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Well rounded 10/10 Marauder for the newb...

Author
Ablaze Earth
SayGen Enterprises
#1 - 2015-09-21 06:45:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ablaze Earth
Seems like everywhere I turn I'm getting different inconsistent answers.
What is the most well-rounded (IE: Useable in any space region with only having to change the specific hardeners) Marauder
So far I'm leaning toward Golem and Vargur.

I only want it set up for 10/10s, nothing else--I'll unlock the 10/10s with other toons.

Phase one:
Which Marauder to use
Phase two:
How to fit it siding with extra tank over isk/hour
Phase three:
An actual up to date guide that isn't from 2012 that covers specifically how to run the 10/10s.

I'm worried to death I'll end up like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rYoIJ9n_ZQ
I don't even know what he did wrong, he clicked his MJD and had full shields. How do I prevent that from being me?

All help super appreciated.
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#2 - 2015-09-21 07:19:42 UTC
I have no idea how to help you, just wanted to come and say that the video was hilarious. Dat 25k volley from the structure lol.

On a sidenote, I don't have any experience running 10/10s outside of the Guristas one, but personally I'd go with the Golem just cause you can MJD to safety and use Cruise missiles for solid dps at range. Vargur will either be deep in falloff or forced to use arties at that range resulting in much lower dps.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-09-21 08:36:36 UTC
Golem have perfect damage selection so its the best suited for use in all spaces.
Cruise missiles have good application on orbiting frigs (decent atleast) and have realy long range.

All the Marauders can tank the crap out of any PvE you can find, activate bastion and use BS sized repper/booster with cap injection to tank any PvE activity in K-space

Basicly Vargur and Golem is the best suited due to capless weapons and mids to use ASB to get capless tank also :)
Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#4 - 2015-09-21 15:19:29 UTC
he probably died cause activating your MJD increases sig by 150%, thus waaaay more dmg from that missile
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#5 - 2015-09-21 15:25:56 UTC
Thron Legacy wrote:
activating your MJD increases sig by 150%

Shockeduwom8!

Must check this when I get home.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#6 - 2015-09-21 15:34:52 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Thron Legacy wrote:
activating your MJD increases sig by 150%

Shockeduwom8!

Must check this when I get home.

Yup, especially if he was relying on his bastion resists to tank the damage. SO not only was his sig huge but he wasn't moving particularly fast AND he didn't have the bastion resists to shield, armor and hull.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Garrett Osinov
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-09-21 17:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Garrett Osinov
For Angels 10/10 I wouldn't use Marauder. The only benefit it has is Bastion module, but It is suicidal to engage it, cause you will be probed one day, damage is lower then Machariel, and Machariel is capable to run 10/10 angel in semi T2 fit. Exept Gist Large X-type shield booster and Domination / Gist Afterburner.

Also I don't see any reasons to use 1 bil marauder, when you can do the same thing quicker in 450 mils ship.
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#8 - 2015-09-21 21:47:27 UTC
Newbs don't fly marauders.
/thread
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-09-21 22:01:13 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Newbs don't fly marauders.
/thread


Newb is a state of mind, not restricted to low SP players :P
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#10 - 2015-09-21 23:19:50 UTC
I saw a clip of a vargur successfully soloing the blood 10/10. was even easy to find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_ceWpFJ08Q Final room starts about 9m in

saw a clip of a proteus soloing the gurista 10/10, I imagine the vargur would work for that. Not sure about tank reqs, or sig radius effects of big missiles. That said it seems you are mostly smartbombing frigs and structure bashing, so I imagine most would be okay for that one.

if you can do the angel one in a mach I would guess you can do it in a varg

not sure about the other few 10/10s,

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Ablaze Earth
SayGen Enterprises
#11 - 2015-09-22 06:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ablaze Earth
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Golem have perfect damage selection so its the best suited for use in all spaces.
Cruise missiles have good application on orbiting frigs (decent atleast) and have realy long range.

All the Marauders can tank the crap out of any PvE you can find, activate bastion and use BS sized repper/booster with cap injection to tank any PvE activity in K-space

Basicly Vargur and Golem is the best suited due to capless weapons and mids to use ASB to get capless tank also :)


Does that include the final room? Seemed like the golem in the video I linked got insta blapped.
How do you avoid the one shot kill?



So I've pretty much settled on Golem, with cruise missiles but now I'm curious about the other parts of my OP.

Phase two:
How to fit it siding with extra tank over isk/hour
Phase three:
An actual up to date guide that isn't from 2012 that covers specifically how to run the 10/10s.

Final question: What went wrong, and how do I make sure this doesn't happen to me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rYoIJ9n_ZQ


Edit:
In terms of fit/guide
What is your opinion on this video play through:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Idzc8Fxv30
Was the fit correct? (optimized) Was his strategy in each room typical?
Why didn't he get blapped soon as he entered the final room?
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#12 - 2015-09-22 07:43:26 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Newb is a state of mind, not restricted to low SP players :P


Happiness is just a state of mind.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-09-22 09:55:48 UTC
Ablaze Earth wrote:


Golem have a EM resist hole, but 1 extra mid slot that can be used to cover it (compared to Vargur). So against pure EM dmg the Vargur have better base resists, they bouth have same total base resist in shield and armor so against everything not doing EM the Golem have better tank (Exp is the same)

If imn not wrong, there is a bug in that 10/10 site that makes citadel torps hit for 100k EM dmg without caring about signature or speed (with 90% resist that is still 10k dmg)

Without having the actual fits used in those videoes its realy hard to specify what was wrong or right and what changes should have been made :(
Ablaze Earth
SayGen Enterprises
#14 - 2015-09-24 04:54:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ablaze Earth
Critique welcome:

+light drones for the rat dmg type
+cruise missiles for the rat dmg type

4x CML
Bastion
Smartbomb
Cloak



Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

x4 Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

MJD
3X specific dmg C-types (2 for main 1 for off)
Large cap booster
X type LSB
LSE


Cargo
-MD-
-LO&stront-
-Travel fit-
-Pvp survival fit-
ammo/nano
-as many n800 CBs as possible-

Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-603


Thoughts? What about any other cheapish implants to increase my ability to survive or do more applied dps (prefer survive)
PecX Ocedei
Pulling The Plug
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#15 - 2015-09-27 00:08:28 UTC
Ablaze Earth wrote:
Critique welcome:

+light drones for the rat dmg type
+cruise missiles for the rat dmg type

4x CML
Bastion
Smartbomb
Cloak



Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

x4 Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

MJD
3X specific dmg C-types (2 for main 1 for off)
Large cap booster
X type LSB
LSE


Cargo
-MD-
-LO&stront-
-Travel fit-
-Pvp survival fit-
ammo/nano
-as many n800 CBs as possible-

Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-603


Thoughts? What about any other cheapish implants to increase my ability to survive or do more applied dps (prefer survive)


In the Highs substitute the cloak for a salvager or something. Cloaks kill your scan res, which is already bad due to you being in a BS. You are talking like minute long lock times for frigates. If you are worried about ganks, make two safes, drop a MD at one. If someone enters the system warp to the MD, refit for cloak, then warp to the second safe and cloak as soon as you land. Also If I remember correctly the Golem has four utility highs, so throw on a tractor beam as well. Salvage can add a ton to your earnings.

In the Lows. Replace one of the BCS in the lows for a DCU as there is no reason why you shouldn't have a DCU. Also 4 BCS is excessive unless you already have a DCU.

In the Mids. This one is going to need some love. Switch the L for a XL Gist X-type SB. Make it two Invulns plus one specific for the hardeners. Especially in the higher end sites you do see all different damage types, plus it is nice to have a hard tank if you do get jumped, which happens even if you are in "safe" null. I would say drop the Shield Extender as you won't need it due to your booster repping like 3k per cycle. Instead look into a Missile Guidance Computer with a Precision script loaded.

Hope this helps!
Ablaze Earth
SayGen Enterprises
#16 - 2015-09-27 01:37:33 UTC
PecX Ocedei wrote:
Ablaze Earth wrote:
Critique welcome:

+light drones for the rat dmg type
+cruise missiles for the rat dmg type

4x CML
Bastion
Smartbomb
Cloak



Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

x4 Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

MJD
3X specific dmg C-types (2 for main 1 for off)
Large cap booster
X type LSB
LSE


Cargo
-MD-
-LO&stront-
-Travel fit-
-Pvp survival fit-
ammo/nano
-as many n800 CBs as possible-

Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-603


Thoughts? What about any other cheapish implants to increase my ability to survive or do more applied dps (prefer survive)


In the Highs substitute the cloak for a salvager or something. Cloaks kill your scan res, which is already bad due to you being in a BS. You are talking like minute long lock times for frigates. If you are worried about ganks, make two safes, drop a MD at one. If someone enters the system warp to the MD, refit for cloak, then warp to the second safe and cloak as soon as you land. Also If I remember correctly the Golem has four utility highs, so throw on a tractor beam as well. Salvage can add a ton to your earnings.

In the Lows. Replace one of the BCS in the lows for a DCU as there is no reason why you shouldn't have a DCU. Also 4 BCS is excessive unless you already have a DCU.

In the Mids. This one is going to need some love. Switch the L for a XL Gist X-type SB. Make it two Invulns plus one specific for the hardeners. Especially in the higher end sites you do see all different damage types, plus it is nice to have a hard tank if you do get jumped, which happens even if you are in "safe" null. I would say drop the Shield Extender as you won't need it due to your booster repping like 3k per cycle. Instead look into a Missile Guidance Computer with a Precision script loaded.

Hope this helps!


It does help, I have a few questions/comments and would love your additional feedback.

Salvager seems like I'd be wasting cargo space that could be used for more ammo/cap boosters, is it really worth it? How much salvage are we talking about? (isk wise?)

Cloak doesn't bother me, the only time I have to wait for a lock is the first time I enter each room, other wise I'm already locking more than I can kill. IE: Enter room kill target A , target B is locking as well as targets C--E (till max targets). Only the first initial lock would be 1m and that's if I went after a frig first--which I wouldn't.

Agree with the DCU, I didn't even think about it. *fail*

Like the mids suggestion. I am worried about total buffer though. The final room hits you for a massive 100K blow and as I linked in the youtube video in my OP I'm not sure how else to avoid that.


PecX Ocedei
Pulling The Plug
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#17 - 2015-09-27 03:23:11 UTC
Ablaze Earth wrote:
PecX Ocedei wrote:
Ablaze Earth wrote:
Critique welcome:

+light drones for the rat dmg type
+cruise missiles for the rat dmg type

4x CML
Bastion
Smartbomb
Cloak



Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Bay Loading Accelerator II

x4 Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

MJD
3X specific dmg C-types (2 for main 1 for off)
Large cap booster
X type LSB
LSE


Cargo
-MD-
-LO&stront-
-Travel fit-
-Pvp survival fit-
ammo/nano
-as many n800 CBs as possible-

Zainou 'Snapshot' Cruise Missiles CM-603


Thoughts? What about any other cheapish implants to increase my ability to survive or do more applied dps (prefer survive)


In the Highs substitute the cloak for a salvager or something. Cloaks kill your scan res, which is already bad due to you being in a BS. You are talking like minute long lock times for frigates. If you are worried about ganks, make two safes, drop a MD at one. If someone enters the system warp to the MD, refit for cloak, then warp to the second safe and cloak as soon as you land. Also If I remember correctly the Golem has four utility highs, so throw on a tractor beam as well. Salvage can add a ton to your earnings.

In the Lows. Replace one of the BCS in the lows for a DCU as there is no reason why you shouldn't have a DCU. Also 4 BCS is excessive unless you already have a DCU.

In the Mids. This one is going to need some love. Switch the L for a XL Gist X-type SB. Make it two Invulns plus one specific for the hardeners. Especially in the higher end sites you do see all different damage types, plus it is nice to have a hard tank if you do get jumped, which happens even if you are in "safe" null. I would say drop the Shield Extender as you won't need it due to your booster repping like 3k per cycle. Instead look into a Missile Guidance Computer with a Precision script loaded.

Hope this helps!


It does help, I have a few questions/comments and would love your additional feedback.

Salvager seems like I'd be wasting cargo space that could be used for more ammo/cap boosters, is it really worth it? How much salvage are we talking about? (isk wise?)

Cloak doesn't bother me, the only time I have to wait for a lock is the first time I enter each room, other wise I'm already locking more than I can kill. IE: Enter room kill target A , target B is locking as well as targets C--E (till max targets). Only the first initial lock would be 1m and that's if I went after a frig first--which I wouldn't.

Agree with the DCU, I didn't even think about it. *fail*

Like the mids suggestion. I am worried about total buffer though. The final room hits you for a massive 100K blow and as I linked in the youtube video in my OP I'm not sure how else to avoid that.






I can't speak for the video, but normally if you remain moving (normally in sites I use a Gist X-type 500MN due to not nerfing your total cap) that should decrease the damage a lot. So that means until you can negate the incoming dps, you should stay out of bastion. Also a large shield extender will do nothing to help if you are getting hit for 100k, The only thing that will help for that is resists, which is why I focus on resists more than buffer. Those two invulns will help greatly with that. Also being able to use your shield booster helps too, so manage the cap wisely.

The extra income from salvage can be quite substantial actually, I can't think of an exact number, but I have tacked on about 40 mil on a single 10/10 at least, just by salvaging. In my opinion that outweighs the cost in your hold, but honestly how much room were you planning on taking up with ammo anyway?

Last point it that the extra lock time could wind up screwing you over more than you think. Lets say you start shooting at the rats you chose to shoot at first, then a elite frig (that you hadn't locked) runs up on you and scrams you, that is at least a minute longer that you will be tackled, and fair game for anybody to come kill you. Also it kills your escape if the site should go sideways and you need to warp.
Aivlis Eldelbar
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#18 - 2015-09-28 00:16:25 UTC
I can only speak about the Sansha 10/10, but here goes: Paladin makes it a cakewalk, Golem can do it but is a tad slower.

In the end it all depends on what are your rats... keep in mind the Vargur when fit with ACs doesn't get that much of a range, so if your local NPC battleships tend to orbit at 50km, I wouldn't bother with it and go for Golem.

PS: nice vid, had a giggle. Always make sure you've taken the citadel torp hit before trying to MJD.
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-09-29 10:33:29 UTC
i lost a vargur in a blood 10/10 because i forgot to reload cap charges into my cargo bay and stupidly went into bastion again after failing mjd

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-10-15 11:06:42 UTC
I suggest cruise golem personally, better long range application vs fighting in falloff.
4x cruise
1x smartbomb ( let the frigs build up and then turn on the smartbomb. Shoot cruises between cycles.)
3 x type harderners(2x primary damage 1x secondary damage)
1x pith x xlarge shield booster.
1x microjump drive.
1x large cap boosters with 800s
2x target painters.
4x bcu.

1x t2 rigor
1x t2 flare

Travel fits of cloak,mwd and warp core stabs.

First couple rooms are easy. Last room mjd immediately. You do not want to get hit during the sig bloom. After mjd bastion and drop your depot. Go to town.

Bastion mode is ok, since you only really need it for the last room. Watch dscan for probes and your fine. IIRC correctly you have to be scanned down since you can't to be dscanned down due to it being a dead space pocket.

Alternatively you can not kill the rats in the preceding rooms. Just mjd around to land on the aceleration gates and leave nasty surprises.
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