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Absolutely no reason for me to join a corp?
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William Adoulin
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2015-10-07 04:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: William Adoulin
Teckos Pech wrote:
William Adoulin wrote:
Gregor Parud wrote:
If you choose to do something that doesn't require others and you're fine with that then there's no reason to join a corp. You will be "missing out" on lots of EVE stuff, exciting and hilarious stuff but that is a choice. Just don't start blaming the game if you get bored or run out of goals/ideas.


Understood, it just seems odd to me as a new player that the game is built to discourage me from joining a corp, so I wondered if I was missing something. Based on my investigation, it seems there's no tangible benefits and some very tangible cons in terms of in-game mechanics for me.



It isn't. It is you that is discouraging you from joining a corp. By joining a corp you open quite a few more options in the game than by trying to play solo in a Noob corp.


I haven't been playing the game for long, but I've noticed a lot of people disparaging those who stick in NPC corps and "carebear", as it seems to be called. My post was basically a summary of why the game's mechanics appear to motivate me against joining a player corp. Essentially, I have to make a decision: do better by myself, or join a corp for the social part of the game, in the process gimping my own personal goals (trading, etc.). The two can't co-exist.

Joining a corp would seem to be a good idea at first glance, no matter what stage of the game the player is at, but based on my analysis, it's not if you're not looking to PvP. That seems like a flaw to me, as I'm disincentivized to joining a corp while still in high sec if I just want to get to know other players.

Also, as I have no intention of using alts, once I join a null-sec corp I will forever be giving up the ability to safely fly in high sec due to war decs. That's no small decision either.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-10-07 04:34:17 UTC
Sure you can play solo nobody says you can not. But a corps you can do so many more. You can not think about that yet. You need to have the expertise to now that. Trust me or any other corp member yes iam out of my old corps so still i can say for sure. A corps its more fun. But solo can give you the trill (adrenaline rush you have never felt in a game before). So its up to you. I say don`t judge to fast about your decisions.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#43 - 2015-10-07 05:13:27 UTC
William Adoulin wrote:
..........so I wondered if I was missing something.



Yes you are missing something - The entire point of eve.

Eve is a social game - It's about having fun with friends/enemies.


All the stuff on your screen is just secondary.

Once you realize this - Then the real fun will begin.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2015-10-07 05:33:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
William Adoulin wrote:


Joining a corp would seem to be a good idea at first glance, no matter what stage of the game the player is at, but based on my analysis, it's not if you're not looking to PvP. That seems like a flaw to me, as I'm disincentivized to joining a corp while still in high sec if I just want to get to know other players.

.


That is not entirely true. Mining is far more effective in large fleets with an orca and fleet boosts. Higher level industrial stuff does need a POS. To make relaible money out of hauling or salvaging you are often better joining something like Red Frog for hauling or one of the salvage corps.

Note that GD is a cesspit of bored people most of whom rarely even actually play, if you want serious suggestions about actually useful highsec corps to join for trade and industry the place to post is the trade and industry forums - not in here.

Note there are a few highsec activities that tend to be distinctly solo activities, explorer. maverick industrialist, station trader and station scammer all come to mind.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-10-07 08:27:57 UTC
William Adoulin wrote:
I have to make a decision: do better by myself, or join a corp for the social part of the game, in the process gimping my own personal goals (trading, etc.). The two can't co-exist.

Joining a corp would seem to be a good idea at first glance, no matter what stage of the game the player is at, but based on my analysis, it's not if you're not looking to PvP. That seems like a flaw to me, as I'm disincentivized to joining a corp while still in high sec if I just want to get to know other players.


No, the point I was trying to make (I'm Gregor, cba to change login) is that for the play style you have chosen for yourself (solo trader) it makes little sense to join a corp. Would you choose a different play style like Industrial stuff, group mining, WH life, perhaps live in low sec, join 0.0 and many other things then it would make sense to find a good group for that. On top of that if you join a group of more experienced players you will learn from them and will quite possibly learn and do things you wouldn't have done on your own.

They will show you different play styles, angles, ideas and solutions and while not all/most may be valid to you, it does help you learn more about the game and perhaps find new and interesting things to do.
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#46 - 2015-10-07 08:37:20 UTC
William Adoulin wrote:
Hi all, first of all been playing this game for 10 days now and really enjoying it, mainly doing trading so far and making fits to fight off gankers. Honestly, tanking my trade ship against gankers is a lot of fun for me - I've already had one ganker fail and die in the attempt. However, I've been looking at the Corp part of the game and it seems there's absolutely no benefit for me to leave my starting NPC corp and join a player corp, and several significant cons.

Perceived benefits:

  • All of the hard benefits, such as refining, group mining bonuses, fleets, etc. don't apply to me as a trader. There's no shared benefits to trading with a group of players and it seems to me quite a number of risks such as pooling money/resources and potentially losing those.
  • The NPC corp tax doesn't affect me, as I'm not doing missions.
  • I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection
  • Not currently looking to do any PVP
  • I can still join a channel and talk in general/get advice without being part of a corp - in fact I'm already doing that.


Cons:

  • If I join a player corp I am now subject to declarations of war by anyone who feels like it, meaning I can no longer fly my routes and at least know Concord will blow someone up if they opt to attack me. (By the way - for game lore purposes, why wouldn't Concord come to the aid of a pacifist trader/miner corp who's declared on by pirates?)
  • I am also subjecting myself to the risks of joining that corp. I've read about scams where someone in the corp can attack me without impunity and steal my stuff. In addition, if they require my API to join (and most corps seem to) they can now read all my trading records and take my most profitable routes.


I initially had thought it'd be good to band together with some fellow traders for mutual benefit while I'm exploring the PVE part of the game (not ready to go into PVP yet) but it seems to me there are zero benefits and and significant negatives to doing so. Am I missing something or is the corp part of the game totally pointless for me right now? And if so, that seems kind of lame.

Oh, and not interested in making a PVP alt or something - 1 character is enough to manage. Smile


Sounds to me like you're "doing it right" so far. If you carry on with a rational and open-minded approach as you seem to be doing, you will likely do very well. Welcome to EVE!

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson
Storm Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-10-07 11:47:14 UTC
Thers lot of corperations that want hulers/traders.Playing this game solo most proffessions kan do that,you join a corp to get friends in game for a longer duration is the only reson to do so for many, thers a lott staying in NPC corperation cose the war decs but they miss out on the most importent thing in eve team work and the social aspect.your work is more gratefying if you have somwon to share it with,and this is a multiplayer game if you just like to trade solo thers actuly offline space game that offer that like X3 Reunion and you dont need to pay a sub then.P

Shit hapens,mowe on......Luky maby your good then......Playe as you like and not as others tell you to.....It dont hurt to be nice....
Oraac Ensor
#48 - 2015-10-07 12:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Oraac Ensor
Xylem Viliana wrote:
I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection

Wrong.

Concord are not there to protect you, they are there to deliver righteous justice for the acts commited. Highsec is not safe with concord and if you are under the impression it is please go onto Zkill and have a look at the number of kills in highsec. the majority are not due to wars, they are due to suicide ganking. which if you dont know it the method of sacrificing your own ship for the sole purpose of blowing up your opponent too. 100m tornado wiping a 1b hauler off the field for example, and a lot of those gankers dont do it for profit or stats. They do it cause they can and cause the want to.

I didnt read the rest of the post after "concord is my protection" you have a lot to learn still, but you will get there i hope

Of course Concord is protection - how can it not be?

There are plenty of players who will attack without hesitation in low- or nullsec who will not do so in highsec because they prefer not to be blown up by Concord. Concord is therefore protecting us against those players.
Paul Pohl
blue media poetry
#49 - 2015-10-08 01:34:11 UTC
William Adoulin wrote:

  • I am also subjecting myself to the risks of joining that corp. I've read about scams where someone in the corp can attack me without impunity and steal my stuff. In addition, if they require my API to join (and most corps seem to) they can now read all my trading records and take my most profitable routes.
    • [/list]


    As someone who has come back to the game, I can vouch for the horror stories you have heard

    However, stealing your profitable routes really is not an issue

    In answer to the question of why you would join a corp - or indeed start your own - it's not a matter of the game providing your with the incentive - as in the case of the mmos you cite - rather it is an issue of finding yourself in a position where it is to your advantage to seek the help of other players. This is not something that can be pre-defined.
    Don Aubaris
    #50 - 2015-10-08 04:10:04 UTC
    A player corps is a terrible thing in Eve. Certainly in high sec. And certainly if you do solo activities.

    If you join one, you are probably getting scammed by the officers. Even those you think you like.
    If you are in one and think this is not true, you are probably too dumb to understand how you are getting robbed.

    They control the tax rate, the trades, the shares, the 'goals'.... and it's basically impossible for a new ordinary member to have an overview. How do you know that their 'lower then NPC!' tax rate is reasonable compared to the costs of the corps? How do you know they don't trade corps goods to an alt at discount rates? And that while most require indeed a lot of information about you 'for the safety of the corps'...right...What?


    Of course you can have some friends and some group activities in a corps. But it makes more sense to start your own corps and then join an alliance. You still can get stuff organized if needed. Yet you and you alone are responsible for your financial management. You need an orca for a miner : you decide how much that's worth to you and make a deal. You need an escort? Find a trustworthy friend and pay him what you think it's worth. No need to be in the same corps. This is Eve, and there is always a chance he betrays you. But that has been your bad judgement then.

    If you think you need to join a corps to learn more about the game : join Eve Uni for a while or so.

    And even if your solo high sec corps, gets war-decced and you are not interested in it : just make sure you have an alt running the corps. Your main can drop from the corps and go back to a NPC corps for a while. Or go play another game till it's over.
    Z'krooh
    Doomheim
    #51 - 2015-10-08 18:54:53 UTC
    William Adoulin wrote:
    Hi all, first of all been playing this game for 10 days now and really enjoying it, mainly doing trading so far and making fits to fight off gankers. Honestly, tanking my trade ship against gankers is a lot of fun for me - I've already had one ganker fail and die in the attempt. However, I've been looking at the Corp part of the game and it seems there's absolutely no benefit for me to leave my starting NPC corp and join a player corp, and several significant cons.

    Perceived benefits:

    • All of the hard benefits, such as refining, group mining bonuses, fleets, etc. don't apply to me as a trader. There's no shared benefits to trading with a group of players and it seems to me quite a number of risks such as pooling money/resources and potentially losing those.
    • The NPC corp tax doesn't affect me, as I'm not doing missions.
    • I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection
    • Not currently looking to do any PVP
    • I can still join a channel and talk in general/get advice without being part of a corp - in fact I'm already doing that.


    Cons:

    • If I join a player corp I am now subject to declarations of war by anyone who feels like it, meaning I can no longer fly my routes and at least know Concord will blow someone up if they opt to attack me. (By the way - for game lore purposes, why wouldn't Concord come to the aid of a pacifist trader/miner corp who's declared on by pirates?)
    • I am also subjecting myself to the risks of joining that corp. I've read about scams where someone in the corp can attack me without impunity and steal my stuff. In addition, if they require my API to join (and most corps seem to) they can now read all my trading records and take my most profitable routes.


    I initially had thought it'd be good to band together with some fellow traders for mutual benefit while I'm exploring the PVE part of the game (not ready to go into PVP yet) but it seems to me there are zero benefits and and significant negatives to doing so. Am I missing something or is the corp part of the game totally pointless for me right now? And if so, that seems kind of lame.

    Oh, and not interested in making a PVP alt or something - 1 character is enough to manage. Smile
    You could make your life more fun by trading while at war, in lowsec or in nullsec.

    You can help your corporation by delivering the stuff that they need in their campaigns or what ever they do.

    Also you could do it just for the thrill.
    Bellatrix Invicta
    Doomheim
    #52 - 2015-10-08 19:03:36 UTC
    Oraac Ensor wrote:
    Xylem Viliana wrote:
    I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection

    Wrong.

    Concord are not there to protect you, they are there to deliver righteous justice for the acts commited. Highsec is not safe with concord and if you are under the impression it is please go onto Zkill and have a look at the number of kills in highsec. the majority are not due to wars, they are due to suicide ganking. which if you dont know it the method of sacrificing your own ship for the sole purpose of blowing up your opponent too. 100m tornado wiping a 1b hauler off the field for example, and a lot of those gankers dont do it for profit or stats. They do it cause they can and cause the want to.

    I didnt read the rest of the post after "concord is my protection" you have a lot to learn still, but you will get there i hope

    Of course Concord is protection - how can it not be?

    There are plenty of players who will attack without hesitation in low- or nullsec who will not do so in highsec because they prefer not to be blown up by Concord. Concord is therefore protecting us against those players.


    CONCORD punishes, they do not protect.

    If you think you've won, think again.

    The CODE always wins.
    William Adoulin
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #53 - 2015-10-08 20:39:11 UTC
    Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
    Oraac Ensor wrote:
    Xylem Viliana wrote:
    I don't need protection as I'm in highsec - Concord is my protection

    Wrong.

    Concord are not there to protect you, they are there to deliver righteous justice for the acts commited. Highsec is not safe with concord and if you are under the impression it is please go onto Zkill and have a look at the number of kills in highsec. the majority are not due to wars, they are due to suicide ganking. which if you dont know it the method of sacrificing your own ship for the sole purpose of blowing up your opponent too. 100m tornado wiping a 1b hauler off the field for example, and a lot of those gankers dont do it for profit or stats. They do it cause they can and cause the want to.

    I didnt read the rest of the post after "concord is my protection" you have a lot to learn still, but you will get there i hope

    Of course Concord is protection - how can it not be?

    There are plenty of players who will attack without hesitation in low- or nullsec who will not do so in highsec because they prefer not to be blown up by Concord. Concord is therefore protecting us against those players.


    CONCORD punishes, they do not protect.


    And the 100% guarantee of punishment most definitely has the effect of protection. People would gank everything in sight if they didn't have to worry about getting shot at by CONCORD. As I see it ganking in highsec is currently limited to three types of people:


    1. Gankers attacking poorly defended targets for profit (defense: tank your ship heavily).
    2. Griefers (defense: there's only so many of these people and they still prefer easy targets).
    3. War decs (defense: stay in an NPC corp).
    Val'Dore
    PlanetCorp InterStellar
    #54 - 2015-10-08 21:01:40 UTC
    I've been in an argument with someone in CAS in Rookie Chat, whom seems to be on a crusade to make staying in a newb corp seem like a good idea, specifically CAS. He'd argue with me that they do everything a player corp does without the drawbacks. Supposedly they even own POS in null and another in w-space, though I'm still not sure how that is even possible.

    Frankly, I think allowing players to stay in a newbie corp beyond 30 days only hurts the game in the long run, mainly because of these pseudovets that want everyone to be like them and stay in it.

    Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

    I invented Tiericide
    William Adoulin
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #55 - 2015-10-08 21:08:27 UTC
    Val'Dore wrote:
    I've been in an argument with someone in CAS in Rookie Chat, whom seems to be on a crusade to make staying in a newb corp seem like a good idea, specifically CAS. He'd argue with me that they do everything a player corp does without the drawbacks. Supposedly they even own POS in null and another in w-space, though I'm still not sure how that is even possible.

    Frankly, I think allowing players to stay in a newbie corp beyond 30 days only hurts the game in the long run, mainly because of these pseudovets that want everyone to be like them and stay in it.


    You see, I just don't understand this perspective. I've found no real counter to my argument that being in an NPC corp is a superior strategy other than "being in a player corp is more fun!". So why not just provide a more tangible benefit to being in a player corp? Rather than forcing people out of NPC corps, why not better motivate them to join player corps?

    It would seem to me that it would be to CCP's benefit to have players more engaged with others via participating in a player corp. This would probably improve player retention. So why are there not more benefits to doing so?
    Val'Dore
    PlanetCorp InterStellar
    #56 - 2015-10-08 21:14:27 UTC
    William Adoulin wrote:
    Val'Dore wrote:
    I've been in an argument with someone in CAS in Rookie Chat, whom seems to be on a crusade to make staying in a newb corp seem like a good idea, specifically CAS. He'd argue with me that they do everything a player corp does without the drawbacks. Supposedly they even own POS in null and another in w-space, though I'm still not sure how that is even possible.

    Frankly, I think allowing players to stay in a newbie corp beyond 30 days only hurts the game in the long run, mainly because of these pseudovets that want everyone to be like them and stay in it.


    You see, I just don't understand this perspective. I've found no real counter to my argument that being in an NPC corp is a superior strategy other than "being in a player corp is more fun!". So why not just provide a more tangible benefit to being in a player corp? Rather than forcing people out of NPC corps, why not better motivate them to join player corps?

    It would seem to me that it would be to CCP's benefit to have players more engaged with others via participating in a player corp. This would probably improve player retention. So why are there not more benefits to doing so?


    It's not a lack of benefits of joining a player corp, its a lack of drawbacks to staying in an npc corp. Player corps already have all the benefits they could want. You can run a space empire with one.

    Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

    I invented Tiericide
    Paul Pohl
    blue media poetry
    #57 - 2015-10-08 22:17:45 UTC
    William Adoulin wrote:
    [quote=Val'Dore]
    You see, I just don't understand this perspective. I've found no real counter to my argument that being in an NPC corp is a superior strategy other than "being in a player corp is more fun!". So why not just provide a more tangible benefit to being in a player corp? Rather than forcing people out of NPC corps, why not better motivate them to join player corps?

    It would seem to me that it would be to CCP's benefit to have players more engaged with others via participating in a player corp. This would probably improve player retention. So why are there not more benefits to doing so?


    the game does this in a number of ways

    there are very real tangible benefits to being in a player corp - the problem is that they are not to be found in the stats of ships or in skill training tree

    as I say, when the time comes - in your story or plan - you will see them, and then it is an issue of finding the right people to make the corp - if you are setting up your own - or in finding the right corp
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