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[December] Discovering a New Expedition Frigate

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Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#181 - 2015-10-14 04:08:10 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
As much as I appreciate getting more hulls for existing resource harvesting types, can we PLEASE at least know if you're ever going to work on a ship tailored for gas harvesting?

I'm getting very irritated that being able to fit more than 2 gas cloud harvesters is completely useless, making the description of the skill completely redundant (except at stopping me from making the 8-vacuum ship I've always dreamed of).

All I've ever wanted is a ship with 6 highs, 5 turret hardpoints and an ore bay, CCP...



the venture mines gas faster than any other ship. and they made it cheap by only needing 2 harvesters. lv 5 of the skill gives t2 harvesters which is worth the train just for that.



so there is already a gas mining ship, then its t2 version is a ice mining ship (although not better than some barges) and the other t2 is just a better ninja than the t1.
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#182 - 2015-10-14 17:53:54 UTC
GrandLynx wrote:
When the Discovery becomes available on Sisi - would be possible to have a fixed/permanent Shattered Wormhole which can be used to test this ship?

and naturally, when this will be available to put through some paces?


When sis is updated to the December release it should be fully available to test. Before then there might be something there to test with, but it'll probably only be the pieces which needed to be submitted in order for art to do their part.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#183 - 2015-10-14 17:57:02 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
As much as I appreciate getting more hulls for existing resource harvesting types, can we PLEASE at least know if you're ever going to work on a ship tailored for gas harvesting?

I'm getting very irritated that being able to fit more than 2 gas cloud harvesters is completely useless, making the description of the skill completely redundant (except at stopping me from making the 8-vacuum ship I've always dreamed of).

All I've ever wanted is a ship with 6 highs, 5 turret hardpoints and an ore bay, CCP...

the venture mines gas faster than any other ship. and they made it cheap by only needing 2 harvesters. lv 5 of the skill gives t2 harvesters which is worth the train just for that.

so there is already a gas mining ship, then its t2 version is a ice mining ship (although not better than some barges) and the other t2 is just a better ninja than the t1.


Or if you feel you need to be a little safer, the Prospect has the same gas harvesting bonuses.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#184 - 2015-10-14 18:07:37 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
GrandLynx wrote:
When the Discovery becomes available on Sisi - would be possible to have a fixed/permanent Shattered Wormhole which can be used to test this ship?

and naturally, when this will be available to put through some paces?


When sis is updated to the December release it should be fully available to test. Before then there might be something there to test with, but it'll probably only be the pieces which needed to be submitted in order for art to do their part.


Is there any plan to remove Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator or add a small?

If my math is correct (big if :P) only Procurer and Retriever will be beaten for Ice harvesting at max skills with same number of ice rigs (0 or 1) with Covetor without rig is mine ice faster than Discovery would with rig.

With a rig the Discovery should beat Mackinaw/Skiff (without rig) by around 1.3sec per block


I see no harm in letting this ship get that extra 12% cycle bonus when its still on the same level as unrigged exhumers that either have massive EHP or cargo advantages
CCP Terminus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#185 - 2015-10-14 18:17:23 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Is there any plan to remove Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator or add a small?

If my math is correct (big if :P) only Procurer and Retriever will be beaten for Ice harvesting at max skills with same number of ice rigs (0 or 1) with Covetor without rig is mine ice faster than Discovery would with rig.

With a rig the Discovery should beat Mackinaw/Skiff (without rig) by around 1.3sec per block


I see no harm in letting this ship get that extra 12% cycle bonus when its still on the same level as unrigged exhumers that either have massive EHP or cargo advantages

At this point there are no plans to remove the medium Ice Harvester Accelerator, nor will we be adding in a Small for the Discovery and Prospect to use.

The Discovery is, by design, the slowest ice mining ship (high individual block speed, slowest blocks/min). This is because it's not only cheaper to field one, but we want it to fulfill its own role instead of stepping on the toes of the mining barges and exhumers.

@CCP_Terminus // Game Designer // Team Size Matters

Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#186 - 2015-10-16 18:15:34 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):

5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
4% bonus to all shield resistances


Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level):

5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
5% bonus to Mining yield


This is something I really don't understand....

To fit your ass into a T2 ship you need the T1 ship prerequisites to lvl 5. (Minus the odd grandfather here and there.)

So why have (in this case) "Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level)" Instead have "MISC Bonuses" or something similar.

Example wrote:

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):

5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
4% bonus to all shield resistances


Mining Frigate/MISC bonuses:

25% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
25% bonus to Mining yield
bunzing heet
House of Corvus
#187 - 2015-10-16 20:44:20 UTC
Ty ccp I'm allready getting rich shooting astero's and other scanning and mining ships so all mining frigs viable for me to kill and loot are more then welcome
They only got to remember to bring me better loot :)

Fly safe keep killing And remember I'm watching you !!!!

Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
#188 - 2015-10-17 02:08:54 UTC
Mai Khumm wrote:
CCP Terminus wrote:

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):

5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
4% bonus to all shield resistances


Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level):

5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
5% bonus to Mining yield


This is something I really don't understand....

To fit your ass into a T2 ship you need the T1 ship prerequisites to lvl 5. (Minus the odd grandfather here and there.)

So why have (in this case) "Mining Frigate bonuses (per skill level)" Instead have "MISC Bonuses" or something similar.

Example wrote:

Expedition Frigates bonuses (per skill level):

5% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
4% bonus to all shield resistances


Mining Frigate/MISC bonuses:

25% reduction to Ice Harvesting duration
25% bonus to Mining yield





when you could lose sp there were edge cases where you could fly T2 ships with out lv5 of the t1
Thonys Visser
I Still Standing Inc
#189 - 2015-10-19 12:08:23 UTC
Well it is just a ship ,to fill a gap in low
nothing more

its not a real mining vessel (there are better ships)
its just a compromise

minnig = the cuckoo in the nest. or deliberate a neglected profession

i am still waiting for a BS mining vessel (i never asked for this vessel)

but perhaps ccp is waiting for the day...... i stop with EVE
what is not unlikely to happen soon and that is for one reason i will not be FORCED to go to low ,because ccp wants it that way

HS is on a death track ,and this ship is not going to change that..

Greeting to.... the oh so lovely community and the ccp people P




Perrdy Lady
Doomheim
#190 - 2015-10-19 19:42:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Perrdy Lady
15000 ore hold ON A FRIGATE ?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????? I look forward to the ore hold increase on every single barge and exhumer then, otherwise this makes no sense whatsoever.
Franklin en Chalune
Stark's Kerbside Hauler Universal Logistics
#191 - 2015-10-20 02:42:31 UTC
Perrdy Lady wrote:
15000 ore hold ON A FRIGATE ?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????? I look forward to the ore hold increase on every single barge and exhumer then, otherwise this makes no sense whatsoever.

It wouldn't make sense for it to have a smaller ore hold though. It's *purely* designed as an ice mining ship, and ice is 1000m3 per block.

If you had the same ore hold as the Prospect, then your hold would fill up too quickly to make trips worthwhile. Hell, it's a bit too small to begin with on that front anyway!

Now, if it had, say, auto-ice-compression, like some people have suggested, then it could afford to have a smaller ore hold, perhaps even on the order of the Venture's hold, because with auto-ice-compression it'd be able to hold 50 blocks of ice then, while the ship itself already puts people off from mining regular asteroids with it. As things stand though, because it's an ice miner it needs the larger ore hold.

Plus, that's not THAT large a hold, it's not exactly unbalanced
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#192 - 2015-10-20 07:57:21 UTC
Perrdy Lady wrote:
15000 ore hold ON A FRIGATE ?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?????? I look forward to the ore hold increase on every single barge and exhumer then, otherwise this makes no sense whatsoever.


not even big enough as far as im concerned considering it's purpose is to mine in one system and haul it back to base in another system. I think it should mine + automatically compress the ore so you can mine for a long time before you have to haul it back.
but i still like the concept of these expedition ships.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#193 - 2015-10-20 11:06:30 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
I think it should mine + automatically compress the ore so you can mine for a long time before you have to haul it back.

Honestly if that was a unique property of Expedition Ships (coupled with a capacity nerf obv.) that would be pretty interesting.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
#194 - 2015-10-20 19:39:32 UTC
Selto Black wrote:
I like this, however, it does put a bit of a skill wall up for younger players who wish to gather resources under hostile conditions.


Because everyone should be able to do everything instantly? Honestly, it's becoming ridiculous.
Amarisen Gream
Pleasant Peninsula Productions
Order of Allied Knights
#195 - 2015-10-21 07:37:25 UTC
I want echo the others in the cargo/ore bay size.

Repackaged frigates are 2500 m3
Unpacked they are what 20-30k m3

This ships ore bay is like half its size.

I feel CCP is doing a great job at giving as a new ship with a purpose ( as they failed to do so with the shattered wh even when those places have ore and ice), but the aspects of that new ship unbalance everything else.

Skiff = 100k m3 has an ore bay of 15k
Mac = 150k m3 has an ore bay of 35k
Hulk = 200k m2 has an ore bay of 8.5
(Check numbers - I remember you can fit 4 skiffs in an orca or two hulks.)

The ships M3 aka their area consumes while unpackaged and what they can have inside needs to have some logic - specially between purposes.
All theses ships have common build components by the lore - and thus should have near the same capacity

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs

Franklin en Chalune
Stark's Kerbside Hauler Universal Logistics
#196 - 2015-10-21 10:20:06 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:
I want echo the others in the cargo/ore bay size.

Repackaged frigates are 2500 m3
Unpacked they are what 20-30k m3

This ships ore bay is like half its size.

I feel CCP is doing a great job at giving as a new ship with a purpose ( as they failed to do so with the shattered wh even when those places have ore and ice), but the aspects of that new ship unbalance everything else.

Skiff = 100k m3 has an ore bay of 15k
Mac = 150k m3 has an ore bay of 35k
Hulk = 200k m2 has an ore bay of 8.5
(Check numbers - I remember you can fit 4 skiffs in an orca or two hulks.)

The ships M3 aka their area consumes while unpackaged and what they can have inside needs to have some logic - specially between purposes.
All theses ships have common build components by the lore - and thus should have near the same capacity


Volume* Not area.

As far as logic goes with regards to the ore hold sizes, lore-wise, you should bear in mind that the ore hold isn't likely just a giant box with ore chucked inside it. It could be any number of compartments around the ship. If I recall correctly, the Venture has "special ore loading mechanisms" which result in its higher ore yield from just two mining lasers. Well, if the Discovery can only fit a single laser anyway, half of the loading mechanisms could be stripped out, freeing up more space for ore to be stored. Just a thought.

That said, as has been suggested by many others in the thread, I'd be all for it having an ore hold size nerf combined with giving it ore-compression so that it could viably mine ice. Say, a 5km3 ore hold with automatic ore compression; that would let it hold 50 ice blocks, giving it a bit more staying power and more point to actually taking it into shattered WHs to mine ice. Of course, a 10km3 ore hold like the Prospect's would be even nicer with that, but that may be asking a little bit much :D.

Having to return a station or whathaveyou to deposit every 15 chunks of ice, when it mines as fast as it does, would get very tedious, very fast, especially if you're having to navigate through wormholes to actually get there and back, so it really could do with being able to compress the ice it's mining
DrysonBennington
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2015-10-22 14:15:18 UTC
Are we going to see a Gas Expedition Frigate in the future as well? Kind of biased against the Gas People not developing one for them.

I would think that the color scheme should be a new type of cloak that would mimic the environment it was around thus becoming that environment. It wouldn't be able to be seen visually but would appear on the Overview. Once locked though the frigate would be become visible to the naked eye as a blur of what the ship was reflecting and close to.

If not then a simple mixture of Ice colors would be nice.
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
#198 - 2015-10-22 21:32:55 UTC
Hello CCP Terminus,

Why does the Expedition Frigate skill require Electronics Upgrades V - when this skill does not provide a direct benefit to the hull?

I can see that you'd want the same (or greater) length training time as the Covert Op line - to prevent a short cut. Just my thought that the pre-reqs should help develop the intended use/purpose of the ship.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2015-10-22 21:47:38 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
when you could lose sp there were edge cases where you could fly T2 ships with out lv5 of the t1
Which edge cases were those? For as long as I've played using T2 ships required level V on the associated T1 ship skill (JFs aside) so if you lost the level V you wouldn't be able to fly the ship.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#200 - 2015-10-22 23:25:33 UTC
CCP Terminus wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Is there any plan to remove Medium Ice Harvester Accelerator or add a small?

If my math is correct (big if :P) only Procurer and Retriever will be beaten for Ice harvesting at max skills with same number of ice rigs (0 or 1) with Covetor without rig is mine ice faster than Discovery would with rig.

With a rig the Discovery should beat Mackinaw/Skiff (without rig) by around 1.3sec per block


I see no harm in letting this ship get that extra 12% cycle bonus when its still on the same level as unrigged exhumers that either have massive EHP or cargo advantages

At this point there are no plans to remove the medium Ice Harvester Accelerator, nor will we be adding in a Small for the Discovery and Prospect to use.

The Discovery is, by design, the slowest ice mining ship (high individual block speed, slowest blocks/min). This is because it's not only cheaper to field one, but we want it to fulfill its own role instead of stepping on the toes of the mining barges and exhumers.


so what you're saying is... its terrible