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Warfare & Tactics

 
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FW suggestion: items only available at certain tiers

Author
Syrilian
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-09-29 03:27:02 UTC
So I noticed something wonky the other day in FW: it can actually be advantageous for your faction to be at a lower tier. It takes more time to grind LP, sure but the value of items skyrocket to the point that when I mention that we are about to go into t1, people say "great, our items will be worth more." To combat this, I suggest making certain items available on the LP store only if that faction is at a certain tier. That would prevent this problem I believe.

What do you all think?
Ria Nieyli
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2015-09-29 08:46:33 UTC
I think that those people aren't very good at maths.
Lord MacAdder
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-09-29 16:09:44 UTC
They say that because they've already earned the LP and have a load saved up. When they hit T1 they wait for prices to increase and then cash out.
Fornost Fornostsen
Global Isk Network
Pen Is Out
#4 - 2015-09-30 07:16:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Fornost Fornostsen
Syrilian wrote:
What do you all think?


When a militia reach an higher tier, the LP/ISK ratio falls down because while the demand for items from the LP store remains the same, there is obviously a greater supply.

Your suggestion will worsen the problem, because with these items "available only at a certain tier" we will face a scarcity issue when a militia falls under that "certain tier".

People that now save LPs at higher tiers to cash them at lower tiers will simply switch buying those items when available thanks to the tier, and will sell them at lower tiers.
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#5 - 2015-10-07 14:00:49 UTC
it would not really change anything
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
Villore Accords
#6 - 2015-10-07 14:48:47 UTC
Tier level is already managed by various groups of players to a degree. No need to give them more ways to gather profit from it.
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-10-10 08:00:53 UTC
I think the easiest option would be for CCP to just reset the FW player's groups LP to 0.

There are literally trillions of LP floating around from farmers and the likes who would make any vital changes absolutely worthless. For the people sitting on billions of LP, give them a super duper medal with a big picture of a toy bear. The description can say something, something "gamed FW mechanics", very large vagina...something something risk avoidance trained to 5, uses officer stabs something soemthing carebear who likes people running trains on them.

Then they can do FW LP correctly so it doens't become farmersville again; i.e. lowering all tier LP payout signficantly and closing the gap between tiers in such a way that being in tier 1 doesn't ruin you. Then I wouldn't mind seeing something that encourages you to be in higher tiers, like unlocking more store optons, as that would encourage system pushes a whole lot more.

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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#8 - 2015-10-10 09:42:10 UTC
Tier one doesnt ruin you. Higher 2 tiers do get a bit silly in comparison though.

I also doubt any farmer sits on piles of lp, more likely they just have mods sat in jita.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#9 - 2015-10-10 10:22:26 UTC
There is no doubt huge amounts of lp amassed on some accounts. Certain factions will no doubt be in worse shape then others. But some accounts will go inactive before it all is spent.

They could make all the current fw lp legacy lp (locked at the current items at the current exchange) and reintroduce the cash out system. The cash outs don't need to be as dramatic as inferno. Plus they would need to do some tweaks to make sure militias wouldn't be inclined to flip their own systems with Alts.

But other than that the cash out system had allot going for it.

1 rewarded militia wide Coordination
2 rewarded loyalty to faction instead of encouraging faction flipping
3 gave a clear incentive to hit higher tiers that would continue to build up over time.

I don't think there are enough items unique to each militia to accomplish these goals by simply having some items unlocked at higher tiers.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#10 - 2015-10-10 15:04:32 UTC
Cearain wrote:
There is no doubt huge amounts of lp amassed on some accounts. Certain factions will no doubt be in worse shape then others. But some accounts will go inactive before it all is spent.

They could make all the current fw lp legacy lp (locked at the current items at the current exchange) and reintroduce the cash out system. The cash outs don't need to be as dramatic as inferno. Plus they would need to do some tweaks to make sure militias wouldn't be inclined to flip their own systems with Alts.

But other than that the cash out system had allot going for it.

1 rewarded militia wide Coordination
2 rewarded loyalty to faction instead of encouraging faction flipping
3 gave a clear incentive to hit higher tiers that would continue to build up over time.

I don't think there are enough items unique to each militia to accomplish these goals by simply having some items unlocked at higher tiers.


Cerain, arguing for a return to the time where FW was unarguably at its all time most broken state. Which is doubly bad since its in a pretty good spot atm.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-10-11 13:20:09 UTC
Not really a problem. The average militia line member that is not sitting on piles of LP still gets much more ISK/hour in higher Tiers, even factoring in the price drops.

Instead, I still think CCP should increase the LP payouts from PVP relative to plexing and especially missions.

I admit I'm totally biased against missions since I never did them, but it's a fact they don't affect the war in any way.


And yes, I know the LP-to-killmail-value can be gamed currently (though those who go too far get caught), but that's a poor excuse for CCP not to fix it: just manually update (a couple of times per year max) the killmail value of items that are not traded daily in multiple regions.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#12 - 2015-10-16 01:36:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Oreb Wing
I agree with Crosi about the current state of the FW mechanics. Seeing the way Null is suffering through changes atm makes me hesitate to ask for further iterations to payouts. The issue isn't not minding low tier, it's that farmers tend to hibernate or swing to allied factions whenever LP payouts are not favourable in comparison to their higher tier levels. Locking out certain items that are normally in high demand does nothing to curb the problem or recognize the root of the issue, which is not so much how MUCH lp players have stored, but HOW do people accumulate such massive reserves? Offensive plexes have been leveled out so that you can't game their passive counters with a fast frigate in a large complex. Missions, on the other hand, have not changed and they get worse (or further exploited) the higher the tier. This creates a snowball effect that it becomes incredibly easy to sustain high tiers with relatively little/reduced time investment. This momentum continues until those few that pump LP into hubs have gorged themselves to the point they are too tired to eat more and the farmers (who never donate or contribute anything) allow the tier to fall. It stays there until the market numbers are alluring enough for the fat bears to come out of hibernation to cash in. You do not see this too much in Gallente, as we have a broken NPC that jamms the **** out of you in anything but a sensor t3 or expensive (and very vulnerable) sentry boat. Therefore the majority of our farmers and pilots stick to plex warfare for LP, which is why we have a much more vibrant ecosystem for PVP in our warzone, and possibly why the Squids have a hell of a time failscading when they touch t4, and as many of their pilots turn to missioning, we never quit the plex war.

Cearain wrote:

I don't think there are enough items unique to each militia to accomplish these goals by simply having some items unlocked at higher tiers.


Datacores are unique enough to each faction that you will see wildly disparate price ranges when you look for those available only through DC agents and particular faction LP. Apart from ships, if it weren't for the ridiculous NPC tag requirements for some modules, you would see those more often too. Problem is some will continue to be rare because even Gallente missions are tailored to avoid the famous perma jam npc's; i used to do missions and had an overwhelming amount of Amarr NPC tags that I would just give to my RL friend in Minmatar.