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Crime & Punishment

 
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Thunderdome - July 2015 series!
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Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#481 - 2015-09-21 09:47:30 UTC
Lodestone Toyee wrote:
Is there a way to dislike posts? If there was I really would dislike this rookie ship idea.

Not everyone has a 300mil edition rookie ship they've been waiting to use, and from the crafting I've done so far it seems like the limited edition rookie ships are incredible improvements over the T1s. They are so much better in every respect. (I'm willing to retract this statement if someone wants to step up and prove me wrong)

Of course its possible to lose in one, but clearly the advantage goes to the person(s) who are willing to shell out 300mil on a rookie ship in this bracket. A quick comparison between the taipan vs the ibis, or the violator vs the velator, clearly shows the advantage the limited edition has over the T1. 50% more primary slots, plus massive utility and damage bonuses make faction rookie ships clearly the way to go. Since frigate duels like these end rather fast(usually), the person with 50% more dps/tank from their faction rookie ship is very likely to win unless mistakes are made.

I don't mean to complain because I normally reject the notion that pvp (especially this thunderdome) is pay to win. Eve is a marvelously balanced game and its awesome to see cheap ships beat shinier ones.
I don't think that balance exists, or was intended to exist with the special edition ships. I would have mentioned this earlier, but I wasn't considering this bracket since I assumed I would be knocked out long ago.

Anyway, felt I would throw out these thoughts before the match to prevent the possible "hes butthurt he lost". In the name of providing content I'll gladly continue, just wanting to know if anyone else had considered these implications of a rookie ship duel.

tl;dr
grr I would prefer to spend 300mil on a more practical endeavor.

wait faction rookies ships are allowed?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#482 - 2015-09-21 13:10:27 UTC
Lodestone Toyee wrote:
Is there a way to dislike posts? If there was I really would dislike this rookie ship idea.

Not everyone has a 300mil edition rookie ship they've been waiting to use, and from the crafting I've done so far it seems like the limited edition rookie ships are incredible improvements over the T1s. They are so much better in every respect. (I'm willing to retract this statement if someone wants to step up and prove me wrong)

Of course its possible to lose in one, but clearly the advantage goes to the person(s) who are willing to shell out 300mil on a rookie ship in this bracket. A quick comparison between the taipan vs the ibis, or the violator vs the velator, clearly shows the advantage the limited edition has over the T1. 50% more primary slots, plus massive utility and damage bonuses make faction rookie ships clearly the way to go. Since frigate duels like these end rather fast(usually), the person with 50% more dps/tank from their faction rookie ship is very likely to win unless mistakes are made.

I don't mean to complain because I normally reject the notion that pvp (especially this thunderdome) is pay to win. Eve is a marvelously balanced game and its awesome to see cheap ships beat shinier ones.
I don't think that balance exists, or was intended to exist with the special edition ships. I would have mentioned this earlier, but I wasn't considering this bracket since I assumed I would be knocked out long ago.

Anyway, felt I would throw out these thoughts before the match to prevent the possible "hes butthurt he lost". In the name of providing content I'll gladly continue, just wanting to know if anyone else had considered these implications of a rookie ship duel.

tl;dr
grr I would prefer to spend 300mil on a more practical endeavor.


I'd have to argue that the entirety of eve is the same way. It's risk vs reward, a core concept here. Most faction ships are vast improvements over their t1 variants. Gila vs moa?

However I do blame myself, as originally the losers bracket finals were to be in barges or haulers until noragen showed me they would likely perma tank each other. It was the only thing I could come up with that said " losers round finals" lol...

Anyhow, good luck in the finals. I'd love to see Bronson dethroned...

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#483 - 2015-09-21 13:11:35 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
wait faction rookies ships are allowed?


Why wouldn't they be?

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#484 - 2015-09-21 13:50:24 UTC
Lodestone, you have my word a sitting Thunderdome champion that I will not bring a faction rookie ship to our match. While I agree with Leto regarding faction ships in principle, I feel that in this particular case the gulf between "vanilla" and "faction", both in price and ability, is simply too large.

Plus, like you, I've got better things to spend 300mil on. Blink

I look forward to hearing from you. EvE-mail would likely work best as I haven't been in-game much except when necessary (been catching up on some out-of-pod stuff) but my schedule is relatively free for the next few days.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#485 - 2015-09-21 16:13:18 UTC
Personally I'm not in favor of the faction noob ships. The primary reason being the extreme disparity between them and their vanilla counter parts.
In every other ship class a vanilla t1 could beat a faction variant through superior piloting, clever tactical decisions, range management etc.
With the rookie ships unless the faction pilot screws up in stupendous fashion, he's virtually guaranteed victory.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
#486 - 2015-09-21 16:38:38 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Lodestone, you have my word a sitting Thunderdome champion that I will not bring a faction rookie ship to our match.
Plus, like you, I've got better things to spend 300mil on. Blink


The sole thought of the drama that would ensue if you did bring one and win the fight within ten seconds after making a statement like this... so delicious.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#487 - 2015-09-21 16:48:47 UTC
lmmortalist wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Lodestone, you have my word a sitting Thunderdome champion that I will not bring a faction rookie ship to our match.
Plus, like you, I've got better things to spend 300mil on. Blink


The sole thought of the drama that would ensue if you did bring one and win the fight within ten seconds after making a statement like this... so delicious.

Enjoy the deliciousness of the thought, but it'll never happen. No number of Thunderdome victories is worth me breaking my word.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#488 - 2015-09-21 22:07:51 UTC
Guys maybe it's just me, but 300m is pretty meh. Things in EVE exsist to die in fires. I don't know that I'd actually use it, but I'm not going to disallow it, especially when the cost is the ONLY limiting factor seeing as skills aren't going to discount anyone.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Tengu Grib
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#489 - 2015-09-21 22:11:19 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Guys maybe it's just me, but 300m is pretty meh. Things in EVE exsist to die in fires. I don't know that I'd actually use it, but I'm not going to disallow it, especially when the cost is the ONLY limiting factor seeing as skills aren't going to discount anyone.


Fair enough I suppose. Does that make it an iWin button for the person who decides to bring it? Although I'd laugh hysterically for hours if the opponent brought an Ibis and managed to keep it jammed long enough to kill it.

Rabble Rabble Rabble

Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#490 - 2015-09-21 22:27:18 UTC
Tengu Grib wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
Guys maybe it's just me, but 300m is pretty meh. Things in EVE exsist to die in fires. I don't know that I'd actually use it, but I'm not going to disallow it, especially when the cost is the ONLY limiting factor seeing as skills aren't going to discount anyone.


Fair enough I suppose. Does that make it an iWin button for the person who decides to bring it? Although I'd laugh hysterically for hours if the opponent brought an Ibis and managed to keep it jammed long enough to kill it.


And that's why. Because it doesn't mean it's a 100% chance. It also doesn't mean someone won't gank you on the way to the fight. It also doesn't mean the other guy isn't a better pilot and is going to win anyhow.

You can use ISK to bolster your chances of winning, but not to substitute for lack of skill.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#491 - 2015-09-24 20:33:51 UTC
I've spoken with Lodestone and we will likely be doing our match early next week. Apologies for the delay, but stuff happens.

Also, for anyone who cares, I will be taking a hiatus once I finish this Thunderdome bracket. Said hiatus to include unsubbing my accounts (Bronson's is up in 20-ish days). Out-of-pod stuff has changed for me, and I've never been one to "pay-to-not-play".

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#492 - 2015-09-24 21:08:53 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
I've spoken with Lodestone and we will likely be doing our match early next week. Apologies for the delay, but stuff happens.

Also, for anyone who cares, I will be taking a hiatus once I finish this Thunderdome bracket. Said hiatus to include unsubbing my accounts (Bronson's is up in 20-ish days). Out-of-pod stuff has changed for me, and I've never been one to "pay-to-not-play".


See ya when you get back mate. May your evecation be a prosperous one.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#493 - 2015-09-24 22:06:10 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
See ya when you get back mate. May your evecation be a prosperous one.

Life in hisec = no evacuations. Blink

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#494 - 2015-09-25 03:37:30 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
See ya when you get back mate. May your evecation be a prosperous one.

Life in hisec = no evacuations. Blink


Eve-cation. Like a vacation. From EVE. Not evacuation.

I hope you have freakin triplets now. I put that on you.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Damnskippy
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#495 - 2015-09-25 03:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Damnskippy
Wait what theshit? faction rookie ships? Is that really a thing? I've got to log in and see. What are they called?

Did I just get punk'd?


Edit: is It the Hematos? Where did that ship come from? I've never heard of it until today.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#496 - 2015-09-25 05:36:53 UTC
Damnskippy wrote:
Wait what theshit? faction rookie ships? Is that really a thing? I've got to log in and see. What are they called?

Did I just get punk'd?


Edit: is It the Hematos? Where did that ship come from? I've never heard of it until today.


Just like everything else in the game, the guristas one is the best. It's called the taipan, and you can get it up to around 150 dps with a decent tank and the ability to fit damps or t/d.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Saeger1737
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#497 - 2015-09-25 05:58:31 UTC
Longest July ever!!

MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
Lodestone Toyee
BLACK FOX COLLECTIVE
#498 - 2015-09-25 06:50:50 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Damnskippy wrote:
Wait what theshit? faction rookie ships? Is that really a thing? I've got to log in and see. What are they called?

Did I just get punk'd?


Edit: is It the Hematos? Where did that ship come from? I've never heard of it until today.


Just like everything else in the game, the guristas one is the best. It's called the taipan, and you can get it up to around 150 dps with a decent tank and the ability to fit damps or t/d.


If that wasn't enough, it gets very large missile and drone speed bonuses. Its basically one half of a worm, which practically makes it comparable to most normal frigates.

Some of the others look kinda cool, but like Leto said, if its not gurrristas it has a weakness.

I think the faction rookie ships are given away each fanfest as prizes for mini-tournaments.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#499 - 2015-09-25 13:14:39 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
Eve-cation. Like a vacation. From EVE. Not evacuation.

I hope you have freakin triplets now. I put that on you.

Yeah, I totally misread that....

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#500 - 2015-09-29 04:38:34 UTC
Get it moving people.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment