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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Notice: Investgation and Prize Item Freeze for Teams in ATXIII

First post First post
Author
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#141 - 2015-09-17 14:08:38 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Literally all you pl people are on about is camel and warlords/hydra beeing 1 team, that isnt the issue, never was the issue and is totally legal. Its all about if they turned their bo3 into a bo1 or not and if the finals were legit.



I guess you weren't around for the Drama Lama when Waffles tried to enter the tournament for the first time were you.....
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Goonswarm Federation
#142 - 2015-09-17 14:22:33 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
MissBolyai wrote:
Hydra doesn't have an AT team.
If you say so.


Am I wrong? http://community.eveonline.com/community/alliance-tournament/ I just crtl + f'd the snot out of that page for "hydra" and got 0 results.

And if Camel had their own independent tournament pedigree, why did they need to share setups/ships/tactics with Warlords? Again, no one from PL (sans Rive) is saying that PL should have won, and the official stance of PL is that Warlords and Camel out-executed us on the last day. Trust me, I am the official spokesman for PL.

But you're a dumbojet if you think that dhb's claims aren't significant and against the rules.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#143 - 2015-09-17 14:32:10 UTC  |  Edited by: W0lf Crendraven
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Literally all you pl people are on about is camel and warlords/hydra beeing 1 team, that isnt the issue, never was the issue and is totally legal. Its all about if they turned their bo3 into a bo1 or not and if the finals were legit.



I guess you weren't around for the Drama Lama when Waffles tried to enter the tournament for the first time were you.....


Who cares about that, its specifically says that what they did, bar the actual match fixing and gentlemans rules, i.e beeing 1 team, training together, trading ships, trading setups, splitting pizes and so on is 100% legal.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#144 - 2015-09-17 14:40:12 UTC
MissBolyai wrote:
if Camel had their own independent tournament pedigree, why did they need to share setups/ships/tactics with Warlords?
Because they needed to practice against a top tier team in order to prepare themselves for the AT.

As a result they put out an amazing performance throughout the competition.

Since it clearly works, why knock it?

MissBolyai wrote:
Trust me, I am the official spokesman for PL.
And I'm the Sultan Of Brunei.
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Goonswarm Federation
#145 - 2015-09-17 14:43:41 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
MissBolyai wrote:
if Camel had their own independent tournament pedigree, why did they need to share setups/ships/tactics with Warlords?
Because they needed to practice against a top tier team in order to prepare themselves for the AT.

Practice against? or Collude with?

We'll leave the decision on that to CCP, but those logs and the information that's come out since DHB's post are pretty damning.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#146 - 2015-09-17 14:51:51 UTC
MissBolyai wrote:
Practice against? or Collude with?

You told me they didn't need to collude to win. But I'm pretty sure everyone can do with some practice before a tournament.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#147 - 2015-09-17 14:57:51 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Literally all you pl people are on about is camel and warlords/hydra beeing 1 team, that isnt the issue, never was the issue and is totally legal. Its all about if they turned their bo3 into a bo1 or not and if the finals were legit.



I guess you weren't around for the Drama Lama when Waffles tried to enter the tournament for the first time were you.....


Who cares about that, its specifically says that what they did, bar the actual match fixing and gentlemans rules, i.e beeing 1 team, training together, trading ships, trading setups, splitting pizes and so on is 100% legal.



So, basically, everything they did was OK, EXCEPT the part where they cheated

But that is OK, we shouldn't worry about that part, look at everything they did that was OK??
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Goonswarm Federation
#148 - 2015-09-17 15:00:47 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
MissBolyai wrote:
Practice against? or Collude with?

You told me they didn't need to collude to win. But I'm pretty sure everyone can do with some practice before a tournament.

C'mon man.
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Goonswarm Federation
#149 - 2015-09-17 15:03:27 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
MissBolyai wrote:
Practice against? or Collude with?

You told me they didn't need to collude to win. But I'm pretty sure everyone can do with some practice before a tournament.

To make a sports analogy at the risk of you not getting it: The New England Patriots didn't need to cheat to get to the Super Bowl last year, but they did. That doesn't mean it is ok/legal.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#150 - 2015-09-17 15:18:17 UTC
You're entirely welcome to take everything I say out of context if you wish, but it's not going to lead to any meaningful debate on the issues.

And as I have already said, I wasn't present when the alleged events took place, so I can't attest either way.

If you've got any actual evidence, feel free to share it with the rest of us.
MissBolyai
ElitistOps
Goonswarm Federation
#151 - 2015-09-17 15:22:59 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
You're entirely welcome to take everything I say out of context if you wish, but it's not going to lead to any meaningful debate on the issues.

And as I have already said, I wasn't present when the alleged events took place, so I can't attest either way.

If you've got any actual evidence, feel free to share it with the rest of us.

We will continue to leave that to CCP. The court of public opinion has already spoken, as little sway as that might hold.
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#152 - 2015-09-17 16:35:03 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Literally all you pl people are on about is camel and warlords/hydra beeing 1 team, that isnt the issue, never was the issue and is totally legal. Its all about if they turned their bo3 into a bo1 or not and if the finals were legit.



I guess you weren't around for the Drama Lama when Waffles tried to enter the tournament for the first time were you.....


Who cares about that, its specifically says that what they did, bar the actual match fixing and gentlemans rules, i.e beeing 1 team, training together, trading ships, trading setups, splitting pizes and so on is 100% legal.



So, basically, everything they did was OK, EXCEPT the part where they cheated

But that is OK, we shouldn't worry about that part, look at everything they did that was OK??


Im not saying that, if they fixed matches i want them banned. Im saying a lot of pl guys are claiming that the working together as 1 team part is basicely the bad thing, but it is of no matter at all.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#153 - 2015-09-17 17:17:56 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Literally all you pl people are on about is camel and warlords/hydra beeing 1 team, that isnt the issue, never was the issue and is totally legal. Its all about if they turned their bo3 into a bo1 or not and if the finals were legit.



I guess you weren't around for the Drama Lama when Waffles tried to enter the tournament for the first time were you.....


Who cares about that, its specifically says that what they did, bar the actual match fixing and gentlemans rules, i.e beeing 1 team, training together, trading ships, trading setups, splitting pizes and so on is 100% legal.



So, basically, everything they did was OK, EXCEPT the part where they cheated

But that is OK, we shouldn't worry about that part, look at everything they did that was OK??


Im not saying that, if they fixed matches i want them banned. Im saying a lot of pl guys are claiming that the working together as 1 team part is basicely the bad thing, but it is of no matter at all.



I have consistently said working together is within the rules, even sharign ships and setups is fine within the rules

What I have also said is the first time Waffles went for the tournament, everyone threw a fit and the 2 teams couldn't even talk to one another from the time practice started until the AT was over.....Now, the rules have changed over the years relaxing that a bit, but we have stayed the course to eliminate any sense of impropriety, yet hydra/Warlords/Camel have basically laughed at us and cheated (Once for sure, twice we will find out soon)


Lovey Dovey
Doomheim
#154 - 2015-09-17 17:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lovey Dovey
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


Im not saying that, if they fixed matches i want them banned. Im saying a lot of pl guys are claiming that the working together as 1 team part is basicely the bad thing, but it is of no matter at all.


Actually that is part of the overarching problem with regards to how CCP are enforcing the rules that contributed to the current situation. For example: Waffles were denied entrance into the AT for years because they were affiliated with PL, despite having their own logistics support, financial independence, and so forth. The reason they were told they couldn't initially join the AT, and later were told they couldn't practices, share comps, or ships with PL's team, was because of the concern they would collude. Following Hydra's antics in ATIX, Waffles were permitted to compete but there were allegations they would collude and thus were told they couldn't coordinate with PL with regards to AT practices, logistics, etc.

Later on in another AT you then have two teams competing comprised of Hydra members & corps (some of whom rejoined Hydra after the tournament, like Genos Occidere who up until January were also in Camel) openly say they're sharing logistics, fleet comps, tactics, & even AT ships. It's sort of silly to have CCP say "you guys can't do this, but you guys can" and think that's any semblance of equal application of the rules. The ability to share ships, tactics, and logistics is one of the problems CCP needs to address with regards to how the AT is ran since this whole "A & B Team" situation contributed to the alleged match fixing that this thread is a result of.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#155 - 2015-09-17 17:41:45 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Kenneth Feld wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Literally all you pl people are on about is camel and warlords/hydra beeing 1 team, that isnt the issue, never was the issue and is totally legal. Its all about if they turned their bo3 into a bo1 or not and if the finals were legit.



I guess you weren't around for the Drama Lama when Waffles tried to enter the tournament for the first time were you.....


Who cares about that, its specifically says that what they did, bar the actual match fixing and gentlemans rules, i.e beeing 1 team, training together, trading ships, trading setups, splitting pizes and so on is 100% legal.



So, basically, everything they did was OK, EXCEPT the part where they cheated

But that is OK, we shouldn't worry about that part, look at everything they did that was OK??


Im not saying that, if they fixed matches i want them banned. Im saying a lot of pl guys are claiming that the working together as 1 team part is basicely the bad thing, but it is of no matter at all.


again, its not against the rules, that doesnt mean it isnt goddamn stupid and should be stopped. If youre working together as one team, you should be one team, not one team with a much higher chance of winning.

If you really want to play that game, how many teams do you recon PL could field this way if we wanted to go all douchey like hydra? Do you really want us to ruin the tournament because it's not 'technically against the rules?'
RoCkEt X
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#156 - 2015-09-17 19:14:38 UTC
EHRMAGERD DRAMA LLAMA
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#157 - 2015-09-17 19:58:32 UTC
Hail Hydra Cool

source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1356138#post1356138

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF

Yazoul Samaiel
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#158 - 2015-09-18 09:35:32 UTC
Oh dear such Drama.


On the other hand goons whining about something they are terrible at as always LolLol


Maybe CCP should also nerf the tourney and make a spelling contest or something that goons might win at Lol although that would be doubtful as well.
Javeeik
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#159 - 2015-09-18 13:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Javeeik
Quote:
Im not saying that, if they fixed matches i want them banned. Im saying a lot of pl guys are claiming that the working together as 1 team part is basicely the bad thing, but it is of no matter at all.


Quote:
again, its not against the rules, that doesnt mean it isnt goddamn stupid and should be stopped. If youre working together as one team, you should be one team, not one team with a much higher chance of winning.

If you really want to play that game, how many teams do you recon PL could field this way if we wanted to go all douchey like hydra? Do you really want us to ruin the tournament because it's not 'technically against the rules?'



Are you reading a different reply to me somehow? I dont understand how you arrived at this response? the only point wolf is making is that this discussion should soley revolve around the allogation they predetermined a result.

This:

Quote:

Actually that is part of the overarching problem with regards to how CCP are enforcing the rules that contributed to the current situation. For example: Waffles were denied entrance into the AT for years because they were affiliated with PL, despite having their own logistics support, financial independence, and so forth. The reason they were told they couldn't initially join the AT, and later were told they couldn't practices, share comps, or ships with PL's team, was because of the concern they would collude. Following Hydra's antics in ATIX, Waffles were permitted to compete but there were allegations they would collude and thus were told they couldn't coordinate with PL with regards to AT practices, logistics, etc.

Later on in another AT you then have two teams competing comprised of Hydra members & corps (some of whom rejoined Hydra after the tournament, like Genos Occidere who up until January were also in Camel) openly say they're sharing logistics, fleet comps, tactics, & even AT ships. It's sort of silly to have CCP say "you guys can't do this, but you guys can" and think that's any semblance of equal application of the rules. The ability to share ships, tactics, and logistics is one of the problems CCP needs to address with regards to how the AT is ran since this whole "A & B Team" situation contributed to the alleged match fixing that this thread is a result of.


Is a good point, but thats something for another year and a seperate issue CCP need to either address or not as they see fit.
Lovey Dovey
Doomheim
#160 - 2015-09-18 17:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lovey Dovey
Yazoul Samaiel wrote:
On the other hand goons whining about something they are terrible at as always


Hi, Yaz.

Why'd you get purged from PL?

Javeeik wrote:

This:

Is a good point, but thats something for another year and a seperate issue CCP need to either address or not as they see fit.


Not really. It's a contributing factor to this current situation. CCP allowed a team to run an A & B team setup, share all sorts of assets & logistics, and so forth. That in turn is part of why the pre-arranged matches that are being alleged came about, the close proximity of two teams working together and sharing assets.

It's not as bad as when these same players involved in this issue thought having Hydra & Outbreak being in a singular corp on Sisi during testing for a previous AT was a totally OK thing to do. CCP banned them from competing that year when they found out, so we all know how well that works. These are all symptoms of the same problem; you shouldn't be allowed to field multiple teams from the same alliance solely for the AT, let alone be allowed to share everything under the sun save for pilots. Realistically, this is an issue CCP needs to address and prevent now rather than in a year.

Hell, there's even the insinuation that Garmon,who was supposedly permabanned for RMT, was logging in on an alt to play which is against the EULA/TOS when it comes to bypassing bans issued by CCP. Which if true, is comically dumb of Hydra to do.

In short, Hydra/Camels/Warlords knew they were cheating, got caught breaking AT rules for an alleged third time and are confused why they're not being coddled by CCP.