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Rig substitution for additional fitting slots.

Author
Daugan
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1 - 2015-09-29 19:38:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Daugan
This may be a terrible idea, but had some interesting thoughts over in tweet fleet.

Basic concept, 175 calibration cost (Not sure if it really needs a T2 version) in 3 separate variations. The rig adds a high/medium/low slot based on the variation of the rig used.

Possible balancing options could include heat sensitivity being increased in the added slots to avoid utterly batshit ancillary fits.

Operational Enhancement Rig- High. 175 Calibration cost, adds +1 High Slot Drawback ; 25 % increased heat damage

Operational Enhancement Rig- Mid. 175 Calibration cost, adds +1 Mid Slot ; 25 % increased heat damage

Operational Enhancement Rig- Low. 175 Calibration cost, adds +1 Small Slot ; 25 % increased heat damage

Maybe make jury rigging relevant? Each level reduces the above penalty by 15%?

Edit: potential thought to require sleeper components in the rig construction, given the similarity to T3 cruisers.
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-09-29 19:51:05 UTC
why not just 350 calibration for t1 and 250 calibration for t2. No penalty.

You can only fit one. Pay more for more leftover calibration for other rigs. Add a single high mid low that you want. I would find these immensely valuable on frigates and Dessie's as well as some amarr cruisers just lacking a single mid to make them great.
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-09-29 19:54:47 UTC
Kasia en Tilavine wrote:
why not just 350 calibration for t1 and 250 calibration for t2. No penalty.

You can only fit one. Pay more for more leftover calibration for other rigs. Add a single high mid low that you want. I would find these immensely valuable on frigates and Dessie's as well as some amarr cruisers just lacking a single mid to make them great.


You know what, I really like this compromise. 350 might be a bit much, perhaps maybe 300 so you can at least fit the full set of rigs if you really wanted to? I do like that it to have a higher number though so we don't get into hilarious broken configs.
Daugan
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#4 - 2015-09-29 19:55:55 UTC
Im absolutely down to adjust the calibration and drawback considerations, and would love feedback on it.

I'm just tired of standard CDFE and Trimark fits.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-09-29 20:04:27 UTC
So full sperg ratting carrier with 5 drone control unit can now also field a cyno?
Arla Sarain
#6 - 2015-09-29 20:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
I would imagine this would have conflicts with the UI, as it only supports up to 8 slots on each rack.

And I would imagine smaller ships would find these more valuable than anything else.

Also fear faction frigs would find these overly useful. Since they have bonuses high enough to only require 2 turrets. This leaves them with an opportunity for an additional utility high. Drone ships too. Stacking up on neuts is an extremely powerlful trait...
Daugan
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#7 - 2015-09-29 20:06:53 UTC
If you want to drop a shitload of your tank, sure.


Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#8 - 2015-09-29 20:16:54 UTC
cool idea. The fact that it requires most of your calibration and only gives a slot with no extra fitting to fill the slot it shouldn't be 2 crazy broken. Also for the fact that normally you can't go over 8 slots per location that limit could still be enforced. Not many ships have 8 meds or lows which is where I think this rig would be the most useful as neuts in the high come at alot of fitting cost.
Daugan
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#9 - 2015-09-29 20:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Daugan
If 8 slot's is a hard limit that can't be corrected with the UI, it ~in theory~ shouldn't be too difficult to gather up a list of ship id's with 8 mid slots or 8 low slots and bar them from fitting the specific rig variant.
Mavros Pete
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-09-29 21:05:13 UTC
Daugan wrote:
If 8 slot's is a hard limit that can't be corrected with the UI, it ~in theory~ shouldn't be too difficult to gather up a list of ship id's with 8 mid slots or 8 low slots and bar them from fitting the specific rig variant.


Why?
If you look closely at the sheep fitting window, you will notice that between the med and low slots, there is a small gap. That could actually become the magical ninth module.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#11 - 2015-09-29 21:48:02 UTC
-1

Because balancing ships is hard and this throws what balance we do have out the window.
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#12 - 2015-09-29 21:55:36 UTC
You mean we could add more than eight turrets to a gank fit tornado?

Daugan
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#13 - 2015-09-29 22:22:47 UTC
Not turret slots. Highslots definitely should be restricted to extra utils
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-09-29 22:40:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
ShahFluffers wrote:
-1

Because balancing ships is hard and this throws what balance we do have out the window.


This basically. Slot layout is how CCP does balance. My usual rant....if looking at your fit and going just one more slot would have this uber this was probably intentional. Some seem to forget CCP does from the player base. Some of them quite good as their name before they became CCP some_new_name. they know how to work eft pretty damn good.


Surprised they didn't say well you lose a rig slot as downside, the other threads before this have.

My usual example. Caldari I tend to have at least one shield rig fit.


I take this here rig, get +1 mid, and get to fit another shield mod. I will let op research resists of a shield rig (t1 or 2) versus another shield mod. Even with stacking you make out better in the latter case. My shield rig/mod combo usually tied to invul + say therm hards and 1 em rig. Other mids for sniping and such. Or put the thermal in rig and EM is the hard. Either way....this would get me 3 slot hard tank vice the 2 slot I usually run. Stacking not killing me too much.

Basically I don't "lose" the rig slot here. I upgrade what would have been a resist rig to a better hardener. OP, run rokh at all skills 5 in eft. Or other ship that gets resists boosts per level. Should see some nice resists boosts there, I did.


The heat damage....not really a ding. Max thermodynamics, max nano paste skills, and mitigate that a lot. That's for people who actually cook mods regularly. Those of who don't cook often, nothing to see here really.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-09-30 01:57:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
This has been discussed before. The solution I came up with, and probably the most generous you'll get many to agree with, is for the rig to cost a rig slot and calibration in order to remove a mid or low slot and offer the other. You pay to move a slot, not to add one.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-09-30 02:54:42 UTC
Daugan wrote:
Im absolutely down to adjust the calibration and drawback considerations, and would love feedback on it.

I'm just tired of standard CDFE and Trimark fits.


How about improve other rig variants bt changing bonuses though you could consider them as well and not only extenders and trimarks?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#17 - 2015-09-30 07:27:30 UTC
If this proposal were introduced you can forget about balance.

Not supported.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Daugan
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2015-09-30 07:33:05 UTC
and you don't think having to sacrifice a rig slot, and ~half of your available calibration for a single slot isn't a bit of a major trade off?
Iain Cariaba
#19 - 2015-09-30 07:48:12 UTC
Daugan wrote:
and you don't think having to sacrifice a rig slot, and ~half of your available calibration for a single slot isn't a bit of a major trade off?

No, I think it utterly destroys any and all sense of balance to the game.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#20 - 2015-09-30 07:50:05 UTC
There was a rig which added a mid when rigs were first on the test server... It did not make it onto TQ.

The issue of the 8 slot limit was a factor but more importantly a midslot was far more valuable than a rig slot and the rig seriously damaged balance (not to mention adding a horrendous number of additional variables to consider in future balancing). I don't think enough has changed to make this a good idea.
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