These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

Is sub-40 minutes for Golem in AE reasonable?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#1 - 2015-10-04 19:12:04 UTC
I could use some help from experienced L4 runners to help me figure out if I can optimize Angel Extravaganza while keeping to a Golem, or if I've pretty much peaked the run time at roughly 37 minutes.

I run l4 missions as my current career. In order to learn them really well, I have been farming them daily.

I have very solid missile and Golem skills (Everything at L5, few at L4), and here's how I run Angel Extravaganza:

- I do not do the bonus room
- I salvage all wrecks as I go except the 3-4 final medium wrecks at 60+ km in the 4th pocket (I use an MTU + 1 ship-mounted tractor, 2 salvager II's on the ship.)
- I use bastion, but turn it off in time so that I'm never stuck waiting to warp when the pocket's done
- I use Rage torps for anything <46km, and regular torps or even a few Javelins for the stuff further out
- I kill triggers as soon as I can take the additional aggro to make sure I'm not waiting for targets to get in range
- I use AB to get to gates. (Tried Missile Guidance computer w/ scripts instead of AB, but the extra damage does not result in any less volleys needed to kill BS, so it doesn't seem to save time.)
- In the 3rd pocket, I kill the lone BS and salvage / loot it. I ignore all the towers / guns and warp to 4th pocket as soon as BS wreck is salvaged.

Given all of this, my average time is around 37-40 minutes, starting from warping into the 1st pocket and ending with warping out (w/o killing completion trigger BS). I could shave off 2-3 minutes if I stop salvaging a pocket as soon as all ships are dead, but I can pretty much salvage stuff almost as fast as I kill it.

Is there anything I'm not thinking of, outside of a completely different ship, to shave a significant portion of time off? I'm using 3 TPs on everything, and light drones to clear the frigates in plenty of time. I can't really identify any time bottlenecks, other than waiting to salvage a few med/small wrecks at the end of a pocket.

I've heard anecdotes of people doing this in 25 minutes in a Mach. If this is true, it means I must be doing something seriously wrong in my Golem, as my Rage torps register as almost 1,400 DPS, and I'm ALWAYS in range to be hitting targets - there's no "damage application" issue in AE. I'm *hoping* the 25 minute story was a bit of hype / exaggeration. :)

Thanks for reading - sorry this was so long.
Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-10-04 19:30:19 UTC
The Larold wrote:
I could use some help from experienced L4 runners to help me figure out if I can optimize Angel Extravaganza while keeping to a Golem, or if I've pretty much peaked the run time at roughly 37 minutes.

I run l4 missions as my current career. In order to learn them really well, I have been farming them daily.

I have very solid missile and Golem skills (Everything at L5, few at L4), and here's how I run Angel Extravaganza:

- I do not do the bonus room
- I salvage all wrecks as I go except the 3-4 final medium wrecks at 60+ km in the 4th pocket (I use an MTU + 1 ship-mounted tractor, 2 salvager II's on the ship.)
- I use bastion, but turn it off in time so that I'm never stuck waiting to warp when the pocket's done
- I use Rage torps for anything <46km, and regular torps or even a few Javelins for the stuff further out
- I kill triggers as soon as I can take the additional aggro to make sure I'm not waiting for targets to get in range
- I use AB to get to gates. (Tried Missile Guidance computer w/ scripts instead of AB, but the extra damage does not result in any less volleys needed to kill BS, so it doesn't seem to save time.)
- In the 3rd pocket, I kill the lone BS and salvage / loot it. I ignore all the towers / guns and warp to 4th pocket as soon as BS wreck is salvaged.

Given all of this, my average time is around 37-40 minutes, starting from warping into the 1st pocket and ending with warping out (w/o killing completion trigger BS). I could shave off 2-3 minutes if I stop salvaging a pocket as soon as all ships are dead, but I can pretty much salvage stuff almost as fast as I kill it.

Is there anything I'm not thinking of, outside of a completely different ship, to shave a significant portion of time off? I'm using 3 TPs on everything, and light drones to clear the frigates in plenty of time. I can't really identify any time bottlenecks, other than waiting to salvage a few med/small wrecks at the end of a pocket.

I've heard anecdotes of people doing this in 25 minutes in a Mach. If this is true, it means I must be doing something seriously wrong in my Golem, as my Rage torps register as almost 1,400 DPS, and I'm ALWAYS in range to be hitting targets - there's no "damage application" issue in AE. I'm *hoping* the 25 minute story was a bit of hype / exaggeration. :)

Thanks for reading - sorry this was so long.





I always skip this missions, because it gives lowest possible income. In 37 minutes I can do 2-3 burners and 1-2 blitzing missions.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#3 - 2015-10-04 19:48:16 UTC
rage torps and no application issues, you sure about that?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#4 - 2015-10-04 20:11:03 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
rage torps and no application issues, you sure about that?


he said he has 3 TP

I too run with 3 TP on my golem, and it pretty let me destroy BC/cruiser/destroyer in one volley of rage torp. 2 shot on BS
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#5 - 2015-10-04 20:14:14 UTC
unidenify wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
rage torps and no application issues, you sure about that?


he said he has 3 TP

I too run with 3 TP on my golem, and it pretty let me destroy cruiser/destroyer in one volley of rage torp. 1/2 shot on BS/BC


Same results for me. One-shot on destroyers and battlecruisers, usually 1-shot on cruisers but sometimes 2. 2/3 volleys needed for BS, sometimes 4 for the tougher ones.

I would _love_ to be able to 1-shot a BS but it hasn't happened yet, even with Rage and 3 TPs within optimal range.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#6 - 2015-10-04 20:29:10 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
I would wage issue with golem over mach is that Mach travel faster

I recommend MJD over AB though

I do math on min distance where do double MJD in angle is much faster than AB

math show that any distance that is more than 25km, MJD would be faster than T2 AB
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#7 - 2015-10-04 21:13:26 UTC
unidenify wrote:
I would wage issue with golem over mach is that Mach travel faster

I recommend MJD over AB though

I do math on min distance where do double MJD in angle is much faster than AB

math show that any distance that is more than 25km, MJD would be faster than T2 AB


While this makes good sense, I don't think it applies in AE. There's never more than 10km to travel to any gate. (My memory may be wrong - there may be one 20km gate in there, but still, AB seems the way to go for AE.)
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2015-10-04 21:43:23 UTC
unidenify wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
rage torps and no application issues, you sure about that?


he said he has 3 TP

I too run with 3 TP on my golem, and it pretty let me destroy BC/cruiser/destroyer in one volley of rage torp. 2 shot on BS

I've run a 5 painter golem. Now with bastion that is easily manageable, however now with MGC I think that dropping down to 3/4 painters and 1/2 MGC would probably be best. I haven't done the math.

I just have doubts about a 3 painter golem applying fully with rage torps. is it applying enough that the rage torps are worth using, maybe? but I have memories of 3 painters not being enough even with navy torps vs angels.

these days I've abandoned the golem completely, and also automatically decline AE.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#9 - 2015-10-04 22:06:04 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
unidenify wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
rage torps and no application issues, you sure about that?


he said he has 3 TP

I too run with 3 TP on my golem, and it pretty let me destroy BC/cruiser/destroyer in one volley of rage torp. 2 shot on BS

I've run a 5 painter golem. Now with bastion that is easily manageable, however now with MGC I think that dropping down to 3/4 painters and 1/2 MGC would probably be best. I haven't done the math.

I just have doubts about a 3 painter golem applying fully with rage torps. is it applying enough that the rage torps are worth using, maybe? but I have memories of 3 painters not being enough even with navy torps vs angels.

these days I've abandoned the golem completely, and also automatically decline AE.


You know, just today I was wondering if I should try 4 TP's. Even with the stacking bonus, I was thinking it might get me some extra applicable damage. Was trying to figure out which mid-slot to remove, though. I tend to need 2 hardeners, a shield boost, and either an AB or an MGC for the 7th slot.
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
#10 - 2015-10-04 23:06:01 UTC
Why a propulsion mod anyway? Every gate is usually well under 10k (rooms 1,2,3) or at near 0 (room 4,5). I would think the more damage,making quicker kills, would be faster than adding an AB.

To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.

...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2015-10-04 23:26:00 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
rage torps and no application issues, you sure about that?

Essentially these were my thoughts.
Consider dropping at least one of the TP''s and possibly all of them for the Missile Guidance Computers with precision scripts.
Lose a little on the sig radius side of the equation and then gain it all back and then some on the explosion velocity and explosion radius side with no penalty to range. Other benefits to them is they are not affected by range as the TP's are and you can change out the precision script in one or more of them for range scripts to help with those ships that are just beyond your max range when / if needed. Beauty is they are cheap and easy to swap, if they work for you great if not then pull them and sell them. My son likes the way these work in combination with his torp fit Golem so I thought I would mention it.

I know it is not popular with many but a cruise fit with rigors might be a better option for your style of mission running. Based on the experience my son and I have had over the last few years his torp fit is clearly better on the BS as long as they are in range. The BC seem to be a toss up. Anything cruiser and down my cruise fit is superior in every way.

As for the speed considering that you are killing AND salvaging there is probably not much left to gain. The magic 25 minutes would in my assessment be doing them as a true blitz which essentially means ignoring all of the salvage and kill / loot only the things required to complete the mission.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#12 - 2015-10-05 03:21:35 UTC
In room 4, kill the satellite structure near the acceleration gate before poping triggers and additional adds won't spawn. (Also means you won't need to waste time + dps switching to javelins).

In room 5, just killing the triggers and the BS that spawns with the spider drones is enough for completion.

For reference, I can reliably clear this mission in a Vargur in ~15mins give or take a couple mins.
Rexxorr
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-10-05 04:41:38 UTC
You could try a cruise rigor rig fit Golem.

Missions with lots of battle cruiser and below npc's, cruise will pull ahead due to better damage application.
Cruise will lose less dps due to over kill and has a faster rate of fire, small stuff will die faster.
Nothing is out of range of cruise, as soon as you lock your applying dps, no slow boating to get in range.
No need to switch ammo, switching torp ammo for better range/application, and waiting ten sec is a dps loss.


I run three tractors in the highs, I rely on drones alone to salvage. I will lose a salvage drone from time to time but I carry spares and they are cheap. When landing in a mission pocket with a Golem, I will drop an mtu, launch salvage drones and kill the frigs first to keep them off the salvage drones. As soon as a npc dies I tractored it in to be auto looted and salvaged by the drones.


The best feature of the mtu is not the tractor beam but the auto loot when any wrecks are nearby. Also I find using a mwd is more useful in missions than a mjd or ab.


I would go to the test server and try out different fits for the Golem to get a feel for how they perform, however the test server may not be giving out regular lvl 4 missions atm... (burners)



GL
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#14 - 2015-10-05 14:28:07 UTC
If you are doing AE, you should be doing the bonus room. You have 4 Malakims, 5 Thrones, and a Seraphim in there. That's 5-7mil in bounties right there. If you have already wasted 40 minutes, mine as well spend an additional 5 minutes.
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#15 - 2015-10-05 18:43:11 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
If you are doing AE, you should be doing the bonus room. You have 4 Malakims, 5 Thrones, and a Seraphim in there. That's 5-7mil in bounties right there. If you have already wasted 40 minutes, mine as well spend an additional 5 minutes.


I like to farm this mission daily so that I can learn it inside and out. To do the bonus room requires killing everything in the 5th pocket, and THAT requires the completion trigger, which I do not want.

When I run AE for the last time before turning it in, yes, I do the bonus room. And once I have learned it to the extent I want, I'll quit farming it and then do the bonus room as SOP.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#16 - 2015-10-05 19:56:05 UTC
Is 25 minutes more exaggeration than truth? A little, though admittedly not by much if at all. I know Vargurs can easily average that plus 5 if running the whole mission. But 37-40 is pretty lengthy especially if you're not running the bonus room. Actually, 37-40 is a bit much with the bonus room, and there's little reason to run that mission without the bonus room anyways considering half the profit is in that bonus room all together, both loot and bounty-wise. Don't take this the wrong way, because it'll sound like I'm accusing you of trolling, but I find it very hard to believe near-1400 DPS Torp fit on a Golem is taking that long to run that mission, unless your application skills or lack of any app imps/tps are drastically affecting your applied dps, which is possible with Angels. Or perhaps you're just taking your time and not realizing how much time you're focusing on loot and salvage. Since range isn't an issue, I doubt switching to cruises are gonna make things different for you.

My word of advice is this; if that little 5 minute aggression timer against NPC's ever elapses in the middle of a mission, drop what you're doing and move on to the next room. That's your first clue that you're tunnel visioning on the loot too much. Drop an MTU while you're killing the field and aid it with your own tractors when possible, but don't just linger around each room like that for too long. I would say have a minimum of 2 TP's with at least one MGC or 3 or more TP's without MGC's on a Golem.

And, for Maker's sake, AE4 is hardly the ideal mission to be farming. Leave that to missions like Blockade or Gone Berserk, where the mission trigger is closest to the last rat or are one-room missions, or both like those two are. Unless you have agents out the ying-yang, farming missions like AE4 is a waste of an agent -- and time to some extent -- for the week.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#17 - 2015-10-05 20:45:49 UTC
The Larold wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:
If you are doing AE, you should be doing the bonus room. You have 4 Malakims, 5 Thrones, and a Seraphim in there. That's 5-7mil in bounties right there. If you have already wasted 40 minutes, mine as well spend an additional 5 minutes.


I like to farm this mission daily so that I can learn it inside and out. To do the bonus room requires killing everything in the 5th pocket, and THAT requires the completion trigger, which I do not want.

When I run AE for the last time before turning it in, yes, I do the bonus room. And once I have learned it to the extent I want, I'll quit farming it and then do the bonus room as SOP.


So you are looting everything, along with salvaging the wrecks? Then yes, 40 minutes is prolly just about right. You could lower the time, by putting a MTU in each pocket and bokkmarking them. Then come back later and salvage wrecks in a Noctis. That is actually the only time I would use a Noctis.

If you are not looting and salvaging everything, then you are taking too long in this mission; as the whole thing + the bonus room can be done in 25 minutes.
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#18 - 2015-10-06 00:21:36 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Is 25 minutes more exaggeration than truth? A little, though admittedly not by much if at all. I know Vargurs can easily average that plus 5 if running the whole mission. But 37-40 is pretty lengthy especially if you're not running the bonus room. Actually, 37-40 is a bit much with the bonus room, and there's little reason to run that mission without the bonus room anyways considering half the profit is in that bonus room all together, both loot and bounty-wise. Don't take this the wrong way, because it'll sound like I'm accusing you of trolling, but I find it very hard to believe near-1400 DPS Torp fit on a Golem is taking that long to run that mission, unless your application skills or lack of any app imps/tps are drastically affecting your applied dps, which is possible with Angels. Or perhaps you're just taking your time and not realizing how much time you're focusing on loot and salvage. Since range isn't an issue, I doubt switching to cruises are gonna make things different for you.


I totally understand why it sounds like I was trolling; I wasn't. I *think* the issue lies in what a poster recently mentioned -
I am looting and salvaging *everything* except guns / ammo from pocket 3, and last 3-4 wrecks in pocket 4 which are way out at 60+km.

I also think that the closer I look, the Rage torps don't greatly decrease the # of volleys needed to kill BS. Mostly, I go from the second volley leaving all structure and some armor, to leaving some structure. I think Torp DPS has to be thought of in terms of # of volleys required. My missile skills are all V, with the exception of a couple at 4. I'm sing 3 faction TP's, with signature focusing at V and Marauders at IV. I'm single-shotting destoryers, cruisers, and BC's, so that's not slowing me down.


Quote:
My word of advice is this; if that little 5 minute aggression timer against NPC's ever elapses in the middle of a mission, drop what you're doing and move on to the next room. That's your first clue that you're tunnel visioning on the loot too much. Drop an MTU while you're killing the field and aid it with your own tractors when possible, but don't just linger around each room like that for too long. I would say have a minimum of 2 TP's with at least one MGC or 3 or more TP's without MGC's on a Golem.

Yup - I use 3 RF TP's and a MGC with precision script (occasional range needed.) Great advice looking at the aggression timer - I'll try that. I also use an MTU + 1 tractor + 2 salvagers.

I'll try running it with just killing ships then moving on - will be interesting to see how fast that goes. Thanks for the advice.
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#19 - 2015-10-06 05:45:09 UTC
Update:

Holy criminey...

I just ran AE in my Golem in 27-28 minutes. (No bonus room though.) I simply ignored loot and salvage. Amazing. :)

Thanks for the advice everyone. Looks like damage application wasn't at all an issue. :)
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-10-06 22:43:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
The Larold wrote:
Update:

Holy criminey...

I just ran AE in my Golem in 27-28 minutes. (No bonus room though.) I simply ignored loot and salvage. Amazing. :)

Thanks for the advice everyone. Looks like damage application wasn't at all an issue. :)


Now do the math.

Is your ISK/minute higher with or without loot and salvaging. Generally the higher your skill the more likely the aswer is "without".

Overall with good SP it tends to be highest with no salvage and only lootiing "low hanging fruit" that does not interfere with completion time.



EDIT:
... oh ... and if your not already use Synth Crash - 900K ISK for 30 minutes of 3% better missile application, perfectly legal in hisec and no side effects, total bargain and more than pays for itself in a torp Golem
12Next page