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Wardec thoughts
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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2015-10-02 17:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.


And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves.


Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired!
CCP should better be repair the game instead...

Anywhere else but not your gamestyle...
ho ho ho, how sweet.

To bad , even in an evil dark harsh EvE universe, baby seal clubbers are wusses and whiners.
Especially, when they condemn baby seals as the worst enemy that can happen to their world.
Man i am really laughing hard right know.

I beg you calmly:
Oh and please keep the doll and show us where the babyseals bit you!

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#62 - 2015-10-02 19:43:18 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired!


There's nothing broken about ganking, and the only thing "abused" about the wardec mechanic is the dec dodge exploit.

And pouring out poorly worded essays of tears on the forums doesn't change those facts, either.

Cry more.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#63 - 2015-10-02 19:51:08 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.


And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves.


Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired!
CCP should better be repair the game instead...

Anywhere else but not your gamestyle...
ho ho ho, how sweet.

To bad , even in an evil dark harsh EvE universe, baby seal clubbers are wusses and whiners.
Especially, when they condemn baby seals as the worst enemy that can happen to their world.
Man i am really laughing hard right know.

I beg you calmly:
Oh and please keep the doll and show us where the babyseals bit you!



Post with your main, or kindly disembark

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2015-10-02 21:11:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
It's not my fault you decided to make idiotic arguments about game mechanics without having any actual knowledge of the subject matter.

Telling you to spend a little time to make sure the corp you want to dec has stuff to defend or has a history of defending before declaring war is good advice.

Telling you to just gank the person if they are dodging wars is also a valid form of advice which I also follow myself. The security loss is tiny if you don't pod. If you pod it's a bit worse but still easy to recover from.


Coming here and QQing because your target corp disbanded after you declared war without bothering to do any research on your target isn't productive. HTFU and dec those that have something to defend or the capability to defend themselves. Otherwise just gank them and enjoy the free PVP that results from a KR.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#65 - 2015-10-04 05:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Bumblefck wrote:

Post with your main, or kindly disembark


This IS my main Mr. Bumblefck-face.(@ISD: if this expression is a problem, maybe the name itself is?)
Bear
If you can't say anything worthwile, it is you who should be quite.

You should realize, this is GD not kindergarden, ugh i mean "Crime and Cunishment".
Twisted
Every single one of my alts is my Main!
Don't like it?
Good!
You angry you can not group up with buddies and the likes of you, that you can not harras me out of EvE?
I would assume so.
Just look at my likes: i get them for my arguments and not for being in a certain interest group.
Can you say the same for yours?
no!

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
La Rynx wrote:

Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired!


There's nothing broken about ganking, and the only thing "abused" about the wardec mechanic is the dec dodge exploit.

And pouring out poorly worded essays of tears on the forums doesn't change those facts, either.

Cry more.

You wish.
The only one angry is you!
Big smile

And to abbreviate it:
- I am calm. (amused about your lack of arguments in fact)
- please show me on this doll where my arguments hurt you.
- yoin a propper NPC corp before you discuss here.
- longer argumentations may be hard to comprehend for you, i am sorry, i can not help you.
- post more other off topic ad hominem rambles because you have no good arguments.

Lots of stuff in EvE are broken, quirky or unfinished or badly implemented.
Take your HISEC ganking which leaves no risk to the ganker-carebear. Its just about timers and the most simple tactics to do so. Its way more work to be prepare gainst it. Especially if the attacking alliance even has any pos(!) and hides behind game mechanics. And ppl like this *dare* to blame other ppl for not leaving station.

But what you do want to realize is, that over your anger, *you* have tears in your eyes, because your playstyle might be in danger and you might be afraid to adapt.

All those arguments codies and their likes give, come back right in their face. tsh...

- Wardeccs need changes.
- Ganking needs changes.
- Hisec needs changes.
- EvE needs changes.
CCP is aware of that.

For those massive wardeccers, the risks taken are obviously not enough.
This shows one big problem:
Loosing isk does not matter. It obviosly ain't no risk, since ppl have enough of isk.

So more things have to be added.
Add more danger to wardeccs.
In war the attacker should have reduced or no income. Maybe they should even have to put up a war-chest to bring up and to cover all cost. The war-chest can not be worth more than the entity that will be aggressed has. The bigger the aggressor, the more "war-taxes" should be risen. To avoid abuse, those costs can not be given to the other group, it has to go to CCP / NPC groups. corps and alliances without assets like POS can not declare war, so have literally nothing they have to defend. If you have nothing to defend, it is not a war, it just aggresion.

Edit: changed the worst typos

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-10-04 06:33:48 UTC
Broodin wrote:
Just as a musing from a newer player to eve, why does the wardec system function as it does? Most of the wardecs I have seen are oversized corps and alliances decing smaller corps and the system seems horribly imbalanced in favor of the megacorps and griefing alliances. Curious as to why there isn't either an opt out or even a 5 billion/month limit 100 member/corp neutrality license that smaller corps can get to shield themselves from being bullied by larger corps.


It is mainly for the High-Sec pirates, in my experience. Pirate corps or alliances in High-Sec do it to the big alliances of Null-Sec all the time just so they can shoot any unsuspecting corps members that fly into their space (or the trade hubs in general).
Kestielh Mechielv
21st Mordu's Legion
#67 - 2015-10-04 16:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kestielh Mechielv
lol we don't care. Anyway Eve is dying, slowly but surely.. Just check through players stats activities since 1 year and half...Its pitiful to see how it actually crashing (First time I see a reduction like that since walk in station fail and coalition BLOC).

This is what happen when you give candies only to a certain group of persons instead of everyone!

Am still lucky to have alts to do anything on this game. Wardec system is useless, specially since you can just use some legal exploit with some bomber and kill everything you want at Jita as you want since Hi-sec is more broken than anything else in the whole game. wanna War dec me? Lolll lets play on a different character from another alt account and enjoy your Eve Offline war folks!

Thats how it work, and those who can'T afford multi-account or loose billions because CCP change this game like a kind of day-z **** game in Hi-sec when it is suppose to be in low security and of Course 0.0... They just get the **** out....Sadly pvp players need them (carebear) and one day if nothing change...It will be a new star wars galaxies drama, even if you like, or not Hi-sec gameplay.

Hater gonna hate but you need to know that your way and my way of playing a game isn't nescessary the way everyone want to play and CCP must respect that and deal with it. If not they just will become another battlestar galactica Online 2.0

Eve is real
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#68 - 2015-10-04 16:30:16 UTC
La Rynx wrote:

The only one angry is you!


The page and a half of ranting doggerel you posted suggests otherwise.

In fact, it suggests rather the opposite of what you intend.

But then, SJWs always project.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#69 - 2015-10-05 01:41:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
The problem is the people who actually want fights are in nullsec.

Highsec you get risk averse turds in blobs spamming wardecs on anything and everything to then camp a tradehub. Everyone else either not trained for any sort of PVP or not capable.


Lowsec you get blobs of Russian alts, who really don't want any kind of fights. They just want you to die and will only log off their 10 alts if you bring more than yourself to a fight.



CCP can't do much but keep mixing things up, the game has been getting better. Or has it been dying? I don't really frikin know.

Deccers are complaining when their corp target scatters upon dec, and corp people are complaining that they are getting decced. How do you even fix this?

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#70 - 2015-10-05 03:36:30 UTC
In this kind of game, size wins. Bigger fleet wins. More firepower wins. Firepower gets killmails.

And, in order to grow past a certain point, you have to eliminate threats, either by diplomacy or superior firepower. So, you always end up with this:
Big mercs won't shoot each other because they know they can get hurt, or it's not profitable. It's a lot more profitable to gank freighters, and a whole lot more profitable if these freighters happen to not be behind CONCORD protection so you don't need a whole bunch of disposable ships.
Oh, and you lose a lot less if these freighters aren't the escorted variety.
So: wardeccing miners and traders and taking/wrecking their stuff is strategically correct play under current mechanics: you risk little because these tend not to have serious assets exposed to enemy fire (something CODE. players like to mention in C+P).
In the other direction, a small trader corp getting decced is playing correctly by sending all their squishy freighter and barge pilots into NPCorps. Presenting an easier target than you need to is stupid strategy. The best defense is free CONCORD protection.
What's more, most of these miners and traders sell the mercs everything they need on the open market. There was a topic in F+I about putting a trade hub in null with CONCORDish mechanics so people would be able to trade. Danika Princip kept complaining about how people would use this trade hub to stage attacks on goons if it happened to be in goon space, and the goons wouldn't be able to do anything about it. This is precisely the condition which lets mercs wreck small trader and miner corps with near impunity, and not need an economy (pos, customs, barges/freighters of their own) exposed to enemy attack.

tl;dr Trade hubs in hisec mean wardeccers don't need to expose any shiny squishy assets to their war targets because they just buy whatever they need to gank with at the local hub, and wardecced corps' most correct play is to not fight a stronger foe if they can help it.

A signature :o
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#71 - 2015-10-05 03:59:35 UTC
OP, you bring up incredibly valid points.

You ought to know that everyone who disagrees with your stance is actually part of these griefing corporations in one way or another, and defend their existence so they can continue to drive new players out of the game.

Interacting with these people will bring you nothing but misery because they are miserable people.

Good luck and stay off the forums, for your own sake.

#thebest
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2015-10-05 05:35:49 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.


And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves.



Effort of course just means buying more alts to circumvent pesky things like wardecs, sec status and standings.

Let's pretend for a moment we aren't all completely ignorant of how the metagame works.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#73 - 2015-10-05 15:43:31 UTC
Hole Checker wrote:

..
Lol killing mission runners and industrials is not exactly engaging pvp
...

Nothing to see here, move along.

Would you like to know more?
Salvos Rhoska
#74 - 2015-10-05 16:10:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Hal Morsh wrote:


Deccers are complaining when their corp target scatters upon dec, and corp people are complaining that they are getting decced. How do you even fix this?


This.

Its a compromise situation in which both parties concerns are in a dead-lock against each others, and largely equal each other out.

Barring restricting CONCORD even further or raising wardec costs (which are high already), I dont see any rational solution to this while being fair to both sides. Especially since its crucial to maintain means of HS player aggression.

NPC corps are the real obstacle, that handicaps altering the parameters of wardecs, and HS aggression.

Alongside and concurrent to that, there is the CODE issue.

Dramatic as it sounds, Im for allowing wardeccs on NPC corps, that extends only to its player members as capsuleers.
Inorder to do that, however, Rookies must first be dissassociated into a wardec immune "New Capsuleer Training" corp, membership of which expires at end of trial, and forces them into a (wardeccable) NPC corp of their choice.

After this, HS aggression in terms of CONCORD reaction, wardec costs and corp abandoning as a result, can be re-evaluated.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#75 - 2015-10-05 16:36:26 UTC
Effort is probably meant to infer the various ways in which you can not present yourself as a huge defenseless piñatas and to work to make player versus player conflicts engaging and fun for yourself and your corpmates.

This is of course the idealistic view based on the best way to play the game, what you described is what carebears actually do based on their idea of how they should play the game.
Salvos Rhoska
#76 - 2015-10-05 16:47:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
As to CODE (and unrelated to wardecs), the methods they utilize demonstrate an irrationality in HS mechanics.

Imagine the following:
- I drive around in a city center, on a bicycle, armed with a pistol (with my buddies sometimes). I shoot anyone I want in the head, loot their property, and wait for police to come and kill me. Then I ressurect, and do it all over again.

Whats the point in HS ruleset, and CONCORD, if I can do this repeatedly for substantial gains, with no meaningful sanction nor loss?

Its inane to argue that CONCORD constitutes a risk, because its inane in the first place to blow up a ship if it costs you more than you gain.

There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking, in and of itself.
There is something wrong in the easy repetition of this for commensurate profits.
It obviates the function of CONCORD and HS ruleset.

I move for a more dramatic drop modifier in security status on illegal aggression in HS.

This still allows for illegal HS aggression meta, but commensurately, rationally, increases the risk/reward quotient as measured against having to regain that standing again on a given character so as to do so again without becoming a target to everyone else as well as faction police NPCs (CONCORD being left out of this).

This is good in a number of ways:
1) It rationalizes illegal HS aggression against the cost/effort of regaining sec status.
2) It rationalizes illegal HS aggression, as other players can aggress the criminal.
3) It creates more player content, as players can aggress gankers who have not restored sec status.

CONCORD is an NPC element. Faction police are an NPC element.
By applying a more dramatic drop to sec status to illegal activities in HS, this puts reaction in the hands of players, rather than NPCs.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-10-05 16:51:46 UTC
La Rynx wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:

You don't care about the war declaration system working properly or being balanced. You just want it nerfed to punish the people who use it.


And after all this time, hopefully CCP knows better than to listen to people who just want to heap punitive mechanics on other people's playstyles, rather than actually put effort into the game themselves.


Oooooh, codie playstyle is punished when broken and massivly abused game mechanics are repaired!
CCP should better be repair the game instead...

Anywhere else but not your gamestyle...
ho ho ho, how sweet.

To bad , even in an evil dark harsh EvE universe, baby seal clubbers are wusses and whiners.
Especially, when they condemn baby seals as the worst enemy that can happen to their world.
Man i am really laughing hard right know.

I beg you calmly:
Oh and please keep the doll and show us where the babyseals bit you!


Spoken just like a clubbed baby seal.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#78 - 2015-10-05 16:54:39 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
As to CODE (and unrelated to wardecs), the methods they utilize demonstrate an irrationality in HS mechanics.

Imagine the following:
- I drive around in a city center, on a bicycle, armed with a pistol (with my buddies sometimes). I shoot anyone I want in the head, loot their property, and wait for police to come and kill me. Then I ressurect, and do it all over again.

Whats the point in HS ruleset, and CONCORD, if I can do this repeatedly for substantial gains, with no meaningful sanction nor loss?

Its inane to argue that CONCORD constitutes a risk, because its inane in the first place to blow up a ship if it costs you more than you gain.

There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking, in and of itself.
There is something wrong in the easy repetition of this for commensurate profits.
It obviates the function of CONCORD and HS ruleset.

I move for a more dramatic drop modifier in security status on illegal aggression in HS.

This still allows for illegal HS aggression meta, but commensurately, rationally, increases the risk/reward quotient as measured against having to regain that standing again on a given character so as to do so again without becoming a target to evrryone else as well as system security NPCs.


RL comparisons against a video game. Mmmm, tasty.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#79 - 2015-10-05 16:55:49 UTC
I didn't realize baby seals talk like gibbering imbeciles.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#80 - 2015-10-05 16:58:27 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I didn't realize baby seals talk like gibbering imbeciles.


Only after being clubbed. Beforehand it's all like Flipper and ****. Squeaks and chirps.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.