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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Notice: Investgation and Prize Item Freeze for Teams in ATXIII

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Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#161 - 2015-09-18 18:45:32 UTC
Lovey Dovey wrote:
Yazoul Samaiel wrote:
On the other hand goons whining about something they are terrible at as always


Hi, Yaz.

Why'd you get purged from PL?

Javeeik wrote:

This:

Is a good point, but thats something for another year and a seperate issue CCP need to either address or not as they see fit.


Not really. It's a contributing factor to this current situation. CCP allowed a team to run an A & B team setup, share all sorts of assets & logistics, and so forth. That in turn is part of why the pre-arranged matches that are being alleged came about, the close proximity of two teams working together and sharing assets.

It's not as bad as when these same players involved in this issue thought having Hydra & Outbreak being in a singular corp on Sisi during testing for a previous AT was a totally OK thing to do. CCP banned them from competing that year when they found out, so we all know how well that works. These are all symptoms of the same problem; you shouldn't be allowed to field multiple teams from the same alliance solely for the AT, let alone be allowed to share everything under the sun save for pilots. Realistically, this is an issue CCP needs to address and prevent now rather than in a year.

Hell, there's even the insinuation that Garmon,who was supposedly permabanned for RMT, was logging in on an alt to play which is against the EULA/TOS when it comes to bypassing bans issued by CCP. Which if true, is comically dumb of Hydra to do.

In short, Hydra/Camels/Warlords knew they were cheating, got caught breaking AT rules for an alleged third time and are confused why they're not being coddled by CCP.


smart post.

Yez got purged because he is a terrible poster. He is welcome back any time he learns that grathtelkin is the #1 top *****.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#162 - 2015-09-19 05:37:40 UTC
Lovey Dovey wrote:
got caught breaking AT rules for an alleged third time

In ATIX collusion was not against the rules. HYDRA practiced with Outbreak, we fixed matches, no rules were broken.

In ATX HYDRA, Outbreak and YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT were all excluded from the tournament before it began.

You can read the official post by CCP here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1356138#post1356138. All three groups had their application fees returned and no further action was taken. Please note that YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT is a PL affiliated group, so any offense we can be accused of comitting in ATX can be equally leveled at PL, but in reality no actual offense was committed by any of these groups - they just were not eligible to enter the tournament that year due to a change in policy decided upon by CCP and acted upon at a very late stage.

So there is no history of cheating in HYDRA. There is however a history of playing to the limit of the rules, in order to win, and occasionally being the victim of unfortunate CCP decisions. A history that we share with PL, our chief detractor.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#163 - 2015-09-19 13:33:33 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Lovey Dovey wrote:
got caught breaking AT rules for an alleged third time

In ATIX collusion was not against the rules. HYDRA practiced with Outbreak, we fixed matches, no rules were broken.

In ATX HYDRA, Outbreak and YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT were all excluded from the tournament before it began.

You can read the official post by CCP here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1356138#post1356138. All three groups had their application fees returned and no further action was taken. Please note that YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT is a PL affiliated group, so any offense we can be accused of comitting in ATX can be equally leveled at PL, but in reality no actual offense was committed by any of these groups - they just were not eligible to enter the tournament that year due to a change in policy decided upon by CCP and acted upon at a very late stage.

So there is no history of cheating in HYDRA. There is however a history of playing to the limit of the rules, in order to win, and occasionally being the victim of unfortunate CCP decisions. A history that we share with PL, our chief detractor.








WE HAVE FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION IN IRAQ WE WIN MISSION ACCOMPLISHED :aircraftcarrier:
Lovey Dovey
Doomheim
#164 - 2015-09-19 17:08:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Lovey Dovey
Bad Bobby wrote:

In ATIX collusion was not against the rules. HYDRA practiced with Outbreak, we fixed matches, no rules were broken.

In ATX HYDRA, Outbreak and YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT were all excluded from the tournament before it began.

You can read the official post by CCP here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1356138#post1356138. All three groups had their application fees returned and no further action was taken. Please note that YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT is a PL affiliated group, so any offense we can be accused of comitting in ATX can be equally leveled at PL, but in reality no actual offense was committed by any of these groups - they just were not eligible to enter the tournament that year due to a change in policy decided upon by CCP and acted upon at a very late stage.

So there is no history of cheating in HYDRA. There is however a history of playing to the limit of the rules, in order to win, and occasionally being the victim of unfortunate CCP decisions. A history that we share with PL, our chief detractor.


"we fixed matches once and got caught breaking the rules the next year, but guys it's CCP making the bad decisions not us. You should also ignore that we recently got accused of cheating again and having our prize ships confiscated. Did you know Waffles & PL are from the same social group! They're cheating too! :reddit:" - Sad Bobby

You are either really dumb or just desperate. Probably a mix of both.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#165 - 2015-09-20 03:52:38 UTC
Lovey Dovey wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
Lovey Dovey wrote:
got caught breaking AT rules for an alleged third time

In ATIX collusion was not against the rules. HYDRA practiced with Outbreak, we fixed matches, no rules were broken.

In ATX HYDRA, Outbreak and YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT were all excluded from the tournament before it began.

You can read the official post by CCP here https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1356138#post1356138. All three groups had their application fees returned and no further action was taken. Please note that YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT is a PL affiliated group, so any offense we can be accused of comitting in ATX can be equally leveled at PL, but in reality no actual offense was committed by any of these groups - they just were not eligible to enter the tournament that year due to a change in policy decided upon by CCP and acted upon at a very late stage.

So there is no history of cheating in HYDRA. There is however a history of playing to the limit of the rules, in order to win, and occasionally being the victim of unfortunate CCP decisions. A history that we share with PL, our chief detractor.

"we fixed matches once and got caught breaking the rules the next year, but guys it's CCP making the bad decisions not us. You should also ignore that we recently got accused of cheating again and having our prize ships confiscated. Did you know Waffles & PL are from the same social group! They're cheating too! :reddit:" - Sad Bobby

You are either really dumb or just desperate. Probably a mix of both.

No, just pointing out that your statement about our history was factually incorrect.
Lovey Dovey
Doomheim
#166 - 2015-09-20 21:45:29 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
No, just pointing out that your statement about our history was factually incorrect.


Yeah you're right, you only got caught twice including this current incident and that's totally different.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#167 - 2015-09-21 03:17:04 UTC
Lovey Dovey wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
No, just pointing out that your statement about our history was factually incorrect.

Yeah you're right, you only got caught twice including this current incident and that's totally different.
No, we have never been caught cheating.

It is totally different, because what I'm saying is true and what you are saying is false.

Since true and false are opposites, that is as different as it is possible to be.
Lovey Dovey
Doomheim
#168 - 2015-09-21 04:57:19 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
No, we have never been caught cheating.


Yeah, no. You got caught cheating in the build up to ATX, which was why you were barred from competing that year. There has also been enough evidence of breaking the rules for the AT this year that CCP have decided to prevent your group access to the winnings.

That's not making things up, those are things that actually happened in the manner in which they happened. You can pretend they didn't but that would just be your cognitive dissonance.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#169 - 2015-09-21 06:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Bobby
Lovey Dovey wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
No, we have never been caught cheating.
Yeah, no. You got caught cheating in the build up to ATX, which was why you were barred from competing that year.

No. HYDRA, Outbreak and Waffles were ruled ineligible to compete in ATX. We therefore were unable to compete in ATX and likewise were unable to cheat in ATX. All this was concluded before ATX started.

See this quote from CCP:

CCP Sreegs wrote:
It is because of these philosophical beliefs and changes that we have come to the tough decision of removing three teams from eligibility for competition in Alliance Tournament X.

Notice that it doesn't say "HYDRA, Outbreak and Waffles are cheating so we've banned them from the tournament". It doesn't say that because that isn't what happened.

Lovey Dovey wrote:
There has also been enough evidence of breaking the rules for the AT this year that CCP have decided to prevent your group access to the winnings.

There has been an allegation of cheating in this year's AT. An allegation that has not been upheld by CCP at this time. An allegation that is not supported by anything other than hearsay at this time. Until CCP rules either way on the allegations, they are just allegations, not facts.

Lovey Dovey wrote:
That's not making things up, those are things that actually happened in the manner in which they happened.

No it isn't and CCP's historical verdicts on these matters are publicly available for anyone to verify the truth of it.

You started out claiming that we were caught breaking AT rules three times. Which is simply false.

Now your new interpretation is that the ATX verdict was a ruling that we were cheating and the ATXIII verdict (that hasn't even been given yet) is a ruling that we were cheating.

You can argue with me on these points as much as you like, but the facts remain the same. There is no history of cheating in HYDRA. That may or may not change once CCP returns the results of their investigation.

I can understand that, after DHB and Kadesh had a lover's quarrel on the forums, you think there is blood in the water and the time is right to pre-emptively eliminate both Warlords and Camel from next year's alliance tournament. I think that's premature.
DeadDuck
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#170 - 2015-09-21 09:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: DeadDuck
Bad Bobby wrote:
You can argue with me on these points as much as you like, but the facts remain the same. There is no history of cheating in HYDRA.


Yeah... reminds me those Offshore Companys based in the Cook Islands. They are "legal", but for some odd reason the market knows that Tax Haven as "Crook Islands"... Shocked
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#171 - 2015-09-21 09:49:19 UTC
DeadDuck wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
You can argue with me on these points as much as you like, but the facts remain the same. There is no history of cheating in HYDRA.
Yeah... reminds me those Offshore Companys based in the Cook Islands. They are "legal", but for some odd reason the market knows that Tax Haven as "Crook Islands"... Shocked

It is still legal though.

If it were to become illegal, there would no longer be a need to joke about it being the "Crook Islands".

Once CCP changed the rules, we changed our behaviour in order to comply with them. There were obviously some issues with timing that meant we found ourselves on the wrong side of a CCP ruling for ATX.
DeadDuck
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#172 - 2015-09-21 10:00:58 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
[quote=DeadDuck]
It is still legal though.


They are known by "Crook Islands" it's because the only thing legal is actually the Company, the facade, the name "Hydra" in this paralelism, if you prefer. What happens behind those facades it's very illegal... Blink
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#173 - 2015-09-21 10:07:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Bobby
DeadDuck wrote:
Bad Bobby wrote:
[quote=DeadDuck]
It is still legal though.

They are known by "Crook Islands" it's because the only thing legal is actually the Company, the facade, the name "Hydra" in this paralelism, if you prefer. What happens behind those facades it's very illegal... Blink

I bow to your knowledge of these RL matters.

But the parallel is false, because in-game HYDRA appears to be crooked but actually obeys the rules to the letter.

EDIT: Well I hope that's the case anyway. Because I'd hate to see this smear campaign turn in to reality.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#174 - 2015-09-21 16:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
stop nitpicking, (legal) cheater.
Lovey Dovey
Doomheim
#175 - 2015-09-21 18:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lovey Dovey
Bad Bobby wrote:
Notice that it doesn't say "HYDRA, Outbreak and Waffles are cheating so we've banned them from the tournament". It doesn't say that because that isn't what happened.


It's adorable that after however many years you still think that two alliances merging into a corp and sharing assets, logistics etc. is the same as an affiliated, aka blue, alliance like Waffles being wholly independent of PL when it comes to their assets & logistics for the AT.

Hint: They're not nor will they ever be.

Quote:
An allegation that is not supported by anything other than hearsay at this time.


CCP haven't acted on hearsay though. They haven't even said anything about what sort of evidence they've received to prompt their investigation. So your claim is false. Please try to keep to the facts and not make things up.

Quote:
Now your new interpretation is that the ATX verdict was a ruling that we were cheating and the ATXIII verdict (that hasn't even been given yet) is a ruling that we were cheating.


Hydra & Outbreak weren't barred from competing because they didn't break the rules CCP laid out. CCP stated that Hydra & Outbreak were caught breaking the rules when they merged into a singular corp while proclaiming to be two competing alliances in the AT. As a result they were prohibited from competing for that infraction.

I also said "allegedly" for this current situation, please try to read more carefully.

Quote:
There is no history of cheating in HYDRA.


Except for that time you were barred for violating the ATX rules during testing according to CCP, which you admitted to in the post above this, and right now while HYDRA members are being investigated for match fixing which is against the ATXIII rules.

Bad Bobby wrote:
this smear campaign turn in to reality.


It's not really a smear campaign, unless your alliance subscribes to a victim complex.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#176 - 2015-09-21 18:35:33 UTC
I'm so please someone from HYDA came along, I've been hoping they would for a while.

There is no further proof needed that hydra will do anything that they think they can get away with to make as much isk as possible from the tournament.

There's no point arguing with them, just read their posts, and smile, because they know the game theyre playing, you know the game they're playing, but they will never admit it, you dont need to convince them that what theyre doing is wrong, they know. They just don't care because they make a LOT of money doing it. They have a lot invested in it, so why would anything anyone says convince them that what theyre doing is wrong? It's not wrong in their eyes.

It took someone with a conscience inside HYDRA to secure in CCP's minds that something had to be done, this year was just the final straw, theyve pushed it as far as they can, made as much money off it as they can, now all theyre doing is trying to cover their asses so the next scheme they come up with to make as much money in the AT as possible will be confused as much as possible, so they can keep it going as long as they can, like they did with this scheme.

Games over Bobby, you lost this battle. The question is whether you lose the war, and that depends on CCP's responce to the incident.

Go on Bobby, tell me I'm wrong.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#177 - 2015-09-21 19:05:39 UTC
I've already dealt with all those arguments, please bring some new ones.
Captain Thunk
Explode. Now. Please.
Alliance. Now. Please.
#178 - 2015-09-21 23:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Thunk
Bad Bobby wrote:
I've already dealt with all those arguments, please bring some new ones.

No you tried to claim Hydra is comparable to PL and gloss over the fact that Hydra and all it's heads were blocked from participating for a year as a lesson for the ruined final and Hydramel is currently being investigated with it's prizes held in stasis.

So, no, not the same as none of that has ever happened to PL.

This isn't because Hydra 'lives on the edge' unluckily being the victim of CCPs judgements, it's because Hydra directly attacks and insults CCP by trying to ruin Alliance Tournaments - this isn't metagaming or trolling as it's target is the company itself, it's just stupid. Which is something PL has never done, even though CCP tries to recruit our best players.

But your spin is worthy of a Dead or Alive one hit wonder, so carry on.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#179 - 2015-09-22 02:55:00 UTC
Captain Thunk wrote:
No you tried to claim Hydra is comparable to PL
Only in reference to a specific CCP ruling, which impacted both of our groups:

CCP Sreegs wrote:
Running list of removed teams:

Hydra Reloaded
Outbreak.
YOUR VOTES DON’T COUNT
Bad Bobby wrote:
in reality no actual offense was committed by any of these groups - they just were not eligible to enter the tournament that year due to a change in policy decided upon by CCP and acted upon at a very late stage.

And in reference to my view that both teams play to win and bring all of their resources to that fight:

Bad Bobby wrote:
There is however a history of playing to the limit of the rules, in order to win, and occasionally being the victim of unfortunate CCP decisions. A history that we share with PL, our chief detractor.

So I'm not accusing PL of anything, other than slinging mud at us, for which their is ample evidence in this thread.

Captain Thunk wrote:
Hydra directly attacks and insults CCP by trying to ruin Alliance Tournaments - this isn't metagaming or trolling as it's target is the company itself, it's just stupid.

The truth is that HYDRA does not want to ruin Alliance Tournaments, the only one we believe we ruined (ATIX) was a massive **** up on our part and did not go according to our plan at all.

We were punished for that through the exclusion from ATX, which hit both of our teams, while CCP only decided to exclude one of yours. That's because they had a reason to be vengeful against HYDRA and no reason to be so against PL. We understand that we ruined the ATIX final, we understand that we caused CCP a massive embarrassment and lost them money. We are sorry for that and have no intention of repeating that performance.

None of this changes the simple fact that CCP has never upheld any claims that HYDRA has broken AT rules. Which is why I've been posting to set the record straight about that, because people claiming that we have broken AT rules on a whole load of occasions are just re-interpreting history out of ignorance or malice.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#180 - 2015-09-22 02:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bad Bobby
Captain Thunk wrote:
This isn't because Hydra 'lives on the edge' unluckily being the victim of CCPs judgements

That exclusion was down to two things: bad timing and bad feelings.

The change of CCP attitude came suddenly and left us on the wrong side of the ATX entry requirements. We didn't have any time to fix that, because the entrance deadline had passed.

The bad feelings from CCP were justified and I totally understand why they came down hard on us that year.