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So... how would you nerf T3's ?

Author
Valacus
Streets of Fire
#101 - 2015-10-05 04:12:32 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:
Valacus wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Valacus wrote:
They're the worst ship introduction CCP has launched.


You just missed pre-TE nerf Talos. Now that thing was stupid.


It was prenerf Tornado long before it was prenerf Talos, because Tier 3 BCs were released back when Winmatar was still Winmatar. And even non-AoE DD titans were OP because people would just hook them up with remote tracking links and one shot BCs and up with their guns. They ended up changing titans so they practically can't fight subcaps at all to make them work.

Back on the subject at hand, I think all t3 ships should be nerfed to t1 resistances. That'd go leaps and bounds to knocking them off Cloud 9. Now they can't be micro-battleships and micro-cruisers.


How about nerfing T2 / Hacs ? Lets give them T1 resistances ! Cause it is overpowered to have t2 resistances !

Or another idea, lets nerf all ships and fly ibises ! Then everyone would be equal !


Funny you should say that, given that T3 cruisers outclass T2 HACs in every way, shape, and form to the point where you rarely see any of them anymore, save maybe the Cerb(because the Navy Caracal sucks). T3 destroyers made T2 AFs obsolete. You're really crying over T2s when nerfing T3s might actually bring them back?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#102 - 2015-10-05 09:07:38 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
The whole small ship meta needs to be taken care of right now. I'm talking about all the ships that use small sized weapons, including T3Ds.

T3Ds cost significantly less than most pirate faction frigates, yet are superior to them in every practical sense. Something needs to happen here, not sure what, maybe it's an increase in T3D production costs, or a nerf or whatever, but I don't think it can stay this way.

The pirate faction frigate themselves must be looked at yet again. Garmur and Astero are fine. Garmur isn't OP, links are OP and Garmur works really well with them (get rid of links pls). Worm is fine (maybe a bit OP, not sure on that). Cruor needs to be overhauled. Too much potential utility and not enough actual viability. Not great for solo and there are better things to use in gangs and fleets. Unfortunate but true. Also whoever thought of putting a 5m3 drone bay on the Cruor must have done that as a cruel joke. That's just horrible. Succubus, Dramiel and Daredevil are a little overshadowed by the other ones but they're still good. IMO they should be buffed ever so slightly but hey, whatever.

Assault ships should be faster than T3Ds but they are actually slower. Boom nailed it.


That's power creep and a very bad thing.

The problem is t3d, you nerf the 4 problem ships not buff the few dozen that were well balanced before t3d arrived.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#103 - 2015-10-05 14:34:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:
The whole small ship meta needs to be taken care of right now. I'm talking about all the ships that use small sized weapons, including T3Ds.

T3Ds cost significantly less than most pirate faction frigates, yet are superior to them in every practical sense. Something needs to happen here, not sure what, maybe it's an increase in T3D production costs, or a nerf or whatever, but I don't think it can stay this way.

The pirate faction frigate themselves must be looked at yet again. Garmur and Astero are fine. Garmur isn't OP, links are OP and Garmur works really well with them (get rid of links pls). Worm is fine (maybe a bit OP, not sure on that). Cruor needs to be overhauled. Too much potential utility and not enough actual viability. Not great for solo and there are better things to use in gangs and fleets. Unfortunate but true. Also whoever thought of putting a 5m3 drone bay on the Cruor must have done that as a cruel joke. That's just horrible. Succubus, Dramiel and Daredevil are a little overshadowed by the other ones but they're still good. IMO they should be buffed ever so slightly but hey, whatever.

Assault ships should be faster than T3Ds but they are actually slower. Boom nailed it.


That's power creep and a very bad thing.

The problem is t3d, you nerf the 4 problem ships not buff the few dozen that were well balanced before t3d arrived.

It's not power creep brah. The Cruor needs to be re-worked, period, regardless of T3Ds. Succubus Dramiel and Daredevil suggestion was because I think they should be "ever so slightly buffed" as I said so they are more comparable with Astero, Garmur, and Worm. Admittedly a lot of people think those ships should be nerfed because they're OP but I really don't think so, I think for their price and the fact they are pirate frigates they are pretty much balanced where they should be. But in the case of the Garmur it benefits greatly from links, but that's because links are broken and probably going to be fixed some time soon, so you can't nerf the Garmur because of that.

I also said Assault Ships should be faster than T3Ds but that also does not qualify as power creep because while it can be accomplished by buffing the AF, it can also be accomplished by nerfing the T3Ds. Or a combination of both of those options, etc.

So the 1 ship I said really needs a buff is the Cruor. And it really does. Succubus Dramiel and Daredevil not so much but I think they should be, even if only very slightly. If you disagree that's fine but I don't think my suggestion is power creep.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#104 - 2015-10-05 17:28:31 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:

It's not power creep brah. The Cruor needs to be re-worked, period, regardless of T3Ds. Succubus Dramiel and Daredevil suggestion was because I think they should be "ever so slightly buffed" as I said so they are more comparable with Astero, Garmur, and Worm. Admittedly a lot of people think those ships should be nerfed because they're OP but I really don't think so, I think for their price and the fact they are pirate frigates they are pretty much balanced where they should be. But in the case of the Garmur it benefits greatly from links, but that's because links are broken and probably going to be fixed some time soon, so you can't nerf the Garmur because of that.

I also said Assault Ships should be faster than T3Ds but that also does not qualify as power creep because while it can be accomplished by buffing the AF, it can also be accomplished by nerfing the T3Ds. Or a combination of both of those options, etc.

So the 1 ship I said really needs a buff is the Cruor. And it really does. Succubus Dramiel and Daredevil not so much but I think they should be, even if only very slightly. If you disagree that's fine but I don't think my suggestion is power creep.


All of what you said is power creep because you are buffing lots of ships to match the few overpowered ones.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2015-10-05 18:20:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:

It's not power creep brah. The Cruor needs to be re-worked, period, regardless of T3Ds. Succubus Dramiel and Daredevil suggestion was because I think they should be "ever so slightly buffed" as I said so they are more comparable with Astero, Garmur, and Worm. Admittedly a lot of people think those ships should be nerfed because they're OP but I really don't think so, I think for their price and the fact they are pirate frigates they are pretty much balanced where they should be. But in the case of the Garmur it benefits greatly from links, but that's because links are broken and probably going to be fixed some time soon, so you can't nerf the Garmur because of that.

I also said Assault Ships should be faster than T3Ds but that also does not qualify as power creep because while it can be accomplished by buffing the AF, it can also be accomplished by nerfing the T3Ds. Or a combination of both of those options, etc.

So the 1 ship I said really needs a buff is the Cruor. And it really does. Succubus Dramiel and Daredevil not so much but I think they should be, even if only very slightly. If you disagree that's fine but I don't think my suggestion is power creep.


All of what you said is power creep because you are buffing lots of ships to match the few overpowered ones.


Its not power creep, we just have to buff most cruisers to be reliable against these smaller ships then buff BC so the cruisers dont overshadow them so much and after that we are left with BS that need a slight buff so the BCs dont overshadow them again!
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#106 - 2015-10-05 21:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
Quote:
All of what you said is power creep because you are buffing lots of ships to match the few overpowered ones.


Four ships isn't a lot, and three of them I said should just get a SMALL buff, nothing big.

Cruor needs an overhaul, otherwise CCP just doesn't care about game balance.

Astero, Garmur and Worm are not even overpowered, they're just what all the other pirate frigates should have been. If the Worm got nerfed it would just be a glorified assault frigate. The other ones just need to get closer to that level. If that's power creep, then **** it, I vote for power creep
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#107 - 2015-10-06 11:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Knuckles
Cruor... all right it needs some work, but Daredevil Succubus and Dram are ******* great ships, anyone saying otherwise is doing them wrong, there's no way around it really

Astero i don't really see as OP tbh, Garmur and Worm yeah they could use a lil bit of a nerf, nothing major tho imo, not even all that sure about the Worm, pleny of ways to skin that cat
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#108 - 2015-10-06 16:55:22 UTC
Daredevil is fine I guess. Succubus and Dramiel, yes they are definitely good ships as they are, but I can't help but feel that they are not quite as good as they should be for the class of ship they are and their price. I envision a CPU and slight PG boost for the Dramiel, to bring it closer to the fitting space of the Firetail, and a higher percentage bonus to AB velocity for the Succubus, that way that bonus is actually really meaningful without having to pimp it out and use links and snakes.

Astero is just a plain great ship, what really sets it apart is the cloaking ability. It's a wonderful solo alternative to the Sentinel, which is another great ship. (BTW Sentinel should have a full flight of drones, not just 4)

If the Garmur gets nerfed it would take a double hit once links get fixed. At that point it would go from best frigate in the game to slightly better Condor, depending on how bad they screw it. It should be left as it is. It's a great ship but it's easy to counter, and once links get fixed (which is GOING to happen lol) it's not going to be nearly as terrifying as it is right now.

Worm might have a bit too much of a damage / range / speed / tank ratio, but it's hard to say. I think it's fine the way it is.

Not sure what to do about T3Ds. They were a terrible idea in the first place, but that's irrelevant now. Definitely think their price should go up to at least the level of the pirate frigs, but I don't know how price manipulation works in this game so whatever. Maybe a small T3D nerf combined with price increase is the way to go.
Arcos Vandymion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#109 - 2015-10-06 17:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Arcos Vandymion
Seeing how this still hasn't died (as thread) and I'm not quite sober here's what I'd give a spin on a test server just to see how it goes.



T3D:
Cut down the boni of the modes to values eve players are generally used to - that is multiples of 5*(n*2.5). The first 5 obviously beeing the skill level which, since the fat bonia re in mode boni shortens to 12.5n.

Additional bonuses are available while one of three Tactical Destroyer Modes are active. Modes may be switched no more than once every 10 seconds.
Defense Mode
  • 33.3% bonus to all armor resistances -> 25% (1)
  • 33.3% reduction in ship signature radius -> 25%
etc.

(1) Not even the bastion module - tank module extraordinaire - that makes you a sitting duck gives that ridiculous resistances. Serious WTF right there

It's still a pretty powerful and most importantly versatile set of boni.



T3Cs
Cut some slots/PG/CPU/Drones from subs and add them to the base hull. This creates a baseline for all of them making some more viable which could (potentially - hope allways dies last) promote build diversity. As an example you could add 25m³ dronebay and 25mbit bandwidth to all hulls. As there is a baseline of DPS it should be easier to finetune some down and some up. Cut the weapon DPS by systems that just got more backup (pure weapon systems mainly, like the Liquid Crystal Magnifiers) by about a full set of Acolytes or Hornets - thus the damage increases when you have a full flight of Hobs (but only barely) and if you decide to take EC-300s you rightly loose competitive DPS for more versatility.
To be honest I never understood why the ships that were created to be THE swiss army knife/leatherman/omnigel-er-tool-of-your-choice of spaceships didn't all have THE most versatile weapon system of the cluster as a baseline equipment.

Do something along those lines for the other subs as well (transferring more of the bonus into a baseline for the hull). It decreases the total variance but we all know that hulls can be fit in this many ways for this many uses. Another side effect of a decrease in total variance would probably be that they aren't as specialised anymore allowing their specialised cousins, the T2 ships, to stand out more IN THAT PARTICULAR USE CASE (though I do love me utility over specialisation).



/drunkenramblings
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#110 - 2015-10-07 10:01:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Garrett Osinov
As I previously said, ppl are whining that T3 destroyers should be nerfed, but those ppl never flown T3 destroyers. So lets talk about some numbers. And typical fleet setups of Svipul. No officers mods used by EFT warriors, just T2 stuff...

This is the fit some alliances use. Not that expensive, around 70-80 mils delivered to 0.0

[Svipul]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Now the numbers. With all maxed skills it does 315DPS !!!! GUYS think about it 315 amazing DPS (obviously thats hell of a lot and this needs to be nerfed) at amazing 11.3 km (wicked range), ok it has another 10 km of falloff, but hey EFT warriors, I hope you know, that in falloff you loose a lot of DPS. And at amazing 20 km you might endup with 200 DPS. Thats a lot, for sure. And thats with all gunnery and tactical dest skills to lvl5 !

Now lets load a long range ammo, the Tremor. With long range ammo it has 40 km range + 10 km falloff (nowhere near the range of Cormorant, t1 destroyer worth 1.5 mil) and it does incredible 183 DPS.

Now lets talk about tank. This fit has got amazing tank. If you overheat your invul it has 16k hp. Definetly this is overpowered for something what cost 80 mils (double the price of a caracal) or 4 times more then a cormorant (obviously with fit and t2 rigs). Last night got killed in one valley by a fleet of cerbs / caracals. Remote reps couldn't save me, cause I was already in a pod.

Now lets look at the Cormorant. With fit it cost 20 mils (150 guns, sebos, mwd, 2 damage mods and rigs). It doesnt have any tank, but it cost 20 mils (not 80).

Numbers:
antimatter 266 DPS at 28.5 k + 7.5 k of falloff
spike 154 dps at 103 k range + 7.5 falloff

Do you realy think now that Svipul should be nerfed ?
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2015-10-07 10:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Garrett Osinov wrote:
As I previously said, ppl are whining that T3 destroyers should be nerfed, but those ppl never flown T3 destroyers. So lets talk about some numbers. And typical fleet setups of Svipul. No officers mods used by EFT warriors, just T2 stuff...

This is the fit some alliances use. Not that expensive, around 70-80 mils delivered to 0.0

[Svipul]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Now the numbers. With all maxed skills it does 275 DPS !!!! GUYS think about it 275 amazing DPS (obviously thats hell of a lot and this needs to be nerfed) at amazing 11.3 km (wicked range), ok it has another 10 km of falloff, but hey EFT warriors, I hope you know, that in falloff you loose a lot of DPS. And at amazing 20 km you might endup with 200 DPS. Thats a lot, for sure.

Now lets load a long range ammo, the Tremor. With long range ammo it has 40 km range + 10 km falloff (nowhere near the range of Cormorant, t1 destroyer worth 1.5 mil) and it does incredible 183 DPS.

Now lets talk about tank. This fit has got amazing tank. If you overheat your invul it has 16k hp. Definetly this is overpowered for something what cost 80 mils (double the price of a caracal) or 4 times more then a cormorant (obviously with fit and t2 rigs). Last night got killed in one valley by a fleet of cerbs / caracals. Remote reps couldn't save me, cause I was already in a pod.

Now lets look at the Cormorant. With fit it cost 20 mils (150 guns, sebos, mwd, 2 damage mods and rigs). It doesnt have any tank, but it cost 20 mils (not 80).

Numbers:
antimatter 266 DPS at 28.5 k + 7.5 k of falloff
spike 154 dps at 103 k range + 7.5 falloff

Do you realy think now that Svipul should be nerfed ?


Ok... not sure if i should just *facepalm* or argue but i guess im already typing....

First your fit (which i cant say i like) does over 300dps (republic fleet ammo, come on!) and close to 370 overheated. It also being an arti ship has close to 2000dmg alpha... thats the important number when using a fleet of these... Also... no one uses tremor.

The 16k ehp (T2 rigs please) might not seem much to you, but what your not taking into account is it has a tiny tiny sig... Sure if you fly one against a fleet of RLML Cerbs, (designed to hit small ships) you will likely have isses Roll ... but then i wonder how they caught you in the first place.

And when your talking price you should note once insured, your basically just paying for the fit.

And then you compare it to a gank fit Cormorant....

You make bad posters look bad...

No Worries

Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#112 - 2015-10-07 13:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Garrett Osinov
ChromeStriker wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:
As I previously said, ppl are whining that T3 destroyers should be nerfed, but those ppl never flown T3 destroyers. So lets talk about some numbers. And typical fleet setups of Svipul. No officers mods used by EFT warriors, just T2 stuff...

This is the fit some alliances use. Not that expensive, around 70-80 mils delivered to 0.0

[Svipul]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Now the numbers. With all maxed skills it does 275 DPS !!!! GUYS think about it 275 amazing DPS (obviously thats hell of a lot and this needs to be nerfed) at amazing 11.3 km (wicked range), ok it has another 10 km of falloff, but hey EFT warriors, I hope you know, that in falloff you loose a lot of DPS. And at amazing 20 km you might endup with 200 DPS. Thats a lot, for sure.

Now lets load a long range ammo, the Tremor. With long range ammo it has 40 km range + 10 km falloff (nowhere near the range of Cormorant, t1 destroyer worth 1.5 mil) and it does incredible 183 DPS.

Now lets talk about tank. This fit has got amazing tank. If you overheat your invul it has 16k hp. Definetly this is overpowered for something what cost 80 mils (double the price of a caracal) or 4 times more then a cormorant (obviously with fit and t2 rigs). Last night got killed in one valley by a fleet of cerbs / caracals. Remote reps couldn't save me, cause I was already in a pod.

Now lets look at the Cormorant. With fit it cost 20 mils (150 guns, sebos, mwd, 2 damage mods and rigs). It doesnt have any tank, but it cost 20 mils (not 80).

Numbers:
antimatter 266 DPS at 28.5 k + 7.5 k of falloff
spike 154 dps at 103 k range + 7.5 falloff

Do you realy think now that Svipul should be nerfed ?


Ok... not sure if i should just *facepalm* or argue but i guess im already typing....

First your fit (which i cant say i like) does over 300dps (republic fleet ammo, come on!) and close to 370 overheated. It also being an arti ship has close to 2000dmg alpha... thats the important number when using a fleet of these... Also... no one uses tremor.

The 16k ehp (T2 rigs please) might not seem much to you, but what your not taking into account is it has a tiny tiny sig... Sure if you fly one against a fleet of RLML Cerbs, (designed to hit small ships) you will likely have isses Roll ... but then i wonder how they caught you in the first place.

And when your talking price you should note once insured, your basically just paying for the fit.

And then you compare it to a gank fit Cormorant....

You make bad posters look bad...


My mistake about EMP, but anyway...republic fleet 316 DPS....amazing 316 DPS at 10k range ! This is facepalm !!! Basicaly in scram or web range. Without overheat. And you know what ? Other ships can use overheat too, so lets not take that into account !

Also I guess you never flown it, thats why you didn't hear about ppl using tremor, so you can have a bit of range (and not be in web/scram range of enemy fleet).

Ok T2 rigs for extra 20 mils to the price of a ship you will get an amazing increase to 17.1 ehp !!! 17.1

And I open another secret to you...fleets do you rapid lights caracals and cerbs with a target painters fittied, so a svipul becomes a target with a sig radius of a moon wich gets hit for full damage !
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#113 - 2015-10-07 13:35:34 UTC
Biggest most obvious strawman I've seen in a while, I'm almost impressed.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2015-10-07 13:55:39 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
Biggest most obvious strawman I've seen in a while, I'm almost impressed.


I would be... except im kinda worried he's being sinceare What?

No Worries

Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2015-10-07 13:57:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Doctor Knuckles
Garrett Osinov wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:
As I previously said, ppl are whining that T3 destroyers should be nerfed, but those ppl never flown T3 destroyers. So lets talk about some numbers. And typical fleet setups of Svipul. No officers mods used by EFT warriors, just T2 stuff...

This is the fit some alliances use. Not that expensive, around 70-80 mils delivered to 0.0

[Svipul]

Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Disruptor II
5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP S
[Empty High slot]
[Empty High slot]

Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I
Small Core Defense Field Extender I

Now the numbers. With all maxed skills it does 275 DPS !!!! GUYS think about it 275 amazing DPS (obviously thats hell of a lot and this needs to be nerfed) at amazing 11.3 km (wicked range), ok it has another 10 km of falloff, but hey EFT warriors, I hope you know, that in falloff you loose a lot of DPS. And at amazing 20 km you might endup with 200 DPS. Thats a lot, for sure.

Now lets load a long range ammo, the Tremor. With long range ammo it has 40 km range + 10 km falloff (nowhere near the range of Cormorant, t1 destroyer worth 1.5 mil) and it does incredible 183 DPS.

Now lets talk about tank. This fit has got amazing tank. If you overheat your invul it has 16k hp. Definetly this is overpowered for something what cost 80 mils (double the price of a caracal) or 4 times more then a cormorant (obviously with fit and t2 rigs). Last night got killed in one valley by a fleet of cerbs / caracals. Remote reps couldn't save me, cause I was already in a pod.

Now lets look at the Cormorant. With fit it cost 20 mils (150 guns, sebos, mwd, 2 damage mods and rigs). It doesnt have any tank, but it cost 20 mils (not 80).

Numbers:
antimatter 266 DPS at 28.5 k + 7.5 k of falloff
spike 154 dps at 103 k range + 7.5 falloff

Do you realy think now that Svipul should be nerfed ?


Ok... not sure if i should just *facepalm* or argue but i guess im already typing....

First your fit (which i cant say i like) does over 300dps (republic fleet ammo, come on!) and close to 370 overheated. It also being an arti ship has close to 2000dmg alpha... thats the important number when using a fleet of these... Also... no one uses tremor.

The 16k ehp (T2 rigs please) might not seem much to you, but what your not taking into account is it has a tiny tiny sig... Sure if you fly one against a fleet of RLML Cerbs, (designed to hit small ships) you will likely have isses Roll ... but then i wonder how they caught you in the first place.

And when your talking price you should note once insured, your basically just paying for the fit.

And then you compare it to a gank fit Cormorant....

You make bad posters look bad...


My mistake about EMP, but anyway...republic fleet 316 DPS....amazing 316 DPS at 10k range ! This is facepalm !!! Basicaly in scram or web range. Without overheat. And you know what ? Other ships can use overheat too, so lets not take that into account !

Also I guess you never flown it, thats why you didn't hear about ppl using tremor, so you can have a bit of range (and not be in web/scram range of enemy fleet).

Ok T2 rigs for extra 20 mils to the price of a ship you will get an amazing increase to 17.1 ehp !!! 17.1

And I open another secret to you...fleets do you rapid lights caracals and cerbs with a target painters fittied, so a svipul becomes a target with a sig radius of a moon wich gets hit for full damage !



your fit is just a pricey cockbag tbh, you just want the alpha there.

AC fleet fits get close to 500 dps hot, 30 k+ buffer with shield harmonizing (gonna be there in a fleet, reasonably) with a tiny ass sig, and can have the fitting space to add 2 small neuts on top of that, which is just icing on the cake and is gonna ruin a lot of people's day
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#116 - 2015-10-07 14:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Garrett Osinov
Thats is exellent, at least we all here agree, that is not an extremly overpowered ship with arties and it shouldn't be nerfed.

About autocannons fit, good luck with it, get webbed, scrammed, dictor on top and raped by a fleet of cruisers with rapids lights or any cruiser sized close range weapon.

Also it might have with 3 damage mods and all lvl5 skills 480 dps in theory with overheat and in its optimal and 25k ehp without links. But other ships can use links as well.

You two talking about small sig ? How about target painters, most missile fleets use them. Gun based fleets use webs. So it is not that amazing having even 30 k ehp at close range.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2015-10-07 14:26:54 UTC
Haha answers for everything this one...

Unfortunetly in practice what your saying doesnt happen (often enough anyway)... and Svipuls are dominating. Your trying too hard to make them worse than they are with pigion hole situations and shortsighted arguements.

No Worries

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#118 - 2015-10-07 14:30:55 UTC
Garrett Osinov wrote:
Thats is exellent, at least we all here agree, that is not an amazing ship with arties and it shouldn't be nerfed.

About autocannons fit, good luck with it, get webbed, scrammed, dictor on top and raped by a fleet of cruisers with rapids lights or any cruiser sized close range weapon.

Also it might have with 3 damage mods and all lvl5 skills 480 dps in theory with overheat and in its optimal and 25k ehp without links. But other ships can use links as well.

You two talking about small sig ? How about target painters, most missile fleets use them. Gun based fleets use webs. So it is not that amazing having even 30 k ehp at close range.

Fleet comprised of dictors, tackle, dps, logi, painter support ships vs solo T3D.

Aka strawman.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2015-10-07 15:05:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Garrett Osinov wrote:
M8, if you are going to say in the nerf thread, that a svipul is a f**g amazing ship, that it is overpowered and it does bazzilion dps, then it will get nerfed for sure and we ain't going to enjoy it in it's current state.


This just in peeps.

Feel free to believe it or not, up to you, but just got this doozy in an eve mail Roll

Its guys like this that make balancing ships so difficult lol

No Worries

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#120 - 2015-10-07 15:16:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
ChromeStriker wrote:
Garrett Osinov wrote:
M8, if you are going to say in the nerf thread, that a svipul is a f**g amazing ship, that it is overpowered and it does bazzilion dps, then it will get nerfed for sure and we ain't going to enjoy it in it's current state.


That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3