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loki and vaga for L4's
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Jabs OwlsRotate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-01-04 22:48:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jabs OwlsRotate
i was wondering, after getting half way through cruiser 5, how good are loki's and vagabonds, or even munins at running missions compared to a mael? because i'm rather sick of the speed the mael lacks and i generally prefer cruiser sized hulls.
any feedback is welcome! Big smile

also don't say get a mach P i'm not very experienced or have great support skills yet so i'm not going to risk a ship over 1bill

EDIT: i mission in amarr space so will mostly will be fighting blood/sansha
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#2 - 2012-01-04 22:56:00 UTC
A well fitted loki isn't much cheaper than a cheaply fitted mach and probably less forgiving (get webbed/target painted and you may be in trouble - especially with poor support skills).

Would it be possible to run L4's with any of these ships? I guess it would. would it be slow and tedious - for sure.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Jabs OwlsRotate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-01-04 23:04:21 UTC
well atm, i don't run missions just for isk, i also do it for fun as i'm not skilled or experience enough to get into incursion fleets and i'm not always a fan of pvp (only the odd frig roam). i don't really mind about efficiency too much, just wondering if they can do it rather well.

And for the loki i expected that answer, but flying cruisers for me is more fun and a loki seems alot of fun, like a lego ship P. i also do like my AC's rather alot so training another race isn't in my ideal option either.

another think is, how fast can a vaga go with an AB or is it better when fitted with a MWD, if so, how fast will it go then? Big smile
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-01-04 23:08:17 UTC  |  Edited by: 1-Up Mushroom
I've used Vaga to blitz L4's and it rocks for that, really brings in the LPs

EDIT: Plus minmatar's T2 resists help against Sansha/Bloods
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Jabs OwlsRotate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-01-04 23:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jabs OwlsRotate
thanks mushroom, i did notice that the vaga has amazing em/therm resists, but is it required to have t2 guns for it to run them effectively? and i was thinking of using an AB and the high base resists with a small SB to tank but i'm not sure if it could tank all of the missions, but then again, i just need more experience to find out.

also losing a vaga will hurt my wallet similar to losing a mael (only 1 so far Big smile) so there forgiving on the wallet, unlike a mach/loki.

EDIT: i haven't heard much about the minun, is it that bad? or do people just chose the vaga over it because of the speed?
Goose99
#6 - 2012-01-04 23:23:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
SB is paper, it'll die in fire.

Same with vaga, to a lesser extent. Those are exactly the kind of boats not to use in missions if you're "inexperienced." Mach, on the other hand, has copious amount of buffer and cap, and is much more forgiving to mistakes. It may be expensive, but there's plenty of time and room to correct a mistake if you make one. Something like vaga is still expensive, and can almost instapop if you mess up, even against laser rats. You'll receive plenty of Guristas, and even some Angel missions, in Amar space.

Use a nice big Mael if you're cheap.
Jabs OwlsRotate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-01-04 23:29:50 UTC
thanks for the reply about the vaga, didn't know it could be insta popped Shocked, i guess i should just use my mael and save for a mach then. but i am worried about the base resists of a mach of 0/20 em/therm as my mael still gets hit alot of damage, but has a rep bonus, is the machs speed enough to reduce incoming damage?

but i don't see why i cant use a vaga if i mission with my friend P variety is the spice of life!
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#8 - 2012-01-04 23:30:48 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
SB is paper, it'll die in fire.




I think he's referring to a small shield booster, not a stealthbomber.

I agree on the part about experience though.

Jabs: You'll certainly be fine with some experience and if you handpick the missions you run with the HAC (just as mushroom said - those you can blitz or at least don't have to grind through lots of HP should be fine) and do the others in the Mael/decline them. Hell - I've run L4's in assault frigs.

I suggest to get acquainted with the ships, you should maybe run a few l3's first, but then you should be fine.

You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
SpaceSquirrels
#9 - 2012-01-04 23:35:14 UTC
Loki arty sub can't use drones... 650-720's better for missions than 220s or 425s.
Jabs OwlsRotate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-01-04 23:35:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jabs OwlsRotate
[/quote]
you should maybe run a few l3's first, but then you should be fine.

[/quote]

is that statement aimed at running l3's in a vaga to get used to it? or to do them anyway for more experience? because i used to run l3's in a cane just fine.

also, i heard the loki is useful in incursions thanks to its webs, is this true? and would the webs be of any use other than pvp, like WH's or something?

just gathering information to help me progress atm Big smile knowledge is power.

EDIT: quote failed Oops
Goose99
#11 - 2012-01-04 23:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
Jabs OwlsRotate wrote:

you should maybe run a few l3's first, but then you should be fine.

is that statement aimed at running l3's in a vaga to get used to it? or to do them anyway for more experience? because i used to run l3's in a cane just fine.

also, i heard the loki is useful in incursions thanks to its webs, is this true? and would the webs be of any use other than pvp, like WH's or something?

just gathering information to help me progress atm Big smile knowledge is power.

EDIT: quote failed Oops


Lvl 3 has much lower dps, although the rats hit better. Lvl4 BS rats hit badly, but dmg can spike. You're happily speed tanking, taking almost no dmg, and suddenly it spikes and surprise you.

Loki used to be in high demand due to its webs. Then people start flying pimp Bhaalgorns, for long ranged webs plus much higher dps/volley. The current FOTM is legion - high tracking, high dmg projection, decent volley, no webs, for contesting NCOs. When you web a rat, you also web it for the other fleet that's about to take your pay.
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#12 - 2012-01-04 23:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
I meant you should just run a few l3s in a vaga first to get used to the ships behaviour and capabilities.

As for above question on using an MWD or AB - it depends on the mission, but AB should be easier in pve as you can effectively sig tank and should be able to still outrun NPCs just fine and is more forgiving if you have poor navigation and cap skills.

Concerning incursions: I hear lokis are used in them to web - but there's certainly someone more competent to answer this question as I've only run incursions when they were released to check them out and haven't bothered with them ever since.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#13 - 2012-01-04 23:49:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Julia Connor
Use 650mm or 720mm if you have to use a loki/vaga because 425mm sucks ballz in missions or even better get a legion or tengu. Problem solved.
A mael should fair a lot better if you have T2/Faction tank and T2 Gyros. Slap that on your mael with meta 4 ACs and your good to go.
Jabs OwlsRotate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-01-04 23:58:06 UTC
Goose99 wrote:

Loki used to be in high demand due to its webs. Then people start flying pimp Bhaalgorns, for long ranged webs plus much higher dps/volley. The current FOTM is legion - high tracking, high dmg projection, decent volley, no webs, for contesting NCOs. When you web a rat, you also web it for the other fleet that's about to take your pay.



ok, thanks for that, but from what i gather, the loki and vaga don't seem to be very good at many PVE activities, are there any other minmatar ships that are? (mainly looking at T2) excluding the vargur, i know its very good at missioning.

[/quote=Julia Connor]
Use 650mm or 720mm on your loki if you have to use one because 425mm sucks ballz in missions or even better get a legion or tengu. Problem solved.
A mael should fair a lot better if you have T2/Faction tank and T2 Gyros. Slap that on your mael with meta 4 guns and your good to go. [/quote]

whats so bad about 425mm for missions? if this statement is true how would the munin fair in a l4? and im not going to train another race cruiser to 5 for a while, so the legion and tengu are out of the question for now.

and my mael has a T2 tank, T2 gyro's, meta 4 AC's and rat specific hardeners, but i still get hit loads from blood/sansha (obviously), so much so i get aggravated at its speed aswell lol.

ps. i would post my fit, but i dunno how, should i just type it out?
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#15 - 2012-01-05 00:07:46 UTC
Jabs OwlsRotate wrote:

ok, thanks for that, but from what i gather, the loki and vaga don't seem to be very good at many PVE activities, are there any other minmatar ships that are? (mainly looking at T2) excluding the vargur, i know its very good at missioning.


The Sleipnir is rather decent at PVE, but then, you'll probably sooner be in a Mach, which plainly outperforms it.

Quote:

ps. i would post my fit, but i dunno how, should i just type it out?



If you use EFT, just click on the little ship symbol right beneath the name of the fit, select copy to clipboard and paste it here.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Jabs OwlsRotate
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-01-05 00:10:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Jabs OwlsRotate
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Jabs OwlsRotate wrote:

ok, thanks for that, but from what i gather, the loki and vaga don't seem to be very good at many PVE activities, are there any other minmatar ships that are? (mainly looking at T2) excluding the vargur, i know its very good at missioning.


The Sleipnir is rather decent at PVE, but then, you'll probably sooner be in a Mach, which plainly outperforms it.

Quote:

ps. i would post my fit, but i dunno how, should i just type it out?



If you use EFT, just click on the little ship symbol right beneath the name of the fit, select copy to clipboard and paste it here.


ok, thanks, ill edit my post with my fit in just a second!

EDIT: here it is:
[Maelstrom, New Setup 1]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

X-Large Shield Booster II
Gist B-Type Shield Boost Amplifier
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Cap Recharger II

800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L
800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I, EMP L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#17 - 2012-01-05 00:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
That's a decent fit - If speed is the issue, you could probably try fitting an MWD (Quad Lif fueled booster rockets, T2 or something like Shadow Sepentis) on it, maybe swap the XL T2 shield booster for something like a Dread Guristas XL booster if you don't have the fitting skills, swap the cap recharger to a Heavy cap booster II with cap booster 800's and if you like it, get rid of the CCC rigs and pick rigs depending on what you feel it lacks the most.

Overall it looks overtanked to me, but then I can only use my skills to retrieve the stats from it.

it wil look somewhat cap-unstable in EFT, but you'll find that if you only burst the MWD and won't have to run the SB all the time, you won't even need to activate the cap booster most of the time.
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Orlacc
#18 - 2012-01-05 01:46:01 UTC
If you like fun, a missile fit Loki in level 4s is fun.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#19 - 2012-01-05 03:24:11 UTC
I ran lvl 4s in a loki for a while. I was tired of battleships (my old raven) and wanted something new.

It tanked every mission with ease (2 CN invuls and a pith a small) with 425s and drones it can chew through any rat BUT the damage projection really sucks. You have to get up close to each and every rat to kill them meaning your isk/hour is lower then running say a 800 fit mael (such as seriously boreds fit from BC).

So yes it can do it easily but not as effectively as similar cost wise in say a mael or lets not even compare it to the mach who just blows it out of the water. But it was a change of pace and i had fun for a few months and am back to machariel and nightmare now (not all that expensively fit even since they honestly dont need it)
Orlacc
#20 - 2012-01-05 05:43:42 UTC
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
I ran lvl 4s in a loki for a while. I was tired of battleships (my old raven) and wanted something new.

It tanked every mission with ease (2 CN invuls and a pith a small) with 425s and drones it can chew through any rat BUT the damage projection really sucks. You have to get up close to each and every rat to kill them meaning your isk/hour is lower then running say a 800 fit mael (such as seriously boreds fit from BC).

So yes it can do it easily but not as effectively as similar cost wise in say a mael or lets not even compare it to the mach who just blows it out of the water. But it was a change of pace and i had fun for a few months and am back to machariel and nightmare now (not all that expensively fit even since they honestly dont need it)



This.

For pure mission efficiency, a Mach is the way to go. But, for fun I like a T3.

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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