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[Help and Support] Ability to notify CCP in event of a RL emergency.

Author
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-10-07 05:50:48 UTC
The moderators in the Broadcast4Reps channel would like to see a formalized way to notify CCP in the event of a player emergency. When a player makes a statement that infers immediate suicidal or homicidal behavior, where another reasonable person believes loss of life is imminent, there needs to be a system that gets immediate notice by a CCP employee (i.e. GM). As it stands, we've had to submit tickets under the heading "Stuck player", and then spam any CSM or CCP folks we might know until they see it and get in contact.

I've been rolling this over in my head, trying to find a solution that won't be misused or abused (intentionally or unintentionally) by players. Without knowing the workings of CCP's monitoring system, I'm not sure about the best solution.

Assuming CCP has 24/7 coverage via GM's (which, I don't know if this is accurate), the only solution that comes to mind is providing a trouble ticket for "real life emergency" that creates a red flag for GM's, with perhaps an addendum to the EULA that prohibits abusing that ticket header with threat of a ban.

Anyone else have any ideas?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#2 - 2015-10-07 05:55:10 UTC
I definitely like the idea behind this as players just don't have the means of getting in touch with the right people in a situation like this.

If ccp had the resources to monitor such a thing 24/7 then they should be if they don't I would be willing to pay a bit extra every month so that they did
Anthar Thebess
#3 - 2015-10-07 06:27:07 UTC
CCP cannot manage this.
It is not about 'this is not CCP job' - simply to many players, situations - and all possible help that CCP could provide ends the moment player log off.
CCP cannot pass personal information to any one, and it cannot be used in this way as depending on the country player is from , we have different law regulations.

This is not the way to manage this kind of issues!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-10-07 06:34:28 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
CCP cannot manage this.
It is not about 'this is not CCP job' - simply to many players, situations - and all possible help that CCP could provide ends the moment player log off.
CCP cannot pass personal information to any one, and it cannot be used in this way as depending on the country player is from , we have different law regulations.

This is not the way to manage this kind of issues!



Except they can use there information to get in contact with authorities in the area of t the person in question. And worth most countries they can give such information to those authorities if they have reason to assume a life or loves are in danger
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2015-10-07 07:18:54 UTC
Possibly the best is a ticket section for it.
With big red letters that abuse of the feature will result in consequences.
Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-10-07 10:20:52 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
CCP cannot manage this.
It is not about 'this is not CCP job' - simply to many players, situations - and all possible help that CCP could provide ends the moment player log off.
CCP cannot pass personal information to any one, and it cannot be used in this way as depending on the country player is from , we have different law regulations.

This is not the way to manage this kind of issues!



Except they can use there information to get in contact with authorities in the area of t the person in question. And worth most countries they can give such information to those authorities if they have reason to assume a life or loves are in danger


This.

Granted - and this may sound harsher than I mean it to - it is worth mentioning that it is simply not CCP's responsibility.

They would never, and should never, be held in any negative light for not being able to contact emergency services for a player's well-being. Simply put, they can only provide the limited amount of information that may be allowed to them via the player from their accounts. And that is still only viable if emergency services are available and easy to contact - which, it may not be in every country/province. Throw in any number of other variables, and it becomes that much more difficult of a task to demand.

CCP is not liable or responsible for anyone's mental and physical well being. They are a game developer, providing a product to entertain us. That said, we're all human beings that care about one another, and CCP (like many companies) go the extra mile to do their best to be reasonable, caring people when we find ourselves in a difficult situation that could end with someone being hurt. CCP and its employees have always impressed me immensely in this regard, and it's one of the reasons I respect the company so very much.

But I digress, this isn't a thread to debate the merits, but only to find a more workable way to notify CCP employees in a case of an emergency so that they may take action if they feel that the situation warrants.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-10-07 10:35:30 UTC
Definitely this would not be full proof but "every little bit..."
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#8 - 2015-10-07 14:29:43 UTC
I can visualize this conversation.
CCP - Hello emergency services in (insert location) this is CCP games in Iceland calling to notify you that one of our subscribers may be in imminent danger of (inset problem here).

ES - Do you have a location for this person, do you have them on the phone at this time?

CCP - We only have an address that was filed with us when they signed up, we cannot confirm that the person is actually at that location. No we do not have direct communications with this person at this time.

ES - How did you become aware of this situation if you are not in direct communication with this person?

CCP - It was reported to us by another subscriber.

I will leave it to your imagination as to how this conversation would go from there because to a large degree it will depend on departmental or local rules that may be in effect.

While I like the idea, when you consider that CCP has a world wide subscriber base and the extremely limited information they would have available I just do not see anyway that this could be made to work effectively and efficiently.

Getting to know those you game with and where they live is a far better solution although even that has some serious potential problems.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-10-07 14:41:02 UTC
You'll probably find the language barrier would be the biggest issue in a lot of locations.

The idea is good, the implementation will be very difficult - however it is possible that authorities already have things set up for things like this? I dunno.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2015-10-07 15:02:48 UTC
afkalt wrote:
You'll probably find the language barrier would be the biggest issue in a lot of locations.

The idea is good, the implementation will be very difficult - however it is possible that authorities already have things set up for things like this? I dunno.


The whole "Who and where is subscriber X?" issue would also be a clusterfuck to handle.
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#11 - 2015-10-07 15:14:19 UTC
I can't even express how much I hate the concept of this idea.

So here's a list of things...

1. Not CCP's job to protect people
2. Not YOUR job to protect people
3. This is a video game
4. Stop trying to control everyone and everything and make the whole world safe
5. You're aware that 10 million people per day (made up statistic) make death threats on the internet and 0.02% of them are credible?

All the people saying "The idea is good but it would be too difficult to implement".. no the idea is NOT good. We should not have our video game communities policing people's mental health and behaviors. If you don't know the person in real life, stay the **** out of their business.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#12 - 2015-10-07 15:14:35 UTC
They won't implement this simply because they'd have to report hundreds of miners per week to the police.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Coffee Rocks
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-10-07 20:45:19 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I can't even express how much I hate the concept of this idea.

So here's a list of things...

1. Not CCP's job to protect people
2. Not YOUR job to protect people
3. This is a video game
4. Stop trying to control everyone and everything and make the whole world safe
5. You're aware that 10 million people per day (made up statistic) make death threats on the internet and 0.02% of them are credible?

All the people saying "The idea is good but it would be too difficult to implement".. no the idea is NOT good. We should not have our video game communities policing people's mental health and behaviors. If you don't know the person in real life, stay the **** out of their business.


1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Yup
4. I think you're seriously mistaken about what B4R does.
5. You can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of all people know that.

I think you are mistaken about what we do. We do not police, and "control" is about the last thing any of us have or do. We are not mental health professionals, nor are we counselors. We are fellow players who make ourselves available to chat in the event that someone needs to vent about real life, needs someone to talk through a problem with, or just needs to step away from the meta and just have a human conversation. However, this also exposes us to the (thankfully) rare instance where a player makes it very clear they are about to harm themselves.

Also, you should know in regards to the practice: this is already happening, has been happening for a while, and it's not EVE specific. It's a common practice with most gaming companies in the event of a seriously troubling statement made by a player (within context, of course - all of us say crazy **** in the heat of battle or in the meta). Do a quick search under Blizzard to see the kinds of volumes they handle.

Regarding your statement: "We should not have our video game communities policing people's mental health and behaviors...", that's why I'm asking for constructive feedback about helping create a way to notify CCP that won't be mishandled or abused.
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#14 - 2015-10-07 21:34:40 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I can't even express how much I hate the concept of this idea.

So here's a list of things...

1. Not CCP's job to protect people
2. Not YOUR job to protect people
3. This is a video game
4. Stop trying to control everyone and everything and make the whole world safe
5. You're aware that 10 million people per day (made up statistic) make death threats on the internet and 0.02% of them are credible?

All the people saying "The idea is good but it would be too difficult to implement".. no the idea is NOT good. We should not have our video game communities policing people's mental health and behaviors. If you don't know the person in real life, stay the **** out of their business.


1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Yup
4. I think you're seriously mistaken about what B4R does.
5. You can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of all people know that.

I think you are mistaken about what we do. We do not police, and "control" is about the last thing any of us have or do. We are not mental health professionals, nor are we counselors. We are fellow players who make ourselves available to chat in the event that someone needs to vent about real life, needs someone to talk through a problem with, or just needs to step away from the meta and just have a human conversation. However, this also exposes us to the (thankfully) rare instance where a player makes it very clear they are about to harm themselves.

Also, you should know in regards to the practice: this is already happening, has been happening for a while, and it's not EVE specific. It's a common practice with most gaming companies in the event of a seriously troubling statement made by a player (within context, of course - all of us say crazy **** in the heat of battle or in the meta). Do a quick search under Blizzard to see the kinds of volumes they handle.

Regarding your statement: "We should not have our video game communities policing people's mental health and behaviors...", that's why I'm asking for constructive feedback about helping create a way to notify CCP that won't be mishandled or abused.


My feedback: we DON'T notify our VIDEO GAME companies at all about things like this.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#15 - 2015-10-08 01:00:56 UTC
All you can really do is file a support ticket. I know it's been done in the past and police paid a visit to the player to check on them.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Johann Rascali
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-10-08 02:53:32 UTC
It's kinda entertaining to me that the argument of "the authorities won't act on such little information" can hold any water while SWAT teams bust down doors of online streamers.

Blanking signatures doesn't seem to work, so this is here.

Teckos Pech
Patriotic Tendencies
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2015-10-08 03:37:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Donnachadh wrote:
I can visualize this conversation.
CCP - Hello emergency services in (insert location) this is CCP games in Iceland calling to notify you that one of our subscribers may be in imminent danger of (inset problem here).

ES - Do you have a location for this person, do you have them on the phone at this time?

CCP - We only have an address that was filed with us when they signed up, we cannot confirm that the person is actually at that location. No we do not have direct communications with this person at this time.

ES - How did you become aware of this situation if you are not in direct communication with this person?

CCP - It was reported to us by another subscriber.

I will leave it to your imagination as to how this conversation would go from there because to a large degree it will depend on departmental or local rules that may be in effect.

While I like the idea, when you consider that CCP has a world wide subscriber base and the extremely limited information they would have available I just do not see anyway that this could be made to work effectively and efficiently.

Getting to know those you game with and where they live is a far better solution although even that has some serious potential problems.


Considering a SWAT team will deploy with far, far less information in the US (often with tragic consequences--i.e. killing the wrong person)...that conversation probably wont go like that.

P.S. SWAT always kills the dog.

P.P.S. By the way that thing about notifying SWAT...might a good reason NOT to do this. Sometimes the local police send SWAT and it can and has ended very badly. I know the intentions are good...but sometimes, the police/authorities are NOT the best people to inform. For more on this, look at that guy I just linked, Radley Balko.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Dantes Wolf
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-10-15 02:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Dantes Wolf
The Oregon school-shooter gladly announced his killingspree on the web a day before setting out. People encouraged him, believing, that he wouldn't (or maybe, that he would?) go through with it.

The question raised is very serious indeed: DOES CCP have a responsebility for their players? - Are we even entitled to ask for them to have one?

The answer is probably no: CCP cannot, in any way, be held accountable for anything, any real person does (no matter the ingame rage, this client provokes).

However, and this is where it get's serious: Times are changing; there's Fame in being a killer, there's a mark on the historybooks for the ones that takes this leap - exposure: going out alone, or going out in a hail of bullets..?

- When you feel you have to snuff it, then why not take a few with you, while making a name for yourself...?

It's a new world, on account of the world wide web, and serialkillers and massmurderers alike has a fieldday beause of it.

Some of these people talk.

Some of them brags.

Some of them, weep their tears, while asking for a human to listen to them.

Also in EVE online.

Also to us, the players.

And we are, literally, defenseless if someone decides to announce their intent to kill or harm.

No. CCP does not HAVE a responsibility for any of our wellbeings, but it would be damned nice if they took it: A red alarm button, petition-style, with SERIOUS reprecautions if abused, giving, not only them, the persons in regard, or their possible victims, suicide or murder respectively, but also US, the players, an extra chance.

Everyone in question deserves it.

I, personally, fully support the idea, of "The red panic button of players".

+1

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#19 - 2015-10-16 14:37:23 UTC
Johann Rascali wrote:
It's kinda entertaining to me that the argument of "the authorities won't act on such little information" can hold any water while SWAT teams bust down doors of online streamers.

How long have the police been working on the case BEFORE the swat team was sent in? days? weeks? months?

Teckos Pech wrote:
Considering a SWAT team will deploy with far, far less information in the US (often with tragic consequences--i.e. killing the wrong person)...that conversation probably wont go like that.

Ever been a 911 operator, or an emergency services dispatcher? because the types of questions I posted are asked frequently at least by the 911 operators I know especially if the calls are coming from or they suspect the calls are coming from a cell phone.

Do you really think that the police / fire / ambulance here in the US are going to dispatch units based on a phone call they receive from a game company in Iceland without asking a few questions first?

This whole idea is filed with so many potential problem areas that it is really not feasible, I mean really what could possibly go wrong.

You have untrained people that are doing the initial evaluation of the situation often based on nothing more than a comment made in a chat channel somewhere on the internet.

Other than your shared gaming experiences do you know anything about the person who you are concerned about, what do you know about their life as a whole.

Do you fully understand the local customs, language and dialect they are speaking, this is compounded when you consider that there is likely a large percentage of the players that are not native English speakers. And while we are on the topic of languages which language does CCP use for this system, or would they need to keep people on staff 24 / 365 that speak all languages possible based on their subscribers.

Given that words often have opposite meanings are you really hearing what you think you are, or just a local slang variant definition. As an example we went through that whole phase some time back were "bad" did not always mean bad, sometimes it meant really good

So a player in US pushes the panic button and reports a corp member that lives in Australia to a game company in Iceland.
The game company looks up information on the players address which takes a few seconds but then what do they do? How do they know the proper emergency contact phone number to call, do they have it on file with the account info?

And yet this brings us back to perhaps one of the biggest problems, does the player still live at that address, or did they move and forgot to update CCP with their new address? What happens if the player you are reporting is on a trip out of their home country using a laptop to log in how can CCP know this information, do you even know they are away from their home address?

While this idea seems good at the basic level when it comes down to working around the potential problems associated with it there is just no practical way to make it work. We as players getting to know each other, where we live, what we do for a job is the ultimate answer to this situation
Zimmer Jones
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2015-10-16 15:00:49 UTC
The spirit of the idea is good, but any kind of implementation would be an international law nightmare. There are places where you would not get help, unless it is defined as incarceration. Granted my tinfoil is strong, but player communities can help and should be about the extent of it.

As a someone who knows it personally, most people have to hit rock bottom before they even acknowledge that they might need help. I was lucky to have to friends in my old corp that had contact info for emergencies. But here is a point continually hammered home by the doctors I have spoken with: acting on warning signs before the person has asked for help will likely make the situation worse.

Once they ask, it is a different matter, yes, but support should come from peers not corporations. Peers that know and have similar problems they fight, but more than anything want to help steer the troubled away from mistakes they might regret later, of might not be able to regret.

It is important, but not the corporations responsibility. Ccp has given us tools to help, they might just need to be more visible.

Sorry for the wall.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

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