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Mining, Just a waste of time?

Author
Keno Skir
#21 - 2012-01-04 11:56:44 UTC
Bots have ruined mining. If you want mining to be worth it again ever, put some pressure on CCP to do something about botters.
Tiberius Sunstealer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-01-04 11:59:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Sunstealer
Battle On wrote:
i even think that if we go on like this, that there wont even be miners in the future

I, for one, welcome this new change when it happens. I will then go on a mining operation for an hour, sell my minerals for 1,000 ISK per Tritanium and sit back with enough ISK to never warrant me playing EVE again (unless I want space PVP).
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#23 - 2012-01-04 12:02:53 UTC
Arcathra wrote:
Working as intended.

Mining is the profession with the lowest risk (in most cases) and therefore has the lowest revenue.
Mission running is a bit better, because there is more risk involved.
Incursions are even more risky so you get the best payouts.

Mining and missioning can be done alone. For Incursions you need a reliable fleet that doesn't break or blow up and in many cases an expensive ship and good skills, so you may not be able to do so much ISK per hour constantly and need a lot of time until you can start to do them effectively. Even with missions you can be unlucky sometimes and to do them fast you have to invest a lot of ISK in your ships, too.

By the way, mineral prices are not that bad at the moment, havn't seen them rise as much for a while.

The bottom line is, do what is the most fun for you. There are people who enjoy mining even with a revenue that low. Other people like to make as much ISK per hour as possible. To each their own.


There is that risk word again.

As pointed out you can be popped in a hulk with 10 mill ships. That won't happen in a mission Domi or Raven but because a rat is locking you that has no chance in hell of blowing you up it's "risk".

Nope, CCP like the carebear dollars, they just don't want to address anything in the game that doesn't directly cater to the PvP bears.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-01-04 12:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Destination SkillQueue
Battle On wrote:
McLuckz wrote:
Don't mine it now costs 10 mil to gank a hulk.


true, people can easily afford ganks now if they wanna ruin newcomers lives.


This would be less of an issue, if mining would earn you more, so you could afford more losses. It would also help, if there were more ways/mechanics that created opportunities to attack juicy targets. With broken wardecs and logistics having little need to use the gate system, there is increasing pressure pushing more people towards suicide ganks. Fix the income issue and releave the pressure towards suicide ganks and it would cease to be an issue.

PS. Mining is not working as intended. It's not supposed to rival incursion farming, but it's supposed to provide a decent income for people who specialize in it. Currently it doesn't because other sources of minerals are so abundant, that unless they are nerfed or removed entirely, mining will always be crap even if you get rid of every bot and no matter how much you alter mining as an activity.
Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#25 - 2012-01-04 12:08:52 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Arcathra wrote:
Working as intended.

Mining is the profession with the lowest risk (in most cases) and therefore has the lowest revenue.
Mission running is a bit better, because there is more risk involved.
Incursions are even more risky so you get the best payouts.

Mining and missioning can be done alone. For Incursions you need a reliable fleet that doesn't break or blow up and in many cases an expensive ship and good skills, so you may not be able to do so much ISK per hour constantly and need a lot of time until you can start to do them effectively. Even with missions you can be unlucky sometimes and to do them fast you have to invest a lot of ISK in your ships, too.

By the way, mineral prices are not that bad at the moment, havn't seen them rise as much for a while.

The bottom line is, do what is the most fun for you. There are people who enjoy mining even with a revenue that low. Other people like to make as much ISK per hour as possible. To each their own.


There is that risk word again.

As pointed out you can be popped in a hulk with 10 mill ships. That won't happen in a mission Domi or Raven but because a rat is locking you that has no chance in hell of blowing you up it's "risk".

Nope, CCP like the carebear dollars, they just don't want to address anything in the game that doesn't directly cater to the PvP bears.

I know that Hulks can be ganked easily. I'm not against giving them some more powergrid to tank a bit more.
But to be honest, I don't think there is a big issue with gankers. We know how they operate, we know what ships they use, we can choose where we mine and when. I think the preceived risk is a lot higher than the real risk.

By the way, I'm also a miner, not exclusively but I like it from time to time.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#26 - 2012-01-04 12:10:00 UTC
Incursions farmers vs miners, man you never know what industry job is the money maker really. Wonder how research compares to those two.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#27 - 2012-01-04 12:10:29 UTC
I think you should focus on other things... Lol (More roids for me)

/c

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Arcathra
Technodyne Ltd.
#28 - 2012-01-04 12:13:41 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:

PS. Mining is not working as intended. It's not supposed to rival incursion farming, but it's supposed to provide a decent income for people who specialize in it. Currently it doesn't because other sources of minerals are so abundant, that unless they are nerfed or removed entirely, mining will always be crap even if you get rid of every bot or no matter how much you alter mining as an activity.

Okay, you are right. Other sources of minerals should be revamped or removed.
Valei Khurelem
#29 - 2012-01-04 12:14:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Get rid of acceleration gates in missions and then I might consider not mining, they're just an abysmal time sink that I refuse to be a part of.

Think about all the other tactics that game devs use as well to force players to have to walk that bit further, long hallways, invisible walls, pointless barricades that divert you the long way to your objective, it's all the same. I don't think I've played a game in ages where you just get one straight hallway without something either blocking your path or forcing you to go the other way.

My personal favourite is when you played Dragon Age and you always had to travel through long winding tunnels that had different side tunnels as well as a main one which didn't go in one direction making it very difficult at times to navigate through without getting lost because the maps were designed ****.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-01-04 12:26:13 UTC
Remove Hulks and seed minerals from NPC at outrageously high prices in stupidly massive amounts to prevent market manipulation, problem solved (trit for 100 isk, f*ck yeah EVE would get real harsh to the gankers Twisted) . Damn ships should never of been in EVE, stupid pointless waste of time spent skilling for months for something thats destroyed in less then 30 seconds, target of consistant harrassment for the miner, and its just an easy kill like stuffing a sock in your pants to pad your KM. Nothing stops people from destroying them because the incentive of the KM is so worth it to some people, yet there isn't a real enough incentive for the miner to fly a hulk at all.
Dane El
Negative Density
#31 - 2012-01-04 12:39:40 UTC
Mining is a waste of time. I find it interesting you ever thought it was worthwhile.

And I like the justification that missions make more because they're "riskier." It's easier to AFK a mission in my domi than it is to AFK mine. I can walk away for far longer and have far more isk when I return. Although I haven't spent a lot of time on either activity, I'm at 1 hulk suicide ganked, nobody has ever attempted to gank my mission boat. Missions are safer than mining as long as you take the time to know the mission and run it well.
TuonelanOrja
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-01-04 12:48:28 UTC
Dane El wrote:
Mining is a waste of time. I find it interesting you ever thought it was worthwhile.

And I like the justification that missions make more because they're "riskier." It's easier to AFK a mission in my domi than it is to AFK mine. I can walk away for far longer and have far more isk when I return. Although I haven't spent a lot of time on either activity, I'm at 1 hulk suicide ganked, nobody has ever attempted to gank my mission boat. Missions are safer than mining as long as you take the time to know the mission and run it well.

How does someone's mining waste your time?

Not a veteran, just bitter..

Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-01-04 13:00:42 UTC
There are a couple reasons why mining is terrible.

Bots mine 24/7 365 days a year. I hear that when people are caught botting they get a final warning. They then sell the charicter and buy a new one, the new one has a fresh warning, after a few months they get caught again and just repeat the process. I have purchased a charicter that was probably used for HS botting at some point. Industry 5, mining 5, refining 5, veldspar processing 5, exhumers 5. I hate mining and bought the char for its other skills.

I live in wormholes and we frequently pop out in a nullsec that is in the middle of noware with only 2 people in local. Often these people are bots and the just log straght off. Sometimes they are mining bots other times they are ratting bots. Most of the time they are russian.

CCP are surely aware of which accounts are botting. From the other players perspective it would be good if CCP insta banned these accounts but thats not a good business model. They would lose alot of revenue in doing this.

The other reason people dont mine is because incursions are 99% safe, have high income and are really really easy. As somewon else said. Why would you spend 10 hours mining minerals when you can do incursions for 1 hour and buy them all?

Somewon said they mine for free minerals, minerals are only free if your time is worthless....
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#34 - 2012-01-04 13:07:33 UTC
Arcathra wrote:
I know that Hulks can be ganked easily. I'm not against giving them some more powergrid to tank a bit more.
But to be honest, I don't think there is a big issue with gankers. We know how they operate, we know what ships they use, we can choose where we mine and when. I think the preceived risk is a lot higher than the real risk.

By the way, I'm also a miner, not exclusively but I like it from time to time.


They should be buffed, I agree.

The risk in EVE is to undock. After that it's pot luck what meathead you might run in to in game.

The idea that any ship would be made with no combat and defense capability in a game that clearly sells itself as a PvP game was either a deliberate oversight or one of apathy.

Hulks and Macki are a T2 Hulls that cost 200 Mill to put on the field, compare to a HIC, HAC or any other T2 Cruiser, they have the tank of a weather baloon. They could buff barge tanks by 500% and they still don't have any dps. People in Low sec and null sec will still lose them if they are crazy enough to take them there, it will just take a little longer.

So many ships in EVE "designed" assuming the enemy won't do any of the things the enemy would do.

Means we are on the topic, I'd like to be able to transfer from cargo bay to cargo bay, stop roping noobs in to jet can traps that have no purpose but to accomodate a griefer.
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#35 - 2012-01-04 13:10:15 UTC
McLuckz wrote:
Don't mine it now costs 10 mil to gank a hulk.


2-4 Destroyers don't cost 10 mil...
Luh Windan
green fish hat bang bang
#36 - 2012-01-04 13:15:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Luh Windan
of course mining is not very profitable. This isn't even a surprise. The economics of the behaviour of miners tells us that it won't be.

There are loads of people doing it. You don't try to kill each other (reduce the supply and control your own production to give you an edge) and you compete to sell it rather than price fixing.

Mining is basically a race to the bottom.

it has nothing to do with being ganked (in fact if it wasn't you that got popped you should be happy -your competition has just taken a hit giving you a slight advantage) OR botters. ( Botters *are* your competition but only in the same way as your fellow miners and you are *all* f*king each other over by not price fixing)

The oil industry spotted this and setup OPEC to artificially reduce supply and keep prices high. Worth reading up about if you are a miner.

EDIT: This thread is full of people blaming utterly predictable market behaviour on Bots. It's depressingly reminiscent of politicians blaming all our woes in immigrants to distract people from the real issues.....
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#37 - 2012-01-04 13:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Mining is something you can do while being AFK. Low risk, low yield.

Ratting and anom jewing is more hands on, but can still be done while AFK. Ratting nyx any1? Medium risk, medium yield.

Incursions are not an AFK activity. Higher risk, higher yield.

Then again, its all relative.

I can saddle up all my accounts and go ice mining in hisec, making around 72 mil or so for being afk for an hour.

That same fleet will pull in 50 mil an hour mining veld.

Or I could try my luck and use them all to jew incursions and make billions in a few hours.

But why even bother with grinding for isk online via mining or ratting or agents, when I can just setup PI on each account, pull in multiple billions per month, setup a tower or two and spam BPCs that also net me billions per month for being OFFLINE?

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Dbars Grinding
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#38 - 2012-01-04 13:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dbars Grinding
McLuckz wrote:
Don't mine it now costs 10 mil to gank a hulk.



no

I have more space likes than you. 

1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-01-04 13:40:25 UTC
Arcathra wrote:
Working as intended.

Mining is the profession with the lowest risk (in most cases) and therefore has the lowest revenue.

Actually today, it's probably got the highest risk of getting your ship blown up Lol
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LordSwift
Wrabble Wrousers
#40 - 2012-01-04 13:42:16 UTC
ok how would this be a boost to mining :-

CCP have mentioned in the past that they were keen on introducing asteroid fields and minable comets. This has not seen the light of day yet.
But in the mean time how about as a little boost to mining by making Good ore appear in exploration i.e a,b,c ores. enough in a site to improve the profits of miners perhaps in line with missions.

Thoughts?

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