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[Proposal] Remote Logi fatigue

#21 - 2015-10-03 11:04:19 UTC
Light touches! Shocked

Ok, so what happens if you let reps decrease movement speed in general, increase signature radius for shield reppers, and decrease agility for armor reppers? Lets say 1% effect for each 1000 units repped, and lets let the debuff have a 30 second timer decaying after it was applied, this will give a natural dynamic cap, and will actually give logi a role in those huge fleet fights - as webbers/target painters on tacklers. I suggest normalizing when this effect hits to reduce obvious advantages to shield boosters, this would mean that the repair effect on target ship is applied after the reppers cycle, regardless of when the repair hits.

Small gang effects quick overview:
Max % effect possible per logi (4 large reppers per logi): 9% ish.
  • Medium nerf to kiting setups, as the pursuing fleet lagging behind one target is going to be an advantage, and a fleeing fleet would have their one straggler which they would either have to leave, or various other mechanics.
  • Slightly decrease the mobility of fleet as a blob, giving local repping/bufferkiting ships increased chance of picking up stragglers and/or kiting the fleet.
  • Keeping one rep on FC/logi fc would be discouraged, but not fatal, as the actual % debuff would be relatively low.
  • Removing reps once target is full would be slightly more important.
  • DPS would probably stay longer on one particular target, discouraging the current "switch target and see if their logi is paying attention" meta, but certainly not removing the effect.
  • Buff to use of ECM as damage mitigation would beat damage repair systems by itself.
  • Shield fleets would be more vulnerable to higher caliber weapons and long range attacks, compunding the extender effects.
  • Armor fleets would be less agile in general, but also since they are already punished on speed with hullplates.

  • Large fleet effects:
    A wing of 50 logi would actually be able to web a single target by 15% first cycle of reppers, reaching 30% after 10 seconds etc. Reaching a saturation level of 92,2% after 30 seconds. Also in effect here is targeting speed increase and increased vulnerability to missiles, also slight vulnerability to higher tier weapons when using shield boosts. While armor repairers would ruin the speed/agility of the target, making interception maneuvers / hero tackling harder to do because of loss of transversal/speed tank.

    In other aspects:
  • Incursions logistics would be slightly affected by this change, but because of the current AI, and them switching targets relatively often, I foresee no major grievances here.
  • Lowsec gatecamps would be affected, but only slightly. One logi repping one target with one repper only gives an effect of about 2,3%, basically keeping the current balance.
  • Structure repping I'm sorry to say the structures movement speed/agility will be decreased by a number close to if not exactly infinite % making it the single most insane nerf in the history of the universe. Roll As for signature radius, this nerf is almost non-existant in comparison.
  • Random bomb runs in nullsec would get more interesting versus shield fleets, and movement speed decrease with 2 fleets fighting would make adding to the fight slightly easier.

  • Thats what I got so far, numbers can be tweaked, and idiotic statements can and will be edited out, probably... Big smile

    Commence discussion!

    Faxat out! o/

    Bobb Bobbington
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #22 - 2015-10-03 13:26:01 UTC
    Now, I'm 100% for leaving logi the hell alone, but I suppose, if CCP did eventually give in, what if they did what they did to freighters with cargo and ehp? Introduce mid slot and low slot modules that buffer rep amount or duration, but decrease base rep amount and base ehp? So you can fit for either high rep fleets vulnerable to alpha, or low rep fleets vulnerable to overwhelming dps? More variation in fleets, logi wouldn't be useless like some recent threads propose, and they're slightly more vulnerable. Seems like the best solution to me if you absolutely had to change logi.

    This is a signature.

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    Btw my corp's recruiting.

    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #23 - 2015-10-03 14:40:16 UTC
    well they are adding falloff too RR in winter patch which could be interesting i hope they look at reducing the optimal range significantly so falloff usage will be common kind of like ecm is now in recons, also hope the T2 resists logi have is nerfed down a bit ..

    no way should a support ship have better tanking ability than the combat ships like HAC's they are meant too be supporting, especially as logis tend too work in pairs at least and with the high resists make them very tough too break there tank.

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

    Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
    Department 10
    #24 - 2015-10-03 15:20:26 UTC
    I'm not sure there is a problem with logistics ships. If there is it sounds like it is only a problem within PvP so I would suggest restricting it to that part of the game. We don't want another situation similar to the Ishtar where the problem is obvious but other parts of the game are affected rather than just, in the case of the Ishtar, removing sentry drone usage from the Ishtar.

    " They're gonna feel pretty stupid when they find out. " Rick. " Find out what ? " Abraham. " They're screwing with the wrong people. " Rick. Season four.   ' The Walking Dead. ' .

    Khan Wrenth
    Amarr Empire
    #25 - 2015-11-27 12:31:29 UTC
    Khan Wrenth wrote:
    I see the writing on the wall...

    Told ya so.
    A Big Enough Lever
    #26 - 2015-11-28 00:38:26 UTC
    I think wait and see what the current pipeline changes do to the meta.

    then try adding midslot/lowslot 'RR boost amp' (mid for shield, low for armour)

    For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

    Zimmer Jones
    Gallente Federation
    #27 - 2015-11-28 00:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmer Jones
    A simple solution: logi get their output reps reduced in a 1:1 ratio by incoming reps.

    Logi A gets primaried, logi b,c,d,f pile reps on A, A loses all capablity for outgoing reps.
    Let logi actually have to bring an active repper to be more effective.

    Basi might need a bit of a rework.

    *ed yes, that was one of my classic bad ideas, so here is another(btw, i like the idea op)
    Repping overheats(at a very low rate, adjusted by thermodynamics skills) active gardeners. This will bring passive gardeners backnintonthe game, as well as active local reps. This would mean logi is exactly what it is supposed to be: support.

    Not a replacement for active telling, but complimentary and used a bit more sparingly. At the same a new mod can be introduced: ancillary remote module repair, the charges for which would be a nanite paste based "cap charge"

    That last bit is a flight of fancy to be sure, but its a pissoff to lose space for ammo, prostitutes and cap charges just for paste.

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