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Out of Pod Experience

 
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A message to the developers.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#41 - 2015-10-05 20:25:46 UTC
Eternal Bob wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Not to people who actually like it.


There will always be a minority of strange folk who find mining fun and who enjoy being kicked in the balls.

... or those of us smart enough to mine and avoid the abuse.

Mining Safely
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2015-10-05 20:26:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ceryph Archai wrote:
Suicide ganking in hisec isn't punished enough when you have a group of Catalysts that can harass a freighter for over an hour and there is literally nothing that the freighter pilot can do.
In other words, suicide ganking is punished enough.

Not only are there plenty of things the pilot can do, bumping does not in any way bypass or alter any mechanics. Bumping does not disable warping; it does not alter any stats, attributes, or abilities on the targeted ship; above all, it does not violate any non-encoded rules of the game, such as the rule against harassment. So no, it is not ludicrous that CCP says it is valid: there is nothing to even remotely suggest that it wouldn't be.

Quote:
Or the broken WarDec system that PIRAT abuses so they can take a **** on people who are moving goods around because they don't want to get into real PvP where they could more likely be at a disadvantage.
You realise that wardeccing puts you at possible the most disadvantage imaginable for the attacker, yes? If they wanted to minimise the disadvantage, the wardec system would be the last place to look.

Quote:
While there is an underlying philosophy of everything is PvP, the reason HiSec and CONCORD exists is to reduce the amount of douche-baggery done to people who aren't too keen on being on the receiving end.
No. None of that is the purpose of highsec. In fact, there is absolutely nothing about highsec or CONCORD that even remotely begins to address that behaviour. Highsec exists to play on the human tendency towards being a cheap bastard and not wanting to waste your stuff over nothing. Sometimes, that gamble pays off; sometimes it does not; sometimes you decide to skew the probabilities of the gamble so massively in the opponent's favour that it would be really stupid of him not to attack you.

It is simply a different kind of gamble than what other parts of space are designed to offer. Choosing to take part in it is completely unrelated to how much of a douche-bag you are, irrespective on which side of the conflict you're on.
Ceryph Archai
Sukebe Corporation
#43 - 2015-10-05 20:35:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ceryph Archai
Tippia wrote:
In other words, suicide ganking is punished enough.

Not only are there plenty of things the pilot can do, bumping does not in any way bypass or alter any mechanics. Bumping does not disable warping; it does not alter any stats, attributes, or abilities on the targeted ship; above all, it does not violate any non-encoded rules of the game, such as the rule against harassment. So no, it is not ludicrous that CCP says it is valid: there is nothing to even remotely suggest that it wouldn't be.
I get this feeling you are exaggerating the word "plenty". Bumping keeps you from aligning. In any type of industrial ship, what can you do to stop the one thing to do to get away from the bumpers? Name one thing.

Tippia wrote:
You realise that wardeccing puts you at possible the most disadvantage imaginable for the attacker, yes? If they wanted to minimise the disadvantage, the wardec system would be the last place to look.
Riight, that's why on my mining alt, the previous corporation I was in had all the killboard kills when PIRAT, Marmite, Allibaitors, etc, were WarDeccing simply for the fun of it and this corp wasn't setup for combat. Your point falls on deaf ears because I've seen otherwise.

Tippia wrote:
No. None of that is the purpose of highsec. In fact, there is absolutely nothing about highsec or CONCORD that even remotely begins to address that behaviour. Highsec exists to play on the human tendency towards being a cheap bastard and not wanting to waste your stuff over nothing. Sometimes, that gamble pays off; sometimes it does not; sometimes you decide to skew the probabilities of the gamble so massively in the opponent's favour that it would be really stupid of him not to attack you.

It is simply a different kind of gamble than what other parts of space are designed to offer. Choosing to take part in it is completely unrelated to how much of a douche-bag you are, irrespective on which side of the conflict you're on.
Then that means there is no need for ethics, but the mere fact that there is CONCORD and gate guns tends toward meaning there is some sort of law to uphold and in any civilized world, that would keep your typical person from being an ass. If that wasn't the intention of CONCORD and HiSec, to emulate law and order, then there was no need for them in the first place and should have never been in the game.
Paranoid Loyd
#44 - 2015-10-05 20:43:47 UTC
A new contender steps into the ring.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#45 - 2015-10-05 20:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ceryph Archai wrote:
I get this feeling you are exaggerating the word "plenty".
Far less an exaggeration than saying that there is “literally nothing” the freighter pilot can do. Given your very generous limitation of “any type of industrial ship”, one thing you can do is jump out. By the way, bumping does not keep you from aligning — that's the fundamental flaw of the entire idea that bumping can't be countered.

Quote:
Riight, that's why on my mining alt, the previous corporation I was in had all the killboard kills when PIRAT, Marmite, Allibaitors, etc, were WarDeccing simply for the fun of it and this corp wasn't setup for combat.
No, that was because you chose not to push your advantage.

Quote:
Then that means there is no need for ethics
Correct. Of course, that has nothing to do with CONCORD, but is rather inherent in the concept of “the magic circle” that exist with all games.

For their part, CONCORD and gate guns are there to enforce the costs that create that gamble. They very specifically do not emulate law and order — other entities are around to do that (and, analogous to law enforcement, they're fairly easy to avoid, evade, or just outright beat). This is consistent with how EVE is supposed to evoke a dark, dangerous world where pseudo-immortal beings exist outside and above the rules that regulate mere humans.
Marsha Mallow
#46 - 2015-10-05 20:55:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Marsha Mallow
Amanda Guido wrote:
The game itself is not awful. The fundamental aspects of the game have a lot of potential. However, there are too many mechanics in place that allow the community to grief the hell out of players that don't stand a chance. The game literally caters to bullies and cowards. It punishes you for fighting honorably, and enhances the ability to fight like hyenas.

Actually it punishes PTW imports from other games who try to impose it here. And yes, I am looking at your killboard, right now. And no, laughing at it is not griefing. Those recent Hyperions are retardedly overpimped for someone with such a small amount of experience, and they are *not* appropriate solo boats for people with limited experience. If you want to get better, join a player group and take some advice - or if you really want to solo, start off with smaller/cheaper t1 frigs/cruisers and build up some basic skills. It is not griefing or dishonourable for players to shoot someone in their home system - next time be more aware of who the locals are (Old Man Star is notorious). 10b in losses in 5 days isn't a broken game. Scale back and start listening to player advice. Edit: some linkies here & here & here - plenty more than that available.

And for what it's worth, after being splattered during the tutorials by NPCs because I hadn't seriously played a game since PacMan and Space Invaders, I rolled I think a third alt, undocked and starting shooting other rookies. In a rookie ship. For the explosions. Got concorded, docked, rinsed and repeated until my standings on that alt were trashed. Was quite entertaining tbh, the other rookie seemed to enjoy it too. On my second (or maybe first, fuzzy on this) alt I undocked and saw a can marked FREE STUFF and scurried over to it, and robbed it shamelessly. Then got an aggro timer - which with sound effects on made me jump out of my skin. Spent the next 2 days running around cringing - in all honesty it was a bit disappointing no-one showed up. But still more fun than being squished by NPCs.

We're not all spineless themepark grinders who just want to get the best gear and flounce about smugging at other nerds. You can do that in any number of MMOs.

@ OP - everyone loses ships. For early PVP training any number of player groups (E-Uni, Brave, Test, RVB, FW) can help with shipfits and getting started. But losing is part of the learning curve, and if you take it too hard, you're doing it wrong. Also, you and your friend can practice on the test server (Sisi) where everything is seeded at 100 ISK and there are FFA areas set up.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Austneal
Nero Fazione
#47 - 2015-10-05 21:11:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
By the way, bumping does not keep you from aligning — that's the fundamental flaw of the entire idea that bumping can't be countered.


Would you mind explaining this a bit?

I can see how an industrial ship might be able to cloak + mwd to avoid the bumper, but what options would a freighter pilot have? Perhaps having a friend tag along to web you into warp?

Not that I'm defending any particular point of view, I'm just curious if you have any more creative counters :P
Blood Thorn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2015-10-05 21:23:14 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
You are correct. Welcome to Eve, a game which caters to cowards and sick online bullies. If you have not noticed Eve has the worst internet community ever in any MMO ever made. They will flame you, call you names, grief you into unsubbing and then send you an ingame mail to rub it in.

It is one of many reasons Eve is on the decline. It simply can't retain new subs, and the old vets are getting tired and leaving because CCP is slowly making changes away from the current system. The meta behind pvp is almost entirely about abusing mechanics or blob warfare; who can bring more guys and fight the dirtiest. But when people stick to high sec because of this flawed system, they are called care bears and flamed.

CCP knows this, but when they try to make any changes, the griefers and bullies cry and burn the Jita statue, chanting "don"t take away my sandbox." It is a catch 22 really.

If you don't believe me, just watch and read the replies I get to this post. Grab your popcorn and enjoy!


People unsub from EvE for the same reasons they unsub from other games. For what-ever reason, they no longer find the game fun. EvE has been around for what, 10+ years? How many other games out there that have been around for as long is increasing membership?

Zero

I've re-upped after a 2 year absence. Yes, I see some things are still around that I find frustrating. When that frustration exceeds my fun, I'll re-evaluate whether to keep shelling out money for my accounts. Just like I do for a host of other games. At some point, I'll take a break, probably to play the next hot flavor of the month game.

And I'll eventually come back.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#49 - 2015-10-05 21:28:12 UTC
who invests their time in a game these days without checking it out on youtube and seeing what people think of it before you drop some cash on it. ya know,, see how game play works, what to expect in game and so on.

so you invest cash and time then what?

it doesn't go as planned so you jump on here and have a whine because shites not getting handed to you on a silver plate.

because someone tried to counter your attack? what? Roll should they just sit there and let you kill them and not use what they've worked hard for in game? are you insane lol

stuff wasn't instant enough for you? hahahaha please Roll

it's a shame the game isn't for you. but get real. such a self entitled little shite hahahahahaRoll

all i read was wah wah wah i want it my way, wah wah wah it's toooooooooooooo hard. wah wah wah i quit.
oh and this was for the devs so i posted it public cuz the players are going to give a shite..... wrong. Roll

best fo luck.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2015-10-05 21:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Austneal wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the way, bumping does not keep you from aligning — that's the fundamental flaw of the entire idea that bumping can't be countered.

Would you mind explaining this a bit?
The only thing that restricts you from warping is if your ship warp strength is reduced to zero or less. Bumping does not do this. Bumping alters your movement vector and most likely puts you at a decent speed in that direction. This means you are already aligned — perhaps not to what you want to be aligned to, but you are aligned.

Quote:
I can see how an industrial ship might be able to cloak + mwd to avoid the bumper, but what options would a freighter pilot have? Perhaps having a friend tag along to web you into warp?
You can find something in your new direction of travel to warp to. You can place something (or someone) in the new direction of travel to warp to. You can web-warp. You can counter-bump. You can counter-gank. You can nullify the DPS. You can sneak-tank. You can fit for agility. You can show up followed by a ship that even suggests you're doing any of the above. You can take the road less travelled. You can bypass the regular kill zones with more capable ships.

You can fly not AFK.

…and if you think for a little while, you can probably come up with more strategies and tactics than these obvious ones.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#51 - 2015-10-05 21:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Austneal wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the way, bumping does not keep you from aligning — that's the fundamental flaw of the entire idea that bumping can't be countered.


Would you mind explaining this a bit?

I can see how an industrial ship might be able to cloak + mwd to avoid the bumper, but what options would a freighter pilot have? Perhaps having a friend tag along to web you into warp?

Not that I'm defending any particular point of view, I'm just curious if you have any more creative counters :P

Aligning is a vector, not a ship facing.

So as long as you are moving >75% of your ship speed, you are aligned to whatever direction your ship happens to be moving.

The issue for Freighters is they often continue to try to align in a direction they are not moving.

Get a ship out in front of the bump or find a celestial in the direction of movement and the freighter will be able to instantly warp.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-10-05 21:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Amanda Guido
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
The game itself is not awful. The fundamental aspects of the game have a lot of potential. However, there are too many mechanics in place that allow the community to grief the hell out of players that don't stand a chance. The game literally caters to bullies and cowards. It punishes you for fighting honorably, and enhances the ability to fight like hyenas.

Actually it punishes PTW imports from other games who try to impose it here. And yes, I am looking at your killboard, right now. And no, laughing at it is not griefing. Those recent Hyperions are retardedly overpimped for someone with such a small amount of experience, and they are *not* appropriate solo boats for people with limited experience. If you want to get better, join a player group and take some advice - or if you really want to solo, start off with smaller/cheaper t1 frigs/cruisers and build up some basic skills. It is not griefing or dishonourable for players to shoot someone in their home system - next time be more aware of who the locals are (Old Man Star is notorious). 10b in losses in 5 days isn't a broken game. Scale back and start listening to player advice. Edit: some linkies here & here & here - plenty more than that available.

And for what it's worth, after being splattered during the tutorials by NPCs because I hadn't seriously played a game since PacMan and Space Invaders, I rolled I think a third alt, undocked and starting shooting other rookies. In a rookie ship. For the explosions. Got concorded, docked, rinsed and repeated until my standings on that alt were trashed. Was quite entertaining tbh, the other rookie seemed to enjoy it too. On my second (or maybe first, fuzzy on this) alt I undocked and saw a can marked FREE STUFF and scurried over to it, and robbed it shamelessly. Then got an aggro timer - which with sound effects on made me jump out of my skin. Spent the next 2 days running around cringing - in all honesty it was a bit disappointing no-one showed up. But still more fun than being squished by NPCs.

We're not all spineless themepark grinders who just want to get the best gear and flounce about smugging at other nerds. You can do that in any number of MMOs.

@ OP - everyone loses ships. For early PVP training any number of player groups (E-Uni, Brave, Test, RVB, FW) can help with shipfits and getting started. But losing is part of the learning curve, and if you take it too hard, you're doing it wrong. Also, you and your friend can practice on the test server (Sisi) where everything is seeded at 100 ISK and there are FFA areas set up.


LOL limited experience. I will tell you the same thing I tell every other fool who tells me I have limited experience, 1v1? But I doubt u will accept, asshats like you never do. There is nothing wrong with that fit. It has everything needed to solo. Tell me, how would you fit it differently for solo?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#53 - 2015-10-05 21:55:02 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
LOL limited experience. I will tell you the same thing I tell every other fool who tells me I have limited experience, 1v1? But I doubt u will accept, asshats like you never do.

I'm fairly certain Marsha lives just 3 jumps from Villore.

You should go visit her in Aeschee.
Amanda Guido
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-10-05 21:55:30 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
LOL limited experience. I will tell you the same thing I tell every other fool who tells me I have limited experience, 1v1? But I doubt u will accept, asshats like you never do.

I'm fairly certain Marsha lives just 3 jumps from Villore.

You should go visit her in Aeschee.


Would be happy to
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#55 - 2015-10-05 21:56:54 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Amanda Guido wrote:
LOL limited experience. I will tell you the same thing I tell every other fool who tells me I have limited experience, 1v1? But I doubt u will accept, asshats like you never do.

I'm fairly certain Marsha lives just 3 jumps from Villore.

You should go visit her in Aeschee.


Would be happy to

Actually I just checked her profile and she seems to have left Shadow Cartel now, so probably not in Aeschee.

My bad.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#56 - 2015-10-05 22:01:27 UTC
EvE Players are [like] Libertarians, we all define it differently and then argue with each other about who is actually the real thing.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Marsha Mallow
#57 - 2015-10-05 22:55:12 UTC
Amanda Guido wrote:
LOL limited experience. I will tell you the same thing I tell every other fool who tells me I have limited experience, 1v1? But I doubt u will accept, asshats like you never do. There is nothing wrong with that fit. It has everything needed to solo. Tell me, how would you fit it differently for solo?

My version of 1v1 may be slightly different to yours, and it'll last forever. But since you asked so nicely, OK!

Scipio Artelius wrote:
Actually I just checked her profile and she seems to have left Shadow Cartel now, so probably not in Aeschee.

My bad.

Yeh PC isn't liking the client atm, rebuilding it soon. Corpies made me fuel POS so I'm ignoring them. For a decade or so. Just idling atm seeing what's going on generally. Final year at uni so might sit this one out, not sure yet. It's easy enough to read intermittently whilst studying but a pain to do with the client up on a single screen.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#58 - 2015-10-05 23:06:21 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Austneal wrote:
Tippia wrote:
By the way, bumping does not keep you from aligning — that's the fundamental flaw of the entire idea that bumping can't be countered.


Would you mind explaining this a bit?

I can see how an industrial ship might be able to cloak + mwd to avoid the bumper, but what options would a freighter pilot have? Perhaps having a friend tag along to web you into warp?

Not that I'm defending any particular point of view, I'm just curious if you have any more creative counters :P

Aligning is a vector, not a ship facing.

So as long as you are moving >75% of your ship speed, you are aligned to whatever direction your ship happens to be moving.

The issue for Freighters is they often continue to try to align in a direction they are not moving.

Get a ship out in front of the bump or find a celestial in the direction of movement and the freighter will be able to instantly warp.



most people tend to panic when being bumped. i know i have a time or to. but i've also done the above, and it works great

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#59 - 2015-10-06 00:39:40 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:


So as long as you are moving >75% of your ship speed, you are aligned to whatever direction your ship happens to be moving.

This isn't quite accurate.
I believe it's between 75% & 100%, maybe 125% of your ships max velocity, not 100% sure on the margin. If you are bumped at too high a velocity your ship will be unable to warp until it slows down enough. Which takes a long time for cap ships.
d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-10-06 01:05:21 UTC
10+ years reading posts like this.

EVE isn't a easy game or safe game. Can't handle losing your ship, don't play.

That's what makes this game amazing. Try the test server where everything cost 100isk. After a few hours you will get bored at how worthless and meaningless it all is on the test server.

Bunch of cry babies that can't handle a video game... Good luck with life!!!

Been around since the beginning.