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War dec exploit - CCP comment???

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Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-01-05 03:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Har Harrison
So CCP changed the corp jumping mechanics to allow people to leave corps and not deem it an exploit.

But what about people forcing a war dec that lets them shoot without the 24 hour notice period??

Notification 1

AAA Destruction Declares War Against BBB
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2012.01.04 23:43

AAA has declared war on BBB.
Fighting can legally occur between those involved.


Notification 2

AAA Retracts War Against BBB
From: CONCORD
Sent: 2012.01.04 23:43

The war between AAA and BBB is coming to an end.AAA has retracted the war against BBB. The war will be declared as being over after approximately 24 hours.

Corp management tab shows

Started 2012.01.01 00:00:05
Issued By AAA
Against BBB
Finished 2012.01.04 23:43:00
Can Fight Yes
Retracted 2012.01.04 23:43:00
Mutual No

So explain to me, how a dec can made, immediately pulled, and they get 24 hours to shoot someone???

This was is on an alt, but the same thing happened to this corp a few months back. I thought it was noobs being silly initially, but now I realised that a number of corps are doing this to get legal pew in high sec without their targets realising they have started a war and don't have the 24 hours grace period.

Oh, there is also a typo in the retraction notification - no space between the period and the name of the deccer

coming to an end.[war deccer] has retracted
Brock Nelson
#2 - 2012-01-05 03:45:36 UTC
Against All Authories is still in this game?

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
Tiberius Sunstealer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-05 03:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Sunstealer
Brock Nelson wrote:
Against All Authories is still in this game?

Big Breasted Bastards are still in this game?

(Only thing I could think up that worked with BBB...What?)

Edit: Big Breasted Bandits is better.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-01-05 04:01:16 UTC
I used AAA and BBB to hie the corps/alliances involved...
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#5 - 2012-01-05 04:09:22 UTC
its meaningless unless you actually tried to shoot a WT

did you?
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-05 04:56:03 UTC
They decced us - no idea if they have found anyone yet and tried to shoot them...

The issue is that they can shoot without the 24 hour notice occuring
Brock Nelson
#7 - 2012-01-05 05:10:43 UTC
So...how you know that they can shoot you without the 24 hours notice occuring?

Signature removed, CCP Phantom
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#8 - 2012-01-05 05:44:20 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
So...how you know that they can shoot you without the 24 hours notice occuring?


^^^^ This.

OP, are you really expecting EVE to have correct documentation on how Anything works? If so, you must be really new here.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-01-05 08:38:34 UTC
Brock Nelson wrote:
So...how you know that they can shoot you without the 24 hours notice occuring?

Can Fight = Yes

Or is the game so broken that this flag says that they can fight, when it actual fact they can't??? Roll
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#10 - 2012-01-05 08:54:23 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Brock Nelson wrote:
So...how you know that they can shoot you without the 24 hours notice occuring?

Can Fight = Yes

Or is the game so broken that this flag says that they can fight, when it actual fact they can't??? Roll


Probably, yeah. Plenty of stuff in the game that says one thing, but acts differently.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
ShipToaster
#11 - 2012-01-05 09:27:40 UTC
Anything except joining a corp within space is allowed according to the big wardec thread.

.
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-01-05 09:38:05 UTC
CCP doesn't give a rat's ass about highsec war dec mechanics anymore, so if the problem that you say exists actually exists don't expect some kind of solution.

I could be nice and say "I hope they fix it" but it's been 6 years since the mechanics were adjusted so I'm not holding my breath.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#13 - 2012-01-05 09:49:30 UTC
This is worth a Sisi login. Griefing alliance jumpers sounds like fun.
GM Lelouch
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
#14 - 2012-01-05 09:52:22 UTC
A corporation/alliance will always have to wait for 24 hours before aggressions can begin at the start of a war, there is no way to bypass this timer, war retraction shenanigans will not actually achieve this.

A corporation will however continue to be involved in a war for 24 hours after leaving a warring alliance. Notifications such as the ones in this thread are sent out in such an event, but they are sadly not very descriptive at all so it is quite easy to mistake them for an exploit while everything is actually in order.


In this particular instance, AAA (corporation) was a member of CCC (alliance), an alliance which was at war with BBB (alliance). AAA left CCC at 2012.01.04 23:43 (the time at which the notifications were sent) and will therefore continue to be at war with any entities CCC was at war with for a period of 24 hours. Note that AAA was already at war with these entities before through their membership of CCC.

Finally, if any of CCC's wars had started less than 24 hours ago, it would mean that AAA would not be at war with them until that stasis period ends. For example, if CCC had declared war on DDD at 2012.01.04 23:00, both CCC and AAA wouldn't be able to fire upon DDD targets until 2012.01.05 23:43. AAA would in other words only be at war for 43 minutes before their involvement ends as they left the CCC alliance the day before.

Best regards, Lead GM Lelouch CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#15 - 2012-01-05 10:02:52 UTC
LAWYERED! Big smile

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#16 - 2012-01-05 10:16:27 UTC
Chribba wrote:
LAWYERED! Big smile


So GM and CCP posts also notify you, I guess.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#17 - 2012-01-05 10:27:38 UTC
GM Lelouch wrote:
A corporation/alliance will always have to wait for 24 hours before aggressions can begin at the start of a war, there is no way to bypass this timer, war retraction shenanigans will not actually achieve this.

What about the target of a wardec joining an alliance after the war is active? That causes an instant war between the agressors and the alliance the target joined:

  1. Corp A declares war on Corp B.
  2. Corp B applies to alliance C.
  3. 24 hours pass while the alliance application is processed.
  4. Corp A is at war with Alliance C the instant the notifications arrive.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#18 - 2012-01-05 10:29:23 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:
A corporation/alliance will always have to wait for 24 hours before aggressions can begin at the start of a war, there is no way to bypass this timer, war retraction shenanigans will not actually achieve this.

What about the target of a wardec joining an alliance after the war is active? That causes an instant war between the agressors and the alliance the target joined:

  1. Corp A declares war on Corp B.
  2. Corp B applies to alliance C.
  3. 24 hours pass while the alliance application is processed.
  4. Corp A is at war with Alliance C the instant the notifications arrive.


The Alliance can see Corp B's incoming wardec, IIRC.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#19 - 2012-01-05 10:37:20 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Jack Dant wrote:
GM Lelouch wrote:
A corporation/alliance will always have to wait for 24 hours before aggressions can begin at the start of a war, there is no way to bypass this timer, war retraction shenanigans will not actually achieve this.

What about the target of a wardec joining an alliance after the war is active? That causes an instant war between the agressors and the alliance the target joined:

  1. Corp A declares war on Corp B.
  2. Corp B applies to alliance C.
  3. 24 hours pass while the alliance application is processed.
  4. Corp A is at war with Alliance C the instant the notifications arrive.


The Alliance can see Corp B's incoming wardec, IIRC.

Only by explicitly searching for wars (no automated notification). And Corp A has no warning at all.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
Valei Khurelem
#20 - 2012-01-05 10:49:06 UTC
GM Lelouch wrote:
A corporation/alliance will always have to wait for 24 hours before aggressions can begin at the start of a war, there is no way to bypass this timer, war retraction shenanigans will not actually achieve this.

A corporation will however continue to be involved in a war for 24 hours after leaving a warring alliance. Notifications such as the ones in this thread are sent out in such an event, but they are sadly not very descriptive at all so it is quite easy to mistake them for an exploit while everything is actually in order.


In this particular instance, AAA (corporation) was a member of CCC (alliance), an alliance which was at war with BBB (alliance). AAA left CCC at 2012.01.04 23:43 (the time at which the notifications were sent) and will therefore continue to be at war with any entities CCC was at war with for a period of 24 hours. Note that AAA was already at war with these entities before through their membership of CCC.

Finally, if any of CCC's wars had started less than 24 hours ago, it would mean that AAA would not be at war with them until that stasis period ends. For example, if CCC had declared war on DDD at 2012.01.04 23:00, both CCC and AAA wouldn't be able to fire upon DDD targets until 2012.01.05 23:43. AAA would in other words only be at war for 43 minutes before their involvement ends as they left the CCC alliance the day before.


Why haven't you given peaceful corporations the option of blocking war declarations? I want to hear the reasoning from CCP on this and not just gankers who want things to stay the same so they can get easy industrial kills in high sec.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
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