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Need help for Officer spawn damage calculation
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Vypera Blackneck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-10-15 11:59:53 UTC
Hi there,
Ok, first of all explain what I want to know.
So I'm living in 0.0 (drone). I want to hunt for Belt Rat Officer Spawns. I mainly thinking in cruiser / BC size hulls for the purpose (because of skills and personal preference). I have quite a lot of fits ready for ratting but can't decide because of lack of info what kind of fight I'm looking for there. I was looking up on Google but frankly not much info around either.

So I've decided to do a (rough) calculation based on info I found on eveuni-wiki and other pages like this about Drone Officers.

Here is the spreadsheet

It shows this particular officer (Unit D-34343) just simply can't do any damage against cruiser sig. radius on it's optimal/orbit range.
However it's a bit suspicious because of the stationary cruiser gets practically 0 damage while a slowly orbiting one does... a little.
(it still seemingly 0% if I change the 0m/s to 1m/s to avoid the multiplication with 0) How that adds up?

I repeated the same calculation with another of the drone officers data (Unit P-343554) with the same outcome (you find it on the spreadsheet). The number are rough and not totally sure about the webbed speeds are right, I've just simply multiplied the porpped speed/base speed by 0.5 to keep it simple)

Can anyone support or reject this by experience or calculation?

Any comment would be helpful.
o7
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-10-15 20:45:38 UTC
I don't know about anything of all that, but I can say with gold-plated certainty you're in the right corporation.

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Spruillo
Lord Narg Corporation
#3 - 2015-10-15 20:59:04 UTC
Just private tract me any speed/dmg loot for way more reasonable sell than jita ill accept.

PLAYIN SPACE TRUCKS VROOM VROOM
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#4 - 2015-10-15 21:24:31 UTC
To find the answer, you must first step into the sonic shower and clean that expensive **** off your face.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-10-16 18:56:01 UTC
Vypera Blackneck wrote:
However it's a bit suspicious because of the stationary cruiser gets practically 0 damage while a slowly orbiting one does... a little.
(it still seemingly 0% if I change the 0m/s to 1m/s to avoid the multiplication with 0) How that adds up?

It's actually not unusual for a larger ship to "out track" it's own weapons when orbiting a stationary target. In your spreadsheet, the orbit speed of the drone is 761, which is apparently too fast for him to track you.

Now when you start to move, he's no longer orbiting you. For instance if he moves only slightly faster than you he'll be mostly "chasing you" in a straight line, which allows him to track very well. It doesn't really look like your sheet accounts for that because you're just taking the difference between your speeds and calling it transversal, which isn't realistic because it doesn't account for the direction component of the velocity vector.

Basically you need to be fast enough to orbit him (high transversal) or slow enough for him to orbit you (also high transversal) but if you're somewhere in the middle it gets complicated. Against an intelligent opponent (PvP) the second method isn't reliable because they won't just orbit you and ruin their own tracking if they know what they're doing.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Vypera Blackneck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-10-17 16:47:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vypera Blackneck
Cara Forelli wrote:
Vypera Blackneck wrote:
However it's a bit suspicious because of the stationary cruiser gets practically 0 damage while a slowly orbiting one does... a little.
(it still seemingly 0% if I change the 0m/s to 1m/s to avoid the multiplication with 0) How that adds up?

It's actually not unusual for a larger ship to "out track" it's own weapons when orbiting a stationary target. In your spreadsheet, the orbit speed of the drone is 761, which is apparently too fast for him to track you.

Now when you start to move, he's no longer orbiting you. For instance if he moves only slightly faster than you he'll be mostly "chasing you" in a straight line, which allows him to track very well. It doesn't really look like your sheet accounts for that because you're just taking the difference between your speeds and calling it transversal, which isn't realistic because it doesn't account for the direction component of the velocity vector.

Basically you need to be fast enough to orbit him (high transversal) or slow enough for him to orbit you (also high transversal) but if you're somewhere in the middle it gets complicated. Against an intelligent opponent (PvP) the second method isn't reliable because they won't just orbit you and ruin their own tracking if they know what they're doing.


Yupp. Thanks for the comment. I see your point.
My thinking is - it's also from the wiki linked above - the Transversal speed is the highest when something is moving perpendicular to the other, also when an object orbit a point it's movement is perpendicular to the centre in every moment.

So if two objects orbit 'each other' with different speed then the faster one will orbit the slower. When they circling in the same direction (clockwise or counter clockwise) the relative speed will be the higher speed decreased by the slower one's (this is what I used on the spreadsheet).

I think, the problem with the stationery one doesn't get any damage while the slowly orbiting one does get some is because while the stationery has no velocity at all ergo the orbiting one will be spinning around it on the full speed, while the slowly moving one will have some transversal which decrease the relative transversal of the orbiting one's so it has a bit better chance to track the target.

I run a little test with some drone BS - sadly no officers turned up[ for the test - and actually the calculation seems to be right. Being battleships those ships have pretty bad tracking and because of the lover sig. radius it actually misses pretty much every time if you keep them around 3km, well the only issue with the test BS's that they don't want to stay that close.

So it looks odd because of the input data. If that data is correct, then a cruiser can tank the Officer easily if it can stay in close range... breaking the tank of an Officer is another matter.