Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Again. Read. You seem to have a problem with that.


I specifically state I am not suggesting a specific fix. I am merely stating that the mechanics are old and clunky and need addressed as they lend to an imbalance in exposure assumed by both sides. You suggested -10's not docking in high sec, I responded that that could be a viable middle ground. I also suggested that with the incoming of Citadels and the rest these structures, this would be an opportune time to look at these mechanics.


Again. I suggest you read.

I read what you wrote and would dispute your premise.
You seem to base it upon a freighter running solo. If said freighter had a webbing friend, then exposure as you put it, is down to mere seconds within that 15 jumps.

Unlocking. Well unless you're at war, the only hassle is clutter.
Warping to a gate. No real risk, warp to zero has been a thing for quite some time.
Warping from a gate. Let's be conservative and say less than 3 seconds, with a webbing friend.

So let's round it and say exposure is 45 seconds. Damn you're right, balance here is way out of wack. Ganking should be made easier.

So you're suggesting it's more than 45 seconds?

I've not even suggested you want a nerf. I'm just trying to assess your stance.
I disagree with it and would add one more thing. Whilst that freighter is exposed for 45 seconds, at no point is it likely the faction police will turn up and attack. Unless you're carry illicit goods of course.

I really don't follow your logic in this. All I see is that one friend can almost guarantee safe travel. Even when bumped, said friend could help you out of it. But the likelihood of being bumped when being webbed, isn't even worth working out.

That said, I'd rather have the current tried and tested system, than some new half baked poor substitute tbh.

Thread reported for trolling.

You also. Bong Down.

Clunky mechanics are the fact you can take down a freighter in high sec and that freighter has less defensive options than one in null sec.

Re-read OP and come back. Then disagree with the above line with a straight face. I dare you. I Double dare you.

But all really know that faction police are not an issue for someone in a catalyst. And not an issue at all if you're not -10.

That wasn't a response to you OP... but this is.

I read the OP. I thought it was a giant whine-filled baby-fest.

A freighter, by itself, has NO defensive actions except one; Warp away.

Let's break this down for you.

A freighter in hi-sec can scout gates to look for camps.
A freighter in low/null can also scout gates to look for camps.

A freighter in hi-sec can have a friend or alt web him into warp faster.
A freighter in low/null can also have a friend or alt web him into warp faster.

A freighter in hi-sec can have a fleet of friendly escorts that can remote repair him.
A freighter in low/null can also have a fleet of friendly escorts to remote repair him.

Hmmm I'm running out of ideas... what can be done in lowsec that can't be done in hi-sec?
Ah yes, a freighter's escort fleet (assuming he has one) can pre-emptively shoot any gate campers in low/null without being destroyed by concord.

So how is this "clunky" mechanics? I'm pretty sure you and Kenrailae are the same person yea? Because you keep using that word, "clunky". Without giving any meaningful explanation for what you mean.

What mechanics are you referring to? What is "clunky"?

Use your words. Make an argument. Better yet, make a SUGGESTION for a feature or idea.

I actually agree that there's a problem with freighter-ganking. However, you are so bad at making any kind of coherent argument, all I can think when reading this thread is "what? go away crybaby".

Also just for good measure... this statement is false.

If you have a support fleet of 20 Guardians, 40 catalysts at 400dps each will not be able to kill you before Concord destroys them all.

Yes I know 20 Guardians is ridiculous for a freighter escort, but I have to point out a falsehood when I see one.

My stance is that the current system is itself half baked and a poor substitute, and CCP can do better, especially if they get player input on it, as there are some very knowledgeable people who frequent these forums, yourself and several others included. The mentality that it isn't broken because you have to break it for it to be usable is mind boggling. The best way to effectively guarantee your safety is to attack yourself/friend? There has to be a better way than that. Similar mechanics/oversights when in a 'PVP' context are usually abused until they are corrected by CCP, but this set hasn't been, and it has been abused and abused and abused, by both 'sides' for quite some time. See Sentry drones and Assign drone feature.


Everything from the webbing of a freighter to make it 'safe' to the continued and targeted bumping sans consequence or way 'out' is just bad mechanics. Well done to those who use them while they're here, but should they still be here?

*Necessity for Webbing alts be they by duel or same corp
*bumping, legal and fine, but bumping 200k off a gate to play concord mechanics?
*Engaging in criminal conduct on alternate gates or in alternate belts to play Concord response times
*Relative little risk component involved in conducting criminal activity. These mechanics are well documented and easy to take advantage of. We know how fast Concord will show up and know how much DPS it takes to do this or that
*Free docking, cloning, and storage in stations while flagged as a criminal and wanted by the 'Police', and again, attacking a freighter buddy and getting away with it, because of clunky mechanics
*Standings hits/lack thereof for committing crimes in Empire space
*insert any of the other questionable or overly simple mechanics which result in poor gameplay


Yeah, these are the mechanics as they are, and again, well played for using them. But these mechanics are out of date, and very simple. They can be much better.



Evading Concord is Bannable, no one is disputing that. I'm also not disputing the fate of a freighter should he solo 15 jumps, or even soloing 1 jump at the wrong time with too much cargo. But it seems just as much evading Concord if one is playing their spawn mechanics? Likewise having to attack a friend or self to make them safe is absurd, and a questionable use of those mechanics. Another mechanic that makes little sense is how standings do or don't work in relation to high sec and criminal activity. If one is continuously committing crimes in an area of space, shouldn't that faction begin to dislike them as well? The notion of High sec suggests that the Empires maintain some law and order. Yet a player can continuously break that law and order and only get in trouble with Concord? There are better ways to do these things.


The inclusion of Faction police as a response to conducting a criminal act is not an unexpected result, nor something that can be listed as a draw back. It's an accepted and expected response from the same mechanics that are used and abused by both parties in response to committing a criminal act.



In summation, yes what is in place 'works well enough.' But that doesn't say it works well, nor couldn't be much better. A freighter or frigate carrying something worth ganking without taking necessary steps to protect himself should die. But there should be more options available other than 'let's have a friend attack me.' Suggesting use Red Frog doesn't change the problems with the system, it just pushes them off onto someone else. Suggesting use low sec routes again, doesn't change the problems, it avoids them. Suggesting use a different route and Use logi friends also doesn't address the problems, more avoid and deter them. We usually suggest to someone tired of getting ganked any of these solutions, and yes, they provide a solution to that person's problem, but they don't address the overall shortsightedness and scope of the mechanics behind the 'problem.' I just feel that those mechanics could be significantly better, and make game play for both the ganker and gankee much better, involved and reliant on the significance of choice, and not as much the definitive Yes or no aspect of it in its current state.