adding a decimal point is somewhat moot...

I'd like to see tye range fix, but as to OP, no. As a long time user of missiles, I can honestly say that in 99.999% of all cases, that extra distance does not matter.


None of these dissenting opinions make any sense. You people are just being antagonistic for the sake of it. There is no harm or drawback to adding ONE decimal point to a range value. At WORST it could only serve as a benefit to knowing what your exact range is. I do not understand why the contest over something so simple at all.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-10-18 20:09:18 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:
As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange. Can we have a decimal on this?

Does this imply that we'd actually see a fix for the missile range bug that has been plaguing New Eden? Because at this point you can't even reliably hit out to maximum flight range, so adding a decimal point is somewhat moot...

I'd like to see tye range fix, but as to OP, no. As a long time user of missiles, I can honestly say that in 99.999% of all cases, that extra distance does not matter.


None of these dissenting opinions make any sense. You people are just being antagonistic for the sake of it. There is no harm or drawback to adding ONE decimal point to a range value. At WORST it could only serve as a benefit to knowing what your exact range is. I do not understand why the contest over something so simple at all.


Consider that decimal to be 0, you will not hit out to that range unless the stars align perfect and your target dont move
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#11 - 2015-10-18 20:11:27 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:
As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange. Can we have a decimal on this?

Does this imply that we'd actually see a fix for the missile range bug that has been plaguing New Eden? Because at this point you can't even reliably hit out to maximum flight range, so adding a decimal point is somewhat moot...

I'd like to see tye range fix, but as to OP, no. As a long time user of missiles, I can honestly say that in 99.999% of all cases, that extra distance does not matter.


None of these dissenting opinions make any sense. You people are just being antagonistic for the sake of it. There is no harm or drawback to adding ONE decimal point to a range value. At WORST it could only serve as a benefit to knowing what your exact range is. I do not understand why the contest over something so simple at all.



you lose more range to the way the server ticks than any amount of decimals shown.

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#12 - 2015-10-18 22:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Lady Rift wrote:

you lose more range to the way the server ticks than any amount of decimals shown.




this really.

And the magical fudge factor you have to apply to be under the paper number given anyway to account for missile ramping up, target moving, etc.

Basically firing from bleeding edge of range is bad for starters. Going from type int to type float and representing output not changing much. You are still creeping in at least a few km's, a few km's at x decimal point precision not helping much. As well....even the whole number fudge factor Is more art than science really. My comfort zone may/will be different from others.

Would there be harm in this? No. Would it be worth the time if an explicit type casting done...not really as not even sure where the casting is done (is the range at the top of a list of calcs explicit float then casted on output, or is it int explicit cast at the top?). 2 ships flying several hundreds of m/s on a non instant hit weapons system....int rounded down in this case a reasonable caveat really.
Iain Cariaba
#13 - 2015-10-19 00:53:35 UTC
Azazel The Misanthrope wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:
As headline: Currently the missile flightrange i indicated in full kilometers, stopping at the lowest full Kilomter of the missile flightrange. Can we have a decimal on this?

Does this imply that we'd actually see a fix for the missile range bug that has been plaguing New Eden? Because at this point you can't even reliably hit out to maximum flight range, so adding a decimal point is somewhat moot...

I'd like to see tye range fix, but as to OP, no. As a long time user of missiles, I can honestly say that in 99.999% of all cases, that extra distance does not matter.


None of these dissenting opinions make any sense. You people are just being antagonistic for the sake of it. There is no harm or drawback to adding ONE decimal point to a range value. At WORST it could only serve as a benefit to knowing what your exact range is. I do not understand why the contest over something so simple at all.

Because there really is no benefit in knowing your exact range with missiles, because the many factors involved with using missiles in the first place makes them impossible to use at that range. When using missiles, that <1% range you want displayed is utterly meaningless, therefore it would be nothing more than a gigantic waste of time to implement this.
Dantes Wolf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-10-21 09:00:48 UTC
Think for a moment, would you? There's a reason I'm asking for this, not just to write a post about it.

To all the critics here, 1 KM DOES matter:

On the Raven, you'll have your ranges on the torps, around 15-30 KM, depending on skills and riggs. That is, interestingly, the very same range, that a lot of NPC's orbit you - knowing when to leave, for instance, your Sentry drones in bay, or if safe to take them out, makes the knowledge of the X factor 1 KM interesting to know.

On the Drake Fleet Issue, your HAM's will, with decent skills, top before 19, but after 18 KM. As the DFI is a speedy boat, and, as such, is a suitable fit for orbit-agressions. - Knowing your speeds, at 15500 Default orbit meters, and that of 16250, is IMPORTANT, as you will, depending on the last X factor KM, slide eiter in, or out, of attack range and, as such, either lose or gain your DPS. (Yes, I know, Many targets move around too, but, again on the DFI, you orbit @ around 1.000 - 1.700 meters,depending on fit, skils and boots - this makes your agressions on a slow target, very calcuable, IF you know your exact range on your missiles.

On the Golem: Torp-fit + Bastion module: Should I, or should I not leave bastion module? ARE my NPC's orbitting within my range, or not..?

Basicly, to make the most of your ships, to get the edges of your combat, you will want to know the flightrange on your missiles, and, as such, the last digit matters.

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".

Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
#15 - 2015-10-21 09:11:25 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:
Basicly, to make the most of your ships, to get the edges of your combat, you will want to know the flightrange on your missiles, and, as such, the last digit matters.


Well, maybe next time note said last digit when editing your fit on EFT? Because that last km is only realistically used when theorycrafting, and that's when you should be remembering it.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-10-21 11:50:12 UTC
Two things you need to remember:

a) missile range remains an approximation due to an undisclosed (afaik) acceleration variable. they don't come out the tubes at 100% speed.

b) If the enemy is moving then the direction of that movement matters making paper "range" nothing more than a hope and a prayer.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2015-10-21 13:02:23 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Two things you need to remember:

a) missile range remains an approximation due to an undisclosed (afaik) acceleration variable. they don't come out the tubes at 100% speed.

b) If the enemy is moving then the direction of that movement matters making paper "range" nothing more than a hope and a prayer.


They also rarely fly in straight line... Especially during the acceleration phase.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#18 - 2015-10-21 13:31:22 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:
Basicly, to make the most of your ships, to get the edges of your combat, you will want to know the flightrange on your missiles, and, as such, the last digit matters.

D.

On a piece of paper and having the time to actually calculate all the things, yes you are correct that last digit would matter.
However in the practical make a decision right now world of EvE that last digit is irrelevant.

But let's just for discussion say you had that last digit and set up a theoretical situation and give you that 1 digit on your range.

Your missiles range is 19,000.3 kilometers.

We are in a perfect world so you and your target are stationary(0 velocity) so the range does not change mid flight and the missile does not have to fly any extra distance to catch your moving target.

Your overview lists range to target as 19,000 kilometers.

Now the important question will your missiles hit your target or fall short?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-10-21 13:51:45 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Two things you need to remember:

a) missile range remains an approximation due to an undisclosed (afaik) acceleration variable. they don't come out the tubes at 100% speed.

b) If the enemy is moving then the direction of that movement matters making paper "range" nothing more than a hope and a prayer.


They also rarely fly in straight line... Especially during the acceleration phase.



In fact, three things. When your ship is big enough.

Missiles launch from the centre of the model. Overview range is measured from edge to edge.

Credit to RocketX for reminding me of this fact, as one can imagine in a titan, that's a LOT of range gone.
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#20 - 2015-10-21 17:21:23 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:


Basicly, to make the most of your ships, to get the edges of your combat, you will want to know the flightrange on your missiles, and, as such, the last digit matters.

D.



Not with missiles. These aren't fire away at max range weapons. Beside the above tech stuff covered (ramp up for example) they lack instant hit that makes this more viable like with turrets. Just need that target to be in range that one second when calculations stop time, look at target info at that time, runs the numbers, and says lucky you , arty hit and hit big. You know this in milliseconds. Missiles...its like american idol. We will tell you who won this week.....after a long commercial break.


Guess they don't teach this anymore but when I started long ago (and it was as missile chucking caldari) you picked up a nifty little trick. Does wonders, give it a go really.

Take max range, take a percentage of it away. This was your best as you can get actual max range. The exact opposite of your missing km. But a better way to do it really. As you get better applied damage potentially. Since chance of missile hit increases (missiles that don't hit don't add to dps totals). My fudge factor if the pvp god liked me covered ramp up and hopefully any creative flying that missile may have to do.


Best since lacking hard equations from CCP (and we can't guess from fitting tools in game or out of game) its all you really had.

I settled to around 10%. I have seen other percentages. Player taste and case by case here as always.

Say 80 km's. 80 -8 = 72 kms. This was my more realistic max range. Put in paper max range of choice for weapons.

This more art than science to compensate for ramp up time and all the other factors mentioned. Worth noting this just max range, I got closer to actually hit stuff better. 72 in this case was the range at which I knew if over, I am pissing away ammo.
12Next page