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Destroying Mobile Warp Disruptors should generate killmails

First post
Author
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#1 - 2015-10-14 10:53:56 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
So, it is hardly a new idea - I found several old, locked threads on the topic (e.g. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1825060 ), but destroying Mobile Warp Disruptors should generate killmails (as with any other destructible structure).

Why? Because I believe that killmails and lossmails are a great way to provide incentives for people to attack or defend bubbles. Killmails are also "free" - they do not generate any tangible reward - but everyone wants them. If I jump into one of those horrible, bubble-infested systems looking for a ratter or miner to kill, but they all get safe, it would be nice to have something to shoot (in addition to blowing up their jet cans, mobile tractor units, and etc.).

I believe that this will have a positive impact on some of the worst abuses regarding massive bubble spam, without undermining bubble effectiveness when employed under normal circumstances.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#2 - 2015-10-14 11:14:53 UTC
I see no reason why not, other deployable items of similar or greater value do so it is hardly without precedent.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
#3 - 2015-10-14 11:25:04 UTC
Fine by me. That way, i'll most likely take time to clean things on my way rather than just burn out of it.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-10-14 11:29:29 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
There is an intel impact here. Currently one must maintain a scout in the area to ensure the bubbles are still there, with killmails they will be notified of a passing fleet.

Whether that is good or bad I leave for others to debate, but should be considered alongside the OP.

Perhaps a neutral compromise is making them follow the existing RF model and when RF'd they drop tackle capabilities (bubble down) and delays a potential killmail until later, long after the intel value of the fallen bubble is obsolete. Maybe like...60 minutes RF timer, to keep it reasonable. People will still clear up the space junk, but no-one gets paged when their passive tackle wall falls.


Ed: Oh and as long as I'm dreaming, don't have them trigger a weapons timer either Twisted
Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-10-14 11:42:57 UTC
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#6 - 2015-10-14 12:03:47 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


If you mean just the tower itself then honestly I could live with that.

I get of tired of seeing folks boasting about how fabulous their killboard is when in reality 90% of it is defunct POS mods popped after the tower goes down but if your going to keep KMs for the mods you might as well generate them for any deployable item.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Nyalnara
Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions
#7 - 2015-10-14 12:05:49 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


Well, most of recently introduced deployables generate KMs already (MD, MTU, MMJU). Why not add bubbles to the list (except for the intel reason listed earlier)?

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-10-14 12:18:13 UTC
Intel is a bad reason to not do it, if you know people are loosing deployable in a system you have intel that there is activity there.

10 bubble KM in a system dont mean the gates are clear, it may have been 20 bubbles on a single gate or someone can have added new after they got removed.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#9 - 2015-10-14 12:31:52 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


We have killmails for mobile depots and mobile tractor units. Do you really think people should not get a killmail for destroying your MTU full of loot?

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#10 - 2015-10-14 12:33:38 UTC
afkalt wrote:
There is an intel impact here. Currently one must maintain a scout in the area to ensure the bubbles are still there, with killmails they will be notified of a passing fleet.

Whether that is good or bad I leave for others to debate, but should be considered alongside the OP.

Perhaps a neutral compromise is making them follow the existing RF model and when RF'd they drop tackle capabilities (bubble down) and delays a potential killmail until later, long after the intel value of the fallen bubble is obsolete. Maybe like...60 minutes RF timer, to keep it reasonable. People will still clear up the space junk, but no-one gets paged when their passive tackle wall falls.


Ed: Oh and as long as I'm dreaming, don't have them trigger a weapons timer either Twisted


If you do not want to shoot it, to save the intel value, that is a choice the aggressor has to make. I have no issues with that.

The same goes for anything you shoot. There have been several times when I am hunting where I do not shoot some low value target in order to make it appear that I am AFK or to hide my fleet's traces.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-10-14 12:37:23 UTC
Yeah, I really don't mind one way or the other, but someone had to mention it and I always try to get a middle ground if I'm pointing things out Smile
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#12 - 2015-10-14 12:38:50 UTC
Samillian wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


If you mean just the tower itself then honestly I could live with that.

I get of tired of seeing folks boasting about how fabulous their killboard is when in reality 90% of it is defunct POS mods popped after the tower goes down but if your going to keep KMs for the mods you might as well generate them for any deployable item.


I really do not care about whether someone has a 90% killboard or whatever. I know that is not the measure of an effective PVPer. Many of the best solo PVPers have relatively low efficiency - because they are not just F1-ing on every ship in a huge fleet fight. There are tons of people, however, who will do otherwise boring things for an intangible reward.

And the way I see it, it may or may not matter to everyone, but for those who do care, there should be some intangible impact to sticking 600m ISK worth of bubbles on a gate and going AFK.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#13 - 2015-10-15 05:51:37 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


Honestly, we should have killmails for everything that is:

(1) Destructible
(2) Has tangible in-game value

The biggest failing of Aegis Sov is that there are no killmails for destroying the super expensive things we destroy with Entosis Links.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Cold
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-10-16 10:30:19 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


Honestly, we should have killmails for everything that is:

(1) Destructible
(2) Has tangible in-game value

The biggest failing of Aegis Sov is that there are no killmails for destroying the super expensive things we destroy with Entosis Links.


Agreed, for reasons that are all outlined well in previous posts.
Anthar Thebess
#15 - 2015-10-16 10:39:11 UTC
Yes, people will have a reason to kill them.
Rek Seven
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-10-16 12:42:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
FT Diomedes wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


We have killmails for mobile depots and mobile tractor units. Do you really think people should not get a killmail for destroying your MTU full of loot?


I think the MTU should because they can contain loot, but anything that can't contain loot shouldn't generate a KM in my opinion.

I'd be ok with these other items dropping salvage, if people are looking for a reason to destroy them. I would prefer if people didn't hold kill mails in such high regard tbh.
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-10-16 13:17:02 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Yes, people will have a reason to kill them.


How about the reason that it's slowing you down/impacting your travel? Isn't that a reason to shoot them?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#18 - 2015-10-16 15:50:18 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Yes, people will have a reason to kill them.


How about the reason that it's slowing you down/impacting your travel? Isn't that a reason to shoot them?


Sure, that is one reason to shoot them. If I, as a small gang FC, ask my fleet to do something as boring as shooting a bunch of bubbles, it would at least be nice to see how much ISK you cost your enemy.

Additionally, I can spend the entire fleet saying, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Which seems very appropriate given the nationality of my nearest bubble-loving neighbors...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#19 - 2015-10-16 15:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
Rek Seven wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Should we have kill mails for all inanimate objects then?

I think the line should be drawn at POS.


We have killmails for mobile depots and mobile tractor units. Do you really think people should not get a killmail for destroying your MTU full of loot?


I think the MTU should because they can contain loot, but anything that can't contain loot shouldn't generate a KM in my opinion.

I'd be ok with these other items dropping salvage, if people are looking for a reason to destroy them. I would prefer if people didn't hold kill mails in such high regard tbh.


So, by your definition, an empty MTU should not generate a killmail?

You can pretend to disdain kill mails all you like, but everyone wants them. By the same corollary, no one wants a loss mail. Incentives to stick around and protect your property should exist in Eve. A red killboard because you lose 600m in large bubbles every time you leave them up is a powerful incentive not to go too crazy with the bubbles.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#20 - 2015-10-16 16:04:58 UTC
We agree that these things really should be generating killmails. I can't promise anything quite yet but we've added it to our list of little things.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

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