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Interceptor Fit for surviving Null Sec Gate Camps
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Mooqqee
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-09-22 02:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mooqqee
I would like to be able to fly around Null SEC and not worry about Gate Camps. (and secondarily refit in space at some point to a more offensive fitting)

I was thinking about using a interceptor because of speed and bubble immunity.

I have seen fittings for Maledicitons

If my sole concern was align time ( I have read less than 2 secs is needed) and surviving a Bomb run at gate

would the following be optimum?
low:
3 inertial stab
1 damage control

med:
med sheild ext
em ward amp

rigs
2 small friction nozzle joints
Be Ideal?
___________
[Optional High:
proto cloaking device
core probe launcher]
I was thinking I could take a deployable depot and some offensive modules that I could use to refit Interceptor at some safe spot.


What confuses me is all those fittings with MWDs or with modules that do not effect align and warp time. I would assume that if safe travel was my concern I would only care about fast aligning. Any offensive or better tank could be refitted in space with Depot.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2015-09-22 02:46:43 UTC
I don't fly inties through null a lot, but I just want to make a few points...

-shield extenders increase sig, --> less lock time --> higher chance of getting caught
-are smartbombing BS really that common? If you're not transporting goods, I wouldn't worry about losing a 25 mil ship every few weeks or so.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-09-22 03:50:20 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
I don't fly inties through null a lot, but I just want to make a few points...

-shield extenders increase sig, --> less lock time --> higher chance of getting caught
-are smartbombing BS really that common? If you're not transporting goods, I wouldn't worry about losing a 25 mil ship every few weeks or so.


stabs also increase sig

nano versus stab is always an interesting playoff
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#4 - 2015-09-22 04:01:06 UTC
its something like <2s warp time is effectively insta warping. You send the warp command, and in the first second you start warping and become lockable, in the second second they start to lock you, but you are already gone.

how the exact math and server mechanics work I can't get into as I don't really know.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-09-22 05:51:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Atomic Dove
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
its something like <2s warp time is effectively insta warping. You send the warp command, and in the first second you start warping and become lockable, in the second second they start to lock you, but you are already gone.

how the exact math and server mechanics work I can't get into as I don't really know.



Every server cycle takes 1 second.


-you uncloak to align & warp, this info is received by the server and sent out on the next cycle. This starts the timer

- tackler client receives this info and sends a "I want to target this guy" command

- assuming the tackler has sufficient scan res and low enough latency to target within the first server cycle (1 second) the server will then give an "ok, you targeted him" on the next cycle. We're now 1 second into the process

- upon receiving this info and assuming the tackler primed his point it will immediately send out a "ok, now immediately apply point"

- server processes that command on the next cycle (so another second into the process, a total of 2) and replies with "well, he's just warped off. Sorry"


So it doesn't matter if you have just enough scan res to target within a second or you have 17 bazillion scan res, you're forever limited by the server cycle being 1 second and the whole process requiring 2 cycles. There will be people telling you amazing stories about how being closer to the server or having more scan res makes a difference blahblahblah, none of that is true because you're STILL limited to the server cycle. It DOES help to make up for the tackler's latency issues but you can't beat (for obvious reasons) the programming.... normally.


Snip, Please report bugs and exploits through appropriate channels and avoid rumor mongering, we appreciate any and all information provided for any concerns you have - ISD Atomic Dove
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#6 - 2015-09-22 06:48:47 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
I don't fly inties through null a lot, but I just want to make a few points...

-shield extenders increase sig, --> less lock time --> higher chance of getting caught
-are smartbombing BS really that common? If you're not transporting goods, I wouldn't worry about losing a 25 mil ship every few weeks or so.


stabs also increase sig

nano versus stab is always an interesting playoff


and Nanos are a stupid move when trying for an insta-warp, <2s align 'ceptor.

Nanos, unlike I-Stabs, increase your max velocity, thus increasing the time it takes to get into warp.

Sig radius counts for nothing on a <2s align 'ceptor, as by the time the server ticks over to activate a point, you'll have already entered warp.

HOWEVER, Sig Radius will matter if you run into a smartbombing battleship. higher sig radius, more damage taken.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-09-22 07:13:37 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:



Nanos, unlike I-Stabs, increase your max velocity, thus increasing the time it takes to get into warp.

.



That is not my understanding of it. You warp at 75% max V and the time to get to 75% max V is dependent on Mass and Inertia Modifier.

Any difference in time to warp will be due to the different inertia modifiers you get with stabs and nanos effecting time to acceleration to 75% of max speed not the max speed itself.

You coudl have a good point and there might be a difference between the times to warp for the two, never really thought about it - but if there is a difference it is not related to max speed.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-09-22 07:38:11 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:



Nanos, unlike I-Stabs, increase your max velocity, thus increasing the time it takes to get into warp.

.



That is not my understanding of it. You warp at 75% max V and the time to get to 75% max V is dependent on Mass and Inertia Modifier.

Any difference in time to warp will be due to the different inertia modifiers you get with stabs and nanos effecting time to acceleration to 75% of max speed not the max speed itself.

You coudl have a good point and there might be a difference between the times to warp for the two, never really thought about it - but if there is a difference it is not related to max speed.





It has nothing to do with the fact that nanos increase speed because an increase in base speed does not affect anything at all in this regard (unless you change the base speed mid align like with a propulsion mod or web). The reason that istabs are better is the very simple fact that they give a 20% agility bonus and nanos only give ~15%.
Dreadchain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-09-22 08:14:54 UTC
In short:

- Max speed has no bearing on align time
- I-stabs are better than nanos, IF you can reach sub-2s align time
- When over 2s align time, modules that increase signature size allows tacklers to lock you with less scan resolution, which can result in nanofibers being favourable over i-stabs in certain scenarios

www.minerbumping.com
Oraac Ensor
#10 - 2015-09-22 08:55:03 UTC
I've been playing for almost 4 years but I've never been sure that I fully understand the i-stab/nano situation.

I have always followed the principle that i-stabs are necessary only if there is no other way to get below 2s align time.

Am I right?
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-09-22 09:16:06 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
I've been playing for almost 4 years but I've never been sure that I fully understand the i-stab/nano situation.

I have always followed the principle that i-stabs are necessary only if there is no other way to get below 2s align time.

Am I right?



Yes and no. In one situation the slightly faster align from istabs, even if above 2 secs, saves you. In another situation the increased speed from nanos might save you. However: nano has 2 good bonuses, istab has 1 bonus and 1 penalty so on the whole nanos are more useful.
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-09-22 12:10:00 UTC
Oraac Ensor wrote:
I've been playing for almost 4 years but I've never been sure that I fully understand the i-stab/nano situation.

I have always followed the principle that i-stabs are necessary only if there is no other way to get below 2s align time.

Am I right?



So you have three options really.

1. I-stabs
2. Nano
3. Overdrive

The i-stab only affects agility, it will let you accelerate quicker and turn faster, but does nothing to your top speed. Because warp is 75% of your top speed, I-stabs are the best way to reduce align time, because they get to 75% the quickest.

The nano gives a boost to agility and max velocity. Someone previously posted that they increase align time. That is false. Ship acceleration is a function of agility. The time taken to reach top speed does not change when your top speed changes. The only thing that influences acceleration is agility. Nano gives a smaller boost to agility than I-stab.

The overdrive only boosts top speed, no agility bonus. This does nothing to improve align time.

For a travel ceptor, just use I-stabs and low friction nozzle rigs to have the best agility. If you align under 2 seconds you can't be caught.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-09-22 17:41:44 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:


HOWEVER, Sig Radius will matter if you run into a smartbombing battleship. higher sig radius, more damage taken.


Common misconception, sig radius has no effect on damage you take from a smartbomb, only resists are factored in.

Art of Explosions
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-09-22 20:03:21 UTC
Soloman Jackson
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-09-22 20:11:39 UTC
I fit a Claw for an align time of 1.5 seconds. Took off from Jita to head to Hek with a few blueprint copies in my hold. I figured it was unlockable so i took the shortcut through Rancer....

I didn't even see the smart bombing ships. I was in warp head to the gate from a planet and BOOM! White screen and a corpse floating.

It doesn't matter how you fit your ship. There is always a counter. Use sites like Dot-Lan and similar to avoid those situations.
Search for kills in the last hour/24 hours. Definitely use your D-scan every 5 seconds or so when traveling through hostile space.

Fly fast and deadly. o7

“The cold stars spun to the ancient rhythm, the august march of an everlasting symphony. They are old, the stars, and their memory is long.” -Rick Yancey
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#16 - 2015-09-22 20:39:14 UTC
Soloman Jackson wrote:
I fit a Claw for an align time of 1.5 seconds. Took off from Jita to head to Hek with a few blueprint copies in my hold. I figured it was unlockable so i took the shortcut through Rancer....

I didn't even see the smart bombing ships. I was in warp head to the gate from a planet and BOOM! White screen and a corpse floating.

It doesn't matter how you fit your ship. There is always a counter. Use sites like Dot-Lan and similar to avoid those situations.
Search for kills in the last hour/24 hours. Definitely use your D-scan every 5 seconds or so when traveling through hostile space.

Fly fast and deadly. o7

Well that was just silly.

Rancer is well-known for smartbomb battleships in range of the gates.

Otherwise in the universe, they are fairly rare.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-09-22 20:56:07 UTC
people dont have a ping on every rancer gate yet?

Art of Explosions
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#18 - 2015-09-22 23:23:37 UTC
Dreadchain wrote:
- Max speed has no bearing on align time


yes, yes it does. to be 'aligned' you need to be at 75% of max velocity. by increasing your max velocity through Nanos, you increase the time before you can slip into warp.

which is why Low Friction Nozzle Joints and I-Stabs are preferred over Polycarbon Engine Housings and Nanofibers.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-09-23 10:47:37 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Dreadchain wrote:
- Max speed has no bearing on align time


yes, yes it does. to be 'aligned' you need to be at 75% of max velocity. by increasing your max velocity through Nanos, you increase the time before you can slip into warp.

which is why Low Friction Nozzle Joints and I-Stabs are preferred over Polycarbon Engine Housings and Nanofibers.


No that is mistaken, it's similar to how increasing your cap or shield doesn't affect your cap/shield recharge timer. EVE logic isn't necessarily the same as RL logic.
Barubary Evans
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-09-23 12:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Barubary Evans
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Dreadchain wrote:
- Max speed has no bearing on align time


yes, yes it does. to be 'aligned' you need to be at 75% of max velocity. by increasing your max velocity through Nanos, you increase the time before you can slip into warp.

which is why Low Friction Nozzle Joints and I-Stabs are preferred over Polycarbon Engine Housings and Nanofibers.

Ship align times are essentially "static" in relation to their speed. If you have a ship that normally has a top speed of 500 m / s and accelerates to top speed in 5 seconds, you're going to accelerate at roughly 100 m/s.

Even if you increase your top speed to 1000 m / s, your align time stays the same. Because your ship is designed to reach its top speed in 5 seconds, it will still reach its top speed of 1000 m / s in 5 seconds, accelerating by roughly 200 m / s.

Acceleration / align time and top speeds are two separate ship stats that don't really affect each other in EVE.

The only thing that appears to be an exception to this (but isn't really) are prop mods. They appear to both increase speed and increase the time it takes to align, but it isn't due to the increase in speed that takes longer to align, but is instead the increased mass that prop mods give you when active. 1&5 mn's increase your mass by 500k, 10&50's by 5 mil, and 100&500's by 50 mil. It's this increase in mass that causes the slower align times.

Top speed and align / acceleration in EVE are not connected at all.

The reason things like iStabs are preferred over Nanos is because iStabs provide a 20% boost to agility whereas Nanos provide only 15%. Those numbers become especially important as you begin to deal with stacking penalties.
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