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Traffic Control

Author
Calanthas
Ninja Pixels
#1 - 2015-10-10 16:23:36 UTC
Is it possible for there to be a new structure that monitors traffic and perhaps make things riskier for gankers?

Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-10-10 16:48:11 UTC
Define riskier.
Define Structure.

Anythings possible but ya gotta do some of the mental legwork yourself before anyone will remotely consider it.
Calanthas
Ninja Pixels
#3 - 2015-10-10 16:58:57 UTC
Well I was thinking that adding on nerfs or buffs to a ship for hauling, would make things more complicated for the economy in general. The idea is to improve the economy by allowing freighters to keep hauling.

So one idea would be a structure set up during periods of high traffic on pipelines that monitors traffic, and allows ships with a certain mass unrestricted passage. Maybe the structure could operate based on player standings + mass of ship = unrestricted passage. Whereas ships that don't qualify, that try to restrict eligible ships, could have a "suspect" timer placed on them.

The structures could be unanchored and set up as CCP sees fit, based on traffic, all across New Eden.



Jaantrag
#4 - 2015-10-10 17:17:49 UTC
in hs id doupt the empires would be fuzzed about tracking and limiting certain ships to pass theyr systems would be more pain then good bits there ..

tho id see something like that in nullsec .. cyno jammers not allowing new capitals into system is kinda like that .. but yea with dissallowing smallers ships .. could get messy .. meybe one day when we get player built stargates to connect to wh systems or where ever they take us the gates can be locked down (scouts in the system can always scan down wh-s where non-locals can get in ..

but hs .. NO

EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back

Calanthas
Ninja Pixels
#5 - 2015-10-10 17:45:12 UTC
Jaantrag wrote:
in hs id doupt the empires would be fuzzed about tracking and limiting certain ships to pass theyr systems would be more pain then good bits there ..

tho id see something like that in nullsec .. cyno jammers not allowing new capitals into system is kinda like that .. but yea with dissallowing smallers ships .. could get messy .. meybe one day when we get player built stargates to connect to wh systems or where ever they take us the gates can be locked down (scouts in the system can always scan down wh-s where non-locals can get in ..

but hs .. NO


Im more interested in idea of allowing ships "with eligible mass" unrestricted access, through systems where that access would be unrestricted anyway (gank prevention). Ships "uneligible" that try to restrict (unprovoked bumping) access through systems having a security of 0.5 or higher, would be made suspect, by Concord or CCP, likely because of any decisions made by the structure.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2015-10-10 18:23:54 UTC
Calanthas wrote:
So one idea would be a structure set up during periods of high traffic on pipelines that monitors traffic, and allows ships with a certain mass unrestricted passage.

Define "high traffic."
Define "unrestricted passage."

I ask this because...

"High traffic" can be construed as the actual game server having issues moving large numbers of people back and forth... which is not an issues with can really create new rules or a gimmicky mechanic for because it is a "technical limitations" issue.

"Unrestricted passage" as it applies to EVE means no player can interfere with you... which goes against a few core design tenants of EVE (no instancing, players can always affect other players, no player can have mechanical benefits without also paying a mechanical cost).

Calanthas wrote:
The structures could be unanchored and set up as CCP sees fit, based on traffic, all across New Eden.

Another core design tenant of EVE: the DEVs create tools for us players to use for / against each other... they do not directly administrate or control player behavior.
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#7 - 2015-10-10 18:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyalnara
Calanthas wrote:
Im more interested in idea of allowing ships "with eligible mass" unrestricted access, through systems where that access would be unrestricted anyway (gank prevention). Ships "uneligible" that try to restrict (unprovoked bumping) access through systems having a security of 0.5 or higher, would be made suspect, by Concord or CCP, likely because of any decisions made by the structure.


First, how do the system guess if someone is actively trying to bump or if it is unintentional? Well, it can't reliably do that. And i'm pretty sure there would be a great deal of whining should ships go randomly suspect. So either it automatically suspect-flag everything which has restricted access, or it does absolutely nothing.

Also, about that "eligible mass"... if you don't want the server to lag because too much calculations to handle, it would check eligibility by making all ships above (or below) a defined mass to be (un)eligible. Thus, everything BS sized or heavier is ineligible and suspect flagged? So your freighter is, too? (And if it's BS size and lightier, it make all T1/T2 industrial hulls suspect instead.)


No, seriously, something like that would either just be a massive grieffing source, or incredibly hard to implement (as in "almost impossible"). Now, stop trolling and move along.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Calanthas
Ninja Pixels
#8 - 2015-10-10 18:59:33 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

Define "high traffic."
Define "unrestricted passage."


Define "high traffic." = enough ships with a mass over 640k kg jumping through to justify "taking a look" to see why.

Define "unrestricted passage." = systems in high security space that would be unrestricted anyway, without the use of bumping, warp disruptors, scramblers, bubbles, etc.

ShahFluffers wrote:

Another core design tenant of EVE: the DEVs create tools for us players to use for / against each other... they do not directly administrate or control player behavior.


The structure would be a tool to help combat "bumping" which prevents freighter pilots from hauling. Suspect status would be applied if somebody was to interfere with that "tool" in high sec space. I'm not suggesting any player behavior "controlled".
Calanthas
Ninja Pixels
#9 - 2015-10-10 19:09:38 UTC
Nyalnara wrote:
First, how do the system guess if someone is actively trying to bump or if it is unintentional?


Likely during specific times of day in specific systems the structure would be "deployed" with a trigger for each ship jumping through. The freighters, with their mass, are pretty easy to spot. What Im suggesting would be a "status" applied to those ships and any interference would be a violation of status placed by the structure. Not to control players piloting the ships trying to interfere with passage - but possibly allowing other players to do that instead.

Nyalnara wrote:
Also, about that "eligible mass"...


"Eligible mass" would be specifically freighters (640k kg or greater), and it would be temporary.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2015-10-10 19:09:41 UTC
Calanthas wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:

Define "high traffic."
Define "unrestricted passage."


Define "high traffic." = enough ships with a mass over 640k kg jumping through to justify "taking a look" to see why.

Define "unrestricted passage." = systems in high security space that would be unrestricted anyway, without the use of bumping, warp disruptors, scramblers, bubbles, etc.

ShahFluffers wrote:

Another core design tenant of EVE: the DEVs create tools for us players to use for / against each other... they do not directly administrate or control player behavior.


The structure would be a tool to help combat "bumping" which prevents freighter pilots from hauling. Suspect status would be applied if somebody was to interfere with that "tool" in high sec space. I'm not suggesting any player behavior "controlled".

These things would be turned to slag within an hour of it being onlined and you would be under constant war Dec while you were in the habit of putting them up.
Calanthas
Ninja Pixels
#11 - 2015-10-10 19:17:58 UTC
I was actually trying to suggest a Concord structure, or CCP structure, but I can see why it would be a huge headache and a half to manage reliably.

The problem is players being allowed to "bump" somebody else's ships in general without suspect status.

Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2015-10-11 01:34:10 UTC
Calanthas wrote:
I was actually trying to suggest a Concord structure, or CCP structure, but I can see why it would be a huge headache and a half to manage reliably.

The problem is players being allowed to "bump" somebody else's ships in general without suspect status.

There are already several methods to keep your freighter from being bumped. I recommend you do a modicum of research to find out how, then put those methods into practice.

Additionally, as has already been stated, CCP is not in the habit of trying to directly control player behavior. Concord is meant to be punitive not preventitave.

Lastly, this thread has been reported for redundancy, as CCP has made it blatantly obvious that bumping is an accepted mechanic.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-10-11 03:47:24 UTC
There is a myth that freighters getting ganked somehow harms the economy. In reality this is both correct yet incorrect.

It is correct in the sense that its a massive isk infusion to the game each time a T1 freighter get ganked in the form of insurance. This is actually bad. Insurance is actually a significant factor in inflation.

It is incorrect in the sense that minus the above effect any item destroyed during a gank (50ish%) is permanently erased. This eases over supply and increases margins. In EVE this is a GREAT thing. It's also a form of wealth redistribution. Half your crap isnt destroyed.. its just moved back to the market to provide an isk transference from the purchaser to the ganker.

Logistical immunity of any shape or form is a terrible idea. In the long view it just allows rampant inflation and risk free gameplay. EVEs design is RISK/REWARD. Risk free is not part of the game design.

In short you would have considerably more success and add considerably more health to the games economy if you discussed ways to make ganking less of a kludged system and more of an actual process within the game. Let people be bad guys... let people be heros. Discuss and try to find mechanics that let both sides have their cake without making either task to easy.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-10-11 05:33:36 UTC
Calanthas wrote:
Is it possible for there to be a new structure that monitors traffic and perhaps make things riskier for gankers?




this is in game already. Look at map stats in game. Look at say ship or pods lost last hour or a timeframe that meets your needs.


Here is a hint....iif ts glowing flaring red it means lots of things have blown up. You have a hot system on route. DOn't like the heat plot new course don't even enter the kitchen.


You whine about bumping.....this is in place for hubs and stations in general. you are aware of the fact if bumping incures some penalty many visitors to Jita 4-4 would be yellow if not outlaw blinky red in seconds flat. And the jita node would crash or be in why even bother playing of levels of TIDI from conccorde responses. Watch the really fun vidoes of when people set up lots shuttles and pods in the undock and fired off aoe like smarty. Cool ass vids. You get to see the death of the say jita node as the concord swarms get that bad.

Knew a guy buddies with one poster of these vids. Fun times I hear. -10 or close enough in seconds flat. Many of his hits were the smarty hitting, but not killing, normal people in the undock. Normal meaning not his alts, friends (or their alts), used to seed the massive chain reaction of concrode response. Couldn't use his new found uber outlaw status for a few days ofc....ccp temp banned him for having his way with the node.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#15 - 2015-10-11 09:28:50 UTC
Considering how many freighters make it through gank systems unscathed we should be trying to make it easier to bump and gank freighters.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2015-10-11 16:01:15 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Considering how many freighters make it through gank systems unscathed we should be trying to make it easier to bump and gank freighters.

Obviously CCP disagrees with this assessment or it would be easier to bump and gank.

Back to OP.
We have ships piling up at random points because they cannot get "clearance" to travel through an area and this is supposed to be good for the game? How?

Why would CCP want to arbitrarily restrict passage through an area of space? what possible good comes to CCP for doing this?

-1 because of your restrictions based on mass which would always give priority to the largest ships unfairly restricting the passage of other players simply because they choose to fly smaller ships.
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-10-11 17:03:44 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Considering how many freighters make it through gank systems unscathed we should be trying to make it easier to bump and gank freighters.

Obviously CCP disagrees with this assessment or it would be easier to bump and gank.

~snipsnip~.


CCP has never sided with "immunity" pleas. The only thing CCP has moved against in the ganking community is ensuring it takes people. Arguably they are doing this to ensure gankers have to put forth enough isk to gank a target profitably but without the metrics they used to decide this its just a guess.

IE 20 catalysts=Good 1 hyperdunker=bad according to CCP. Personal opinions are, of course, personal.

admiral root
Red Galaxy
#18 - 2015-10-11 18:24:34 UTC
@OP - presumably you want highsec nerfed yet again because you're bad at the game. Please link the lossmail.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff

Mag's
Azn Empire
#19 - 2015-10-11 18:32:54 UTC
"Just one more nerf and it will be balanced."

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2015-10-11 18:37:37 UTC
Calanthas wrote:
I was actually trying to suggest a Concord structure, or CCP structure, but I can see why it would be a huge headache and a half to manage reliably.

The problem is players being allowed to "bump" somebody else's ships in general without suspect status.


Bumping isn't a problem, fly smart and never be bothered again.
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