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Dev blog: Citadels, sieges and you v2

First post
Author
Alexander Tekitsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#121 - 2015-09-17 20:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander Tekitsu
Thank you for taking the time to listen to the players about this. It's definitely moving in a good direction now and finally getting back to having to risk something of value while being on the offensive. With an XL structure being capable of housing Titans, Supers and all kinds of other lovelies, you better be ready to commit your capitals or fleet.

Quote:
How are you going to prevent a single kiting sniper from applying damage constantly to prolong the repair timer until you have to go to sleep?


Undock in a Tier3 Battlecruiser, there be cormorant bits everywhere. Shooting it just pauses the repair, it doesn't restart it ( unless I read this wrong )
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#122 - 2015-09-17 20:55:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Sorry but this is ridiculously complicated. I began to think of that Black Books tax return scene (http://youtu.be/rtxUdbNKpK0) - "If you live in a council flat, next to a river, but are not blind..."

This is not intuitive.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#123 - 2015-09-17 21:04:37 UTC
Alexander Tekitsu wrote:


Undock in a Tier3 Battlecruiser, there be cormorant bits everywhere. Shooting it just pauses the repair, it doesn't restart it ( unless I read this wrong )

Or just have the station shoot back... Seriously why is dumb stations even considered a thing.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Rhyad Ashon
Rocket Beans Inc
Combat Wombat.
#124 - 2015-09-17 21:05:02 UTC
Yes, please make it even more simpler Zappity!! Roll

Are all assets locked after the first timer (WH)? If thats not the case, the new system is even safer than the current one. I can't understand the complains about the lack of a magic ferry.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-09-17 21:32:18 UTC
I like the concept, because it's EvE-like! ... now scrap the Entosis-links, because the reasons why you don't want to have them for structures also apply to sov.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#126 - 2015-09-17 22:12:19 UTC
Mdaemon wrote:
Obil Que wrote:

There is no interaction between an attacking fleet and a group who is offline and sleeping while you attack their structure.
Timers and windows work the increase the likelyhood of content for both sides by allowing the defender to pick the engagement time and the attacker choosing to engage during that time.


1. There is no interaction between citadel's owner and enemy fleet, if citadel vulnerable only 3 hours in week
2. How huge fleet needed to destroy citadel with more than 1 billion effective HP (if will be 99.9% omniresist instead full invulnerability)? You need a lot of interactions to organize such a large fleet



Hmmm... I don't know about that cowboy. If you were to shoot at my citadel, I would be obliged to give your fleet a bloody nose and a GF in local after you were cap blopped. Is that interaction enough for you?

Yes it will require effort. You know what that is right? It means you have to earn the kill! It also means you will have to use some form of intelligence, and I'm not talking about corp spies either. I am speaking of intellect. You know, the mush that resides between your ears. Use it to plan an effective attack, defensive posture, ingress, egress, things like that. Used properly, it will work, used as a vodka sponge, it may not work so well.

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2015-09-17 22:17:00 UTC
Glad to see (tacit) acknowledgement that the Entosis Link in it's present form has failed, and I look forward to something more like this applied to the existing sovereignty mechanics. There probably is a place for Entosis in the game but not as a replacement for firepower.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#128 - 2015-09-17 22:20:03 UTC
Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.



As a wormholer, this is absolutely not okay and I if no one else will raise hell over it. Why is wormhole space special in that we alone get to deal with the risk of total asset loss while everyone else gets their stuff magically spirited away to safety? All that is going to do is incentivize people in nullsec (whose assets are safe and unattackable) to attack wormholes for the loot. Not only that, but there's absolutely no counterplay, we can't go attack nullseccers and blow up their ****, its safe. We're getting this huge risk that no one else will have to shoulder, and what do we get out of it? Nothing. We can't hit them back, their assets are untouchable. We don't get sov and it's benefits. This feels like the real **** end of the **** stick.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
G0N3 F1SS10N
#129 - 2015-09-17 22:25:04 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.



As a wormholer, this is absolutely not okay and I if no one else will raise hell over it. Why is wormhole space special in that we alone get to deal with the risk of total asset loss while everyone else gets their stuff magically spirited away to safety? All that is going to do is incentivize people in nullsec (whose assets are safe and unattackable) to attack wormholes for the loot. Not only that, but there's absolutely no counterplay, we can't go attack nullseccers and blow up their ****, its safe. We're getting this huge risk that no one else will have to shoulder, and what do we get out of it? Nothing. We can't hit them back, their assets are untouchable. We don't get sov and it's benefits. This feels like the real **** end of the **** stick.


A very good question.

I suspect the reason is this: what motivation is there to attack the structure if the contents do not drop? Then again, why would someone do that to a Citadel from High Sec to Null Sec as their stuff is safe as well? This spins it back to: WHY is wormhole space the exception to this?

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.

Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#130 - 2015-09-17 22:27:26 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Glad to see (tacit) acknowledgement that the Entosis Link in it's present form has failed, and I look forward to something more like this applied to the existing sovereignty mechanics. There probably is a place for Entosis in the game but not as a replacement for firepower.


Agree 100%
As long as I can remember, Eve was centered around the use of spacecraft and their ability to project firepower to combat enemies. Not some ethereal mind control device from a mythical race of beings ( okay, maybe not mythical, but extinct? ). Nothing beats a good ole knock down and drag out bar brawl.Big smile

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#131 - 2015-09-17 22:28:16 UTC
Still haven't seen anything related to other structures.

Have you guys scrapped the plans to have various different structures of which citadels are only one type designed to be highly dependable? Are citadels going to be the only type of structure (essentially replacing POSes), defensible but highly customizable with no other stuff like market hubs or manufacturing structures or are citadels just the pet project getting all the love while other structure types are coming out and we might, eventually get so see previews of those in a devblog?
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#132 - 2015-09-17 22:28:50 UTC
Loving what you guys are doing with space chateaux.

However, I feel there is still room for improvement on the blinky bits. We're going to need a lot more blinkies to turn on.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword

Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
#133 - 2015-09-17 22:35:39 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Saede Riordan wrote:
Quote:
We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our “I feel safe in Citadel city” blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold.



As a wormholer, this is absolutely not okay and I if no one else will raise hell over it. Why is wormhole space special in that we alone get to deal with the risk of total asset loss while everyone else gets their stuff magically spirited away to safety? All that is going to do is incentivize people in nullsec (whose assets are safe and unattackable) to attack wormholes for the loot. Not only that, but there's absolutely no counterplay, we can't go attack nullseccers and blow up their ****, its safe. We're getting this huge risk that no one else will have to shoulder, and what do we get out of it? Nothing. We can't hit them back, their assets are untouchable. We don't get sov and it's benefits. This feels like the real **** end of the **** stick.


A very good question.

I suspect the reason is this: what motivation is there to attack the structure if the contents do not drop? Then again, why would someone do that to a Citadel from High Sec to Null Sec as their stuff is safe as well? This spins it back to: WHY is wormhole space the exception to this?


The way I see it, it's to try and make wormhole space different. But that's stupid, you can't just make something different for the hell of it, there has to be a real reason.

I for one, want the asset safety system torched and everyone's **** to be at some level of risk. This is EVE not candyland online. However, I know the nullbears and the like will spray salty tear hoses all over everything if their precious stuff is at risk at all, so that might not be feasible from a monetary perspective.

However, it needs to be fair. Either everyone's assets should be safe, or no one's should. All this will do is depopulate wormhole space since it will be the only place your assets aren't safe. Who's going to want to live there? You could just live in null and do day-trips from your nullsec citadel with its magical bowel evacuation system.

Best solution, dev's tell the nullbears to harden the **** up and make all citadels drop loot.
Second best solution, make everyone's assets safe and deal with having little incentive to attack anyone's towers since you can't crack it open for its tasty innards.

But this? This isn't a solution at all. This is a huge steaming turd dropped on the wormhole community. This incentivizes people to attack us wormholers for our stuff, and NO ONE ELSE, since their stuff will be safe. Wormhole space will die a slow and agonizing death if this goes through. No one is going to want to live in the one place in EVE where their stuff isn't safe in a station.
Camios
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2015-09-17 22:36:49 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Tobias Frank wrote:
Looks promising!

Also, will we get docking scenes in the new citadels as we have now in stations/outposts when we are docked? Ship spinning is an important feature!


No docking scene. When you dock, the camera will be centred around the structure instead, so you can now play structure spinning.



This is good. Actually I think that the current form of docking is stupid. It makes you fell cosy and warm, but actually you totally lose contact with the space around you, and you also loose situation awareness. All services provided by a station should be accessible while looking outside.

There are a few concerns though:

1. I need anyway a clear way of seeing what ship I am in, or at least which ship I am going to undock in
2. People possibly like the cosiness of hangars? When you are docked, you should feel safe. I think the new "docked state" visuals should convey that impression of safety.

Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
#135 - 2015-09-17 23:22:43 UTC
This all sounds thoroughly sensible and should lead to some interesting fights all over New Eden.
Circumstantial Evidence
#136 - 2015-09-18 00:19:41 UTC
Saede Riordan wrote:
...However, it needs to be fair. Either everyone's assets should be safe, or no one's should. All this will do is depopulate wormhole space since it will be the only place your assets aren't safe. Who's going to want to live there?
WH assets aren't safe today, and folks live out of POS's there. I see expensive ship hanger KM's on a regular basis.

Null-sec'ers make day raids all the time, but most return to their home outpost after making what mess they can, rather than camp in system for the required time to finish a POS.

I thought the magic of asset relocation would be reserved to XL citadels, but after re-reading the original asset blog, it seems to cover all sizes. Have I missed an update / reading it wrong?

If there is a problem which needs fixing, I think K-Space getting a new protection it didn't have before, in the citadel sizes which will replace existing POS's - is it. Rather than helping WH, consider reducing the amount of asset protection in K-Space ;)

What if the "M" or even the "L" size were not covered by the asset relocation feature in K-Space? Perhaps the "L" size could offer "partial asset relocation?"
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#137 - 2015-09-18 00:26:02 UTC
Ok, so using an entosis link or shooting it really means about the same thing to me (sit in spot X doing Y for Z amount of time), however the fact that this mechanic still seems to be mostly intact is foreshadowing to the capital changes. It almost seems as though it's being kept around for the sake of the classes themselves, which means to me that the changes are going to continue to revolve around massive amounts of HP abilities (damage, hit points, and repair), which I thought was the biggest separator and cause of imbalance for the largest of ships. Needing to create special rules and exceptions and discouraging certain interactions because of the vast differences. I really just took a blow of confidence in the changes themselves, and I'm hoping I'm just overthinking this.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#138 - 2015-09-18 00:28:25 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
I thought the magic of asset relocation would be reserved to XL citadels, but after re-reading the original asset blog, it seems to cover all sizes. Have I missed an update / reading it wrong?

Same question here. I figured XL was a replacement for outposts and at least kept a portion of the status quo intact.
Godess Superior
Perkone
Caldari State
#139 - 2015-09-18 00:30:32 UTC
Question!

Not sure if it has be said or asked.

Will Citadels still get guns/ewar? As while not really a threat to large fleets. They do put hurt on anything trying to troll it.

Or

If mooring is gone what happens to supers/Titan docked inside the Cit?
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#140 - 2015-09-18 00:30:43 UTC
Assets destroyed in wormholes, thats awesome for market effects following up on big booms, since aliance need to restock ASAP, that will disrupt markets everywhere, awesome! :D

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-