Player Features and Ideas Discussion

The only time I have seen a Freighter in nullsec (not a Jump Freighter, but straight Freighter) we killed it.

Actually, I tackled it with my interceptor as I passed it in travel just by chance. About 5 minutes later my fleet arrived (had already stood down from our roam, so quickly reformed) and we began killing it. However we were interrupted by a larger fleet, who also spotted it in travel, and they got the final kill and loot.

Freighters don't travel in null or low generally. The risks are much greater.

There might be situations within an Alliance's sov space where they feel secure enough to get a freighter to and from a jump bridge, but Freighters flying through null/low and using gates just doesn't happen because they are not very defendable. Seriously, any alliance big enough to defend one just uses a jump freighter, which is quicker, so less boring for the support, and much safer.

In general, Freighters are much less defendable in low/null than they are in highsec:

- in highsec a freighter can dock in any station, in nullsec if you are suggesting they travel any reasonable distance they probably can't dock at all for most of that

- in highsec, only dedicated gank groups will attack a freighter, in low/null everyone will attack it

- in highsec, it's easy to watchlist the main ganking and bumping Corpd/Characters and scout the route to see where they are. In low/null every single ship you see is a concern because they can and will, all attack it.

I really wish more Freighters just travelled through low/null. But it doesn't happen because the risks are too great.

Okay, cool. Go live in null then. Nothing bad ever happens there.




People still manage to lose JFs in null and low to hilariously preventable shenanigans.

If there was no ganking in Hi Sec, then the opportunity cost for hauling would be zero, which would result in even worse profit margins, as well as no way to differentiate a good hauler from a bad one, which makes for a really bad game. It is imperative that ganking remain a thing that can happen in Hi Sec, for the health of the economy and content generation.

Echoing many others, if they have 40 players and you have one, they should win. It would be a hilariously terrible game if the efforts of one player could trump 40 coordinated ones.

Here's a challenge. You don't like gankers? Ok. Let's use emergent gameplay to sour their day. rather than hiding behind mechanics. Get everyone you know that also doesn't like gankers, unite them under a single banner. Everyone makes a new alt, and issues hauling contracts to them - just as long as it is wrapped properly so when they cargo scan you, you appear potentially juicy, but in fact have like...a can of quafe in a cargo can. Put the contract contents into a t1 hauler, and set the biggest waypoint autopilot route you can through every notorious choke system, and release your alt into the wild on autopilot. You have made a decoy.

Now, if enough of these decoys get released, eventually actually careless players will be safer, and you could potentially frustrate the vexors that kill said t1 industrials; why are so many of my ganks decoys? They don't get actual loot, they don't get actual tears. You have just taken the fight to them, just with an awfully circuitous method. Costs like 6 clicks and like, 4m isk tops.

But again, I see that as academic. It would be interesting if you could roll with the idea and make it work, but good luck herding cats.

Less like a ping pong ball and more like a baseball or something (which will cause your head to move). To give an example of numbers, a Providence has a mass of 900 million kg. A Machariel has a mass of 94.7 million kg. Fit with a 500mn MWD, it will then have a mass of 144.7 million kg, which is a decent fraction of the freighter's mass. Any sort of impact between those two bodies would have a fairly large impact on the larger body (which is also why bumping doesn't cause damage; realistically the kinetic damage from such an impact would destroy the bumper and the freighter, and you'd probably see gankers just fit out a cheap T1 battleship for speed and make suicide runs on expensive freighters).



Just wait for CONCORD to kill them and make that entire support fleet logi.

Or just get creative. A suicide, smartbombing battleship landing on the Catalysts will likely destroy all of them rather quickly (they have zero tank when gank-fit), well before CONCORD will arrive.

Or just do what others have said, scout ahead; use information you have available and figure out if jumping in to a system is a good idea or not. Back when I hauled I'd have Dotlan's radar feature up so I could see recent kills, as well as planning my route through it's navigation tool so I could see if there were any unusual spikes on my route. If it didn't look safe, I didn't go in to the system and I waited it out. I also sprinkled safes and other bookmarks along my common routes so that I'd have a lot of options if I did run in to a bad situation, and I didn't leave my freighter out in space when it didn't need to be - if I was scouting ahead, it was docked at a station. It was a little bit more of a pain than a lot of people go through, but that's why they were the ones dying. I also didn't have a support fleet with me... but to be honest, if a few dozen players are getting together to kill you, you've got no right to expect to live no matter what you're flying and you either have to bring more friends (which, 40 logi is going to make a Freighter hard to kill just about anywhere), or just try not to put yourself in a situation where a few dozen people are going to try to kill you. It's not hard.

And I mean, sure. Eventually you might make a mistake or things happen and you die. But it's Eve. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose, and if you're doing something to make money - make sure there's enough profit in it to pay for the occasional loss. If there's not, maybe you should try a different profession. There's plenty of ways to make money in the game, they don't all involve flying gigantic targets mindlessly through space. Unless you just like flying freighters - which, hey, to each their own. But, again. This is Eve. If you fly something, eventually you're going to lose it. Even with all my precautions I still gave my freighter/Orca snarky names so I could poke fun at whoever ganked it.

That's a terrible option.
Not because it wouldn't work (though I don't think it would work that well), but for several other reasons.

1) 5-6km range - not much and likely won't take out much.

2) It's VERY difficult to accomplish this in the short time it takes to pull off a gank.

3) If the bump ship is still on grid (which they likely are) you have done nothing but get yourself blown up and slow the gank down by 18 minutes at best.

4) What you'd destroy vs what you'd lose wouldn't be very effective on your part. Maybe you get 5 destroyers (8 at best), but you'd lose a SB battleship. Likely a 5-1 or greater loss ratio on your part.

5) You shouldn't have to resort to criminal acts in order to stop criminal acts.

7) If you pop a pod, you're F'd as far as standings go.

8) The gankers will gank anything near their target, if they even think that pilot might try to stop them or take loot from the wreck.
They would definitely pop a BS for coming near their target.

You don't. Just use webs to get out of it, it's a grossly overpowered trick. But if you want to deal with the bumping, which is explicitly NOT a criminal act, you will have to act preemptively, by ganking him.

You just have to show enough backbone to accept the same consequences as gankers do. If you aren't willing to do that, you deserve the Wonka Bonus Prize.

You get nothing.

Bumping and concord are stupid ....bumping is just lame and we killed a lot of stuff by bumping it from one place to another it just feels cheap to me anyway .
Concord is just bad and should probably be removed and replaced with some Ingame mechanic so players could do it and defend dangerous high sec space without breaking the law giving everyone more PVP ...everyone happy now ? 😁

Hmm I Think players given the right tools could do better than concord as they should not be fooled repeatable by the same tactics and may actually add challenge to a part of the game that is pointless
Concord is just a ISk sink it prevents nothing I'm unsure why people like it surely a more fluid ,intelligent enemy would benefit gameplay ? Cop chases lol ,escapes ,spying ... I dunno but npc concord adds little except somehow magically appearing and having magic ships

Just thoughts don't hate ,appreciate 😁

Not missing the point at all, just making a counter one.

I understand perfectly that based on a theoretical look at the mechanics, Freighters in null/low look more defendable than in highsec. However in practice, that just isn't the case.

If it was the case, we'd actually see it. Jump Freighters exist in order to make hauling safer, not just as a more convenient alternative.

Theory is great and all, but if it doesn't match reality, then it's very limited.

Saying that Freighters are more defendable in low/null because you can shoot the opposition is true in theory, but in practice they are less defendable because of the reasons I outlined in the previous post (ie. Everyone will attack the Freighter, not only gank groups; Scouting a route works only to the extent that it is clear when it's scouted, interceptors align and warp much faster than Freighters so the risk that someone else will come along while you are travelling is high; hot drops on Freighters would be common if Freighter movement in low/null was common, etc.).

Since Phoebe there has been at least one Super Capital/Titan kill every single week.

If you think defending a billion ISK Freighter is easier in low/null when 100 Billion ISK Titans are dying regularly, then there is something wrong simply because common sense says that doesn't seem right.

So yeah. Theory is great and all, but where are the Freighters and how many Freighter movements happen safely in highsec, lowsec and nullsec?

The numbers alone indicate that highsec is safer because people won't take their Freighter in low or null.

As a result, it would seem there is something wrong with the theory.

This is incorrect. The most effective way to counter a gank is to simply be smart enough to not make yourself a target.

If you scout the gate, see a Mach on the gate, and jump a freighter through anyway, then it is entirely your fault you got bumped and ganked.
If you didn't scout the gate and jump a freighter through anyway, then it is entirely your fault you got bumped and ganked.

Regardless of your opinion on ganking or bumping, the fact remains that it is entirely possible to avoid becoming a victim of either of those activities. If people would stop being dumb ***** when they fly loot pinatas, then therE wouldn't be this imaginary "problem" with bumping and ganking.

Here's a suggestion. CCP needs to implement a filter that automatically blocks threads like this one and gives the people who try to post them a 24hr criminal timer in game.

It's interesting that people are defended this so hard because meh sandbox! According to them, the sandbox only exists because of high sec ganking.